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Why should you convert your Saiga?


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#31 jmacken37

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 01:07 PM

Excellent write up.

I'd add to the list that converting NOW is a good idea.

The new AW ban that I expect we'll see after the mid term elections COULD make future converting illegal.

Jake

#32 Citypol86

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 07:43 AM

Excellent write up.

I'd add to the list that converting NOW is a good idea.

The new AW ban that I expect we'll see after the mid term elections COULD make future converting illegal.

Jake

Has anyone had problems with the as-imported setup? I disagree with all these B.S. gun laws but why convert just to do it? I'm not concerned with the looks of the gun, I just want a functioning, reliable, magazine-feed, eat-anything, inexpensive shotgun. I know that's a lot to ask but that's what I want. Also, how's the accuracy with slugs/sabots at, say, 100 to 125 yds.? Anyone really shoot with these guns?
Thanks in advance,
Later...
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ferro ignique gesta res

#33 Citypol86

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 09:17 PM

... Anyone really shoot with these guns?

...guess not...
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#34 post-apocalyptic

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 09:38 PM

I haven't tested mine with slugs at 100 yards yet. At 50 yards, accuracy with slugs is suprisingly high.

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#35 Twinsen

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 01:48 AM

Excellent write up.

I'd add to the list that converting NOW is a good idea.

The new AW ban that I expect we'll see after the mid term elections COULD make future converting illegal.

Jake

Has anyone had problems with the as-imported setup? I disagree with all these B.S. gun laws but why convert just to do it? I'm not concerned with the looks of the gun, I just want a functioning, reliable, magazine-feed, eat-anything, inexpensive shotgun. I know that's a lot to ask but that's what I want. Also, how's the accuracy with slugs/sabots at, say, 100 to 125 yds.? Anyone really shoot with these guns?
Thanks in advance,
Later...
Brewster...


So I made this big write up and I guess you ignored it.

And yes, nobody that owns an AK shoots it. AK's are all safe queens. That's why we went out and bought a $200 gun, to not shoot it.
I might end up being around a lot more.
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#36 Citypol86

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 09:48 AM

So I made this big write up and I guess you ignored it.

And yes, nobody that owns an AK shoots it. AK's are all safe queens. That's why we went out and bought a $200 gun, to not shoot it.

Yes, I read your "big write up(sic)" but I was looking for a bit... more. If your AK is a safe queen, that's nice. If it's not, that's nice, too.
Post-Ap.- Thanks, that's the type of response I was hoping for.

Later...
Brewster...

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#37 Twinsen

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 04:19 PM

This whole thing was about why to convert. It's not just for looks or whatever you thought by saying "but why convert just to do it? I'm not concerned with the looks of the gun". It's to make the gun what it is supposed to be, what every other country gets to have.
I might end up being around a lot more.
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#38 fhrzr1

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 10:46 PM

OK, let me see if I have this right.

If I have a factory Saiga 12 with the threaded barrel, I can replace the following parts with
American made parts and it would be in compliance with 922r

1. American made muzzle break
2. American made folding Buttstock with pistol grip (ACE)
3. American made Forearm, handguard
4. American made high capacity magazine

Am I correct.

Thank you guys

#39 IVsamhell

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 10:28 PM

As far as how it improves your gun, yes, those benefits are the same. The trigger on all of these guns is funky in order to be imported legally.

But as far as I know, California is the only state where a converted Saiga rifle would be illegal. In CT, 7.62x39 AKs are illegal in any form, but .223 and .308 ones can be bought and converted.

I believe for 922r compliance you need to replace the FCG with the 3 American parts, and:
~Replace 2 of the following with American parts: pistol grip, hand guard, stock, muzzle device
or
~Use only American magazines



Not true. In CA we have adopted the "Mag Lock" for all of our rifle with evil features. If you have to use a tool to drop the magazine it is no longer considered detachable. We just can't have more than a 10 round mag attached to said evil rifle or it is then an assault rifle.

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

#40 frick

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 11:28 AM

Citypol, from my experience, take the easy way out, and just put an ACE or a Tapco pistol grip conversion on the shotgun, and add the additional needed parts to make it legal.

