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Looking for a folding stock..

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I'm in the process of deciding what stock to go with for my S-12, and ideally want to go with a side-folder that can accomodate the MD20 drum in the folded position.

 

Is this stock, (Ace model), capable of folding around the MD20? If not, what folder is?

 

TIA for the help.

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No its not. It'd have to be about 14 inches long and mounted to an external block to fold around the drum.

 

To clear the rear of the drum it would have to be about 6 inches long. A 7.5 inch ace skeleton stock on an external block with the butt pad removed will just barely clear the back of the drum.

 

There aren't any stocks to my knowledge that can be folded and work with the drum. Of coarse, I could be wrong so... take that for whatever you will.

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I don't know of any that fold completely. They do fold most of the way though.

 

S122.jpg

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I don't know of any that fold completely. They do fold most of the way though.

 

Enough so that they don't easily swing rearward when fired mostly-folded?

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I don't see how it could swing past your left arm, but I haven't tried it.

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I don't see how it could swing past your left arm, but I haven't tried it.

 

lol Yeah good point. I meant when fired one-handed, I suppose. Then it'd matter, maybe.

Edited by post-apocalyptic

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Havent tried that either, it's counter-indicated with an 8" gun.

 

Yeah, if it were still possible, I'd have you guys convert my gun, and shorten the barrel. Since it's not, I'll have to stick with my 19" barrel. I think I'll be able to fire it one-handed with the MD20 hanging off the bottom, (not that I should ever have any reason to). We'll see. It's at CGW atm having some warranty work done.

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I don't know of any that fold completely. They do fold most of the way though.

 

S122.jpg

 

Hey bob, what length barrel is that? i like the full length tromix hand guard on there vs the shorty one.

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Yeah, if it were still possible, I'd have you guys convert my gun, and shorten the barrel. Since it's not, I'll have to stick with my 19" barrel. I think I'll be able to fire it one-handed with the MD20 hanging off the bottom, (not that I should ever have any reason to). We'll see. It's at CGW atm having some warranty work done.

 

I can barely lift the thing into a firing position with one hand; unloaded at that. It's very front heavy. With a drum on it, your talking like... an extra 5 lbs added to the weight? I don't have the forearms for that myself. :lol:

 

But yeah, Bob is right, it'll fold most of the way, it just wont fold all the way. I'm pretty sure I've heard people working on plans for a stock that will work with the drum. Haven't seen anything concrete yet. I'd love to have one myself.

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I have been asking the same questions for a while on here... I would love to get ahold of this too!!! I think Nate at Magnolia??? is working on one of these but can't get an answer as to when or how much??

 

 

-COS

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No its not. It'd have to be about 14 inches long and mounted to an external block to fold around the drum.

 

To clear the rear of the drum it would have to be about 6 inches long. A 7.5 inch ace skeleton stock on an external block with the butt pad removed will just barely clear the back of the drum.

 

There aren't any stocks to my knowledge that can be folded and work with the drum. Of coarse, I could be wrong so... take that for whatever you will.

I know from experience the 7.5" ace stock w/external block/folding mechanism will lock folded WITHOUT the 1' rubber pad installed. It's the only way to fold up on a MD-20!

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No its not. It'd have to be about 14 inches long and mounted to an external block to fold around the drum.

 

To clear the rear of the drum it would have to be about 6 inches long. A 7.5 inch ace skeleton stock on an external block with the butt pad removed will just barely clear the back of the drum.

 

There aren't any stocks to my knowledge that can be folded and work with the drum. Of coarse, I could be wrong so... take that for whatever you will.

I know from experience the 7.5" ace stock w/external block/folding mechanism will lock folded WITHOUT the 1' rubber pad installed. It's the only way to fold up on a MD-20!

 

Ah, so it is possible, just not with the options I want to go with.

 

Late last night I ordered an ACE internal receiver block, push-button folding mechanism, and one of their ultra-light modular fixed stocks, (linked to in my first post), with the 1" recoil pad.

 

I'm sure that using it mostly-folded with the drum will work well enough

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I asked a similar question earlier this year.

So far, the only side folding stock I've seen that can fold with the drum in place is Cobra's short ACE stock on an external receiver block, and as has been mentioned, it only did it with the recoil pad removed. It's THAT close.

 

externalmechfolder.jpg

 

The AR Lite stock DOES almost clear the front of a drum...ALMOST. You wouldn't be able to use it though, since the drum requires you to insert it tipped forward, then rock it back into place. The tipping it forward part would preclude any current stock I'm aware of that would fold in front of the drum.

 

ARlitestock.jpg

 

I hope this helped.

 

Corbin

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Thanks for the info, Corbin.

 

Yeah, I've just decided that it doesn't really matter at all. I probably won't be firing the gun with both the MD20 drum installed and the stock folded very often.. just once in awhile when I wanna get medieval on some pallets/old printers etc :killer:

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Seeing that pic Corbin posted gives me an idea... I'll draw up what I'm thinking and post on it later.

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Is it by chance making the tube able to rotate so the butt clears the drum? I was trying to figure out how to install a heavy duty spring that would hold the butt in correct orientation, but could be rotated if need be. It would allow you to cant the weapon a little, but maintain a solid footing of the buttpad on the shoulder. The added benefit would be that it could possibly clear the drum when folded.

 

 

Seeing that pic Corbin posted gives me an idea... I'll draw up what I'm thinking and post on it later.

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No it wasnt but, I really really like that idea.

 

Mine was to make an angled buttstock that would clear the folded drum. Kind of like this (excuse the crudeness of the sketch):

s12outl.jpg

 

The aluminum part of the pad would be angled to clear the drum, and the rubber pad would be contoured to keep the same shape as the normal pad.

 

But, like I said, I like the idea of being able to rotate the butt. All it would take is a simple pull and lock mechanism on one end. I know there are things out there that work the way I'm thinking of, I just can't think of what they are. You pull it "apart" and rotate it into a slot and then let it go and the spring inside forces it back together. It could be done with multiple ratchet like slots so that the stock could be rotated to any number of positions in a circular range. It could be positioned at a 