This is a shotgun, not a target rifle, and this repeated claim that the trigger pull is lousy just doesn't fly with me, if you are used to shooting military rifles with long slow trigger pull the Saiga series as is, is no worse, especially if you compare it to some vintage firearms.

I have also heard a "Balance" argument, but, it kind seem moots to be concerned about "balance" when you have a 12 round, 18" long magazine sticking out the bottom, or, have a 5 pound, 20 round drum hanging out of it.

The other thing is that the conversion, places the shotgun firmly in non sporting configuration.

IF, there is ever a push to make pistol grip Saiga's illegal, or to regulate them as a destructive device, in 10 minutes, an ACE or Tapco stock can be removed, and sans a high cap mag, you are back to sporting legality, it may not matter if that IS the case, but, better a fugly gun in your hand, than a buried gun in the ground.

Also bear in mind, there is mindset here of "My way or the highway", expect that attacks to get personal if you don't stay with the herd and do it their way.

The Saiga is a really interesting platform to play with, but, there is more than one way to go about converting the rifle and getting good results.

Oh, for the record, not even Russian civilians get pistol grip Saigas, they weren't placed into that configuration only to get them into the US.

Russian civilians are not allowed to own weapons that use magazines interchangeable with those used by the military, thats why the Saiga rifles have the feed ramp built into the magazine, they came up with a solution that they could sell internally, without as much fear that the public could own basically, an AK 47 or some variant thereof.

Interesting that the Russkies seem not to trust the free people even more than our governments does, isn't it???

Edited by frick, 09 July 2009 - 04:44 PM.

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#41 Wild B

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 04:37 PM

I'm new to the forum, and getting my Saiga 12 soon, so, since everyone but me seems to know what converting is, I would like to put in a request to actually see a converted Saiga. Anyone got some Saiga pics to throw in here showing the conversion?

Update: Nevermind, after looking around some more, I found some before and after pictures.

Edited by Wild B, 11 July 2009 - 10:09 PM.


#42 exxm4rine

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 01:10 PM

This will sound redundant, but is everyone sure u cant put a pistol grip on the saiga if u live in CT? i kno u can use a stock/grip combo type thing but is their anyway else around this?? thanks

#43 Twinsen

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 01:47 AM

This will sound redundant, but is everyone sure u cant put a pistol grip on the saiga if u live in CT? i kno u can use a stock/grip combo type thing but is their anyway else around this?? thanks


Either go without a pistol grip, or use one of the magazine releases that requires a tool. "mag locks"
I might end up being around a lot more.
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#44 K.o.t.H.

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 11:02 AM

I think I am one of the guys who really wants the mod but will never have it. I have never done anything like this and am not confident in my ability to do it. I am in Charleston WV and cant find anyone in my area who will do it. The only gunsmith who does these kinds of things had never even heard of the gun. Im upset because I really want this mod. Other than that I love my 2 hole s12. I will keep reading until I learn everything that goes into this. how much is an already converted s12. It was nearly impossible to even find my sporter. frustrated!
.

#45 exxm4rine

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 11:49 AM

This will sound redundant, but is everyone sure u cant put a pistol grip on the saiga if u live in CT? i kno u can use a stock/grip combo type thing but is their anyway else around this?? thanks


Either go without a pistol grip, or use one of the magazine releases that requires a tool. "mag locks"




Thank you, and so ur sure the mag locks are legal in CT? and any confirmation on wether the thumbhole or skeleton stocks with the grip basically on them are legal in CT also? thanks again i appreciate the help.

#46 Twinsen

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 11:14 PM

This will sound redundant, but is everyone sure u cant put a pistol grip on the saiga if u live in CT? i kno u can use a stock/grip combo type thing but is their anyway else around this?? thanks


Either go without a pistol grip, or use one of the magazine releases that requires a tool. "mag locks"




Thank you, and so ur sure the mag locks are legal in CT? and any confirmation on wether the thumbhole or skeleton stocks with the grip basically on them are legal in CT also? thanks again i appreciate the help.


Mag locks though, change the gun from one that "can accept detachable magazines" to one that doesn't. So you can have one more evil feature. However, then you have to deal with the "more than 5 round fixed magazine" evil feature. IMO it isn't worth doing.

I cannot say with all certainty that anything is perfectly legal. Court precedent can determine a lot, and I don't know it all. So I'll continue to assume that the thumbholes are legal here, as there is no written law saying they aren't. In California, there IS such written law.
I might end up being around a lot more.
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#47 exxm4rine

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 11:00 AM

This will sound redundant, but is everyone sure u cant put a pistol grip on the saiga if u live in CT? i kno u can use a stock/grip combo type thing but is their anyway else around this?? thanks


Either go without a pistol grip, or use one of the magazine releases that requires a tool. "mag locks"




Thank you, and so ur sure the mag locks are legal in CT? and any confirmation on wether the thumbhole or skeleton stocks with the grip basically on them are legal in CT also? thanks again i appreciate the help.


Mag locks though, change the gun from one that "can accept detachable magazines" to one that doesn't. So you can have one more evil feature. However, then you have to deal with the "more than 5 round fixed magazine" evil feature. IMO it isn't worth doing.

I cannot say with all certainty that anything is perfectly legal. Court precedent can determine a lot, and I don't know it all. So I'll continue to assume that the thumbholes are legal here, as there is no written law saying they aren't. In California, there IS such written law.



Yea those mag locks just sound like a big hinderance, so ill have to think about what im going to do, but thank you again for all the help. i will enjoy building my evil shotgun as much as i can around the stupidity that is CT gunlaws.

#48 Johny

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 11:57 AM

this is my first post i've
read here. seems like the right one to

I just wanna say hello and i can't wait to see what i got myself into...

#49 Citypol86

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 09:44 PM

Citypol, from my experience, take the easy way out, and just put an ACE or a Tapco pistol grip conversion on the shotgun, and add the additional needed parts to make it legal.

This is a shotgun, not a target rifle, and this repeated claim that the trigger pull is lousy just doesn't fly with me, if you are used to shooting military rifles with long slow trigger pull the Saiga series as is, is no worse, especially if you compare it to some vintage firearms.

I have also heard a "Balance" argument, but, it kind seem moots to be concerned about "balance" when you have a 12 round, 18" long magazine sticking out the bottom, or, have a 5 pound, 20 round drum hanging out of it.

The other thing is that the conversion, places the shotgun firmly in non sporting configuration.

IF, there is ever a push to make pistol grip Saiga's illegal, or to regulate them as a destructive device, in 10 minutes, an ACE or Tapco stock can be removed, and sans a high cap mag, you are back to sporting legality, it may not matter if that IS the case, but, better a fugly gun in your hand, than a buried gun in the ground.

Also bear in mind, there is mindset here of "My way or the highway", expect that attacks to get personal if you don't stay with the herd and do it their way.

The Saiga is a really interesting platform to play with, but, there is more than one way to go about converting the rifle and getting good results.

Oh, for the record, not even Russian civilians get pistol grip Saigas, they weren't placed into that configuration only to get them into the US.

Russian civilians are not allowed to own weapons that use magazines interchangeable with those used by the military, thats why the Saiga rifles have the feed ramp built into the magazine, they came up with a solution that they could sell internally, without as much fear that the public could own basically, an AK 47 or some variant thereof.

Interesting that the Russkies seem not to trust the free people even more than our governments does, isn't it???


Frick, I was going to try to edit out some of your response to shorten the quote but found that there was nothing that wasn't pertinent. Thanks!
Frick, your response was intelligent and thought-out. Thanks!
Frick, your response actually added factual information. Thanks!
Responses like yours and Post-Ap.s were what I was looking for.

Again, thanks for the response.

Later...
Brewster...

ferro ignique gesta res

#50 K.o.t.H.

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 12:03 AM

I found someone to do my mod. I want to convert my 12 and 308. What is a fair price? Does the mod help the gun work better? I know It looks better. How do you convert to ak style gas tube? I usually dont get responses but what the hell.
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#51 TheDarkHorse

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 07:51 AM

I found someone to do my mod. Cool.
I want to convert my 12 and 308. Cool.
What is a fair price? You would have to ask those who had theirs professionally done.
Does the mod help the gun work better? Only the FCG (Trigger) will show any improvement, everything else is the same.
I know It looks better. Most do. Some folks really F'em up.
How do you convert to ak style gas tube? Assuming you are refering to the .308, I'd ask that question in a .308 forum.
I usually dont get responses but what the hell. Yea, I hate when that happens.


In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter?

#52 K.o.t.H.

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 02:46 PM

Thanks thedarkhorse, I thought I saw some s12's with ak style gas tubes. If I saw It in the 308's I apologize. I would like to see some of the ones people messed up. Thanks for the info man.
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#53 K.o.t.H.

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 12:08 AM

The pic of ak style handguard and gas tube is the picture post , first page. I dropped off my s12 today for conversion. I am soo excited but I miss it, cant wait to post pics. My s308 is next up. Thanks guys for the motivation. :smoke:
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#54 zenmetsu

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 02:45 AM

There is the press-on upper assembly from dinzagarms which uses the AK's rear sight block. I am seriously thinking about going that route. I am kinda curious about the rear block though and where he is getting them. Dunno if they are made in U.S. parts, or parts from some other kit.
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#55 zenmetsu

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 11:01 PM

OK, I am planning on doing this in the upcoming week. I understand that I need a 3/8" and a 3/16" drill bit, right? I have a cobalt 3/8". Is this what is needed to go through the receiver? I heard that saigas are made out of "some hard shit"
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#56 Azrial

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 11:52 PM

.....Anyone really shoot with these guns?...

No, this is the Saiga Safequeen board.... Of course we shoot them!

As far as the rest of your post goes, well it is your gun, do with it as you like. But, the firearms functions and handles much better in the state that it was originally designed, as a pistol griped longarm with the correct FCG.

Hang around, read and maybe learn a little, you will see what I mean.

Or, you could come in here with all of 6 posts under your belt and try to smarten us all up!

Edited by Azrial, 14 August 2009 - 11:53 PM.

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#57 Tacti'cool'Wife

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 03:57 PM

We have a converted Saiga (and one not yet converted), but what a difference! When we shoot them side by side, you can feel a difference. Not to mention the grip is just more comfortable. After having the one converted, my husband wants to do the other one! No point in keeping it in the sporting confiq.!

#58 imarangemaster

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 07:53 PM

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CONVERT AND SHOOT!!!
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#59 Squawker

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 01:03 AM

Hi Gang:
I'm new to the board, just joined tonight. I was given a Saiga 12 by my wife as a birthday present a few weeks ago. You've sold me on the need to convert. But when it comes to things like that, I'm all thumbs. I'm the type of guy that needs specific training in order to be able to do this type of thing. That's the reason that I have no trouble suturing people, etc, since I had great practical instruction in med school. So, I will want to take it to a gunsmith to get the conversion done. Now, a gunsmith probably knows what needs to be done. but I would feel much better if I could go in and say. I want to get my Saiga 12 converted, I need this, that, etc done to it. So, could you give me a list of what needs to be done for the conversion? It would really help me out, along with a lot of people too embarrassed to say that they don't have a clue. Also, I saw this asked before, but I haven't seen an answer. Roughly how much should I expect this to cost? I don't need accuracy to the nearest 10 cents, just a rough guideline. I know that every gunsmith is different, but having a rough idea will give me a little bit of a weapon in dealing with price.
Thanks, I would appreciate help in this.
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#60 Ragnar Danneskjöld

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 04:22 PM

I think I am one of the guys who really wants the mod but will never have it. I have never done anything like this and am not confident in my ability to do it. I am in Charleston WV and cant find anyone in my area who will do it. The only gunsmith who does these kinds of things had never even heard of the gun. Im upset because I really want this mod. Other than that I love my 2 hole s12. I will keep reading until I learn everything that goes into this. how much is an already converted s12. It was nearly impossible to even find my sporter. frustrated!


If you have access to youtube, can borrow a dremel tool with a cutting wheel (from Home Depot?), and can afford to spend $6 on a set of punches two bits (and a zip tie) to go with the hammer and drill your grandpa gave you, then you can convert your gun in about an hour.

I spoke to a guy at Mississippi Auto Arms, told him I wanted to convert, and I had the parts in a couple of days.

If I can do it, anyone can. It is a lot of fun and very rewarding.

Edited by Ragnar Danneskjöld, 05 October 2009 - 04:23 PM.

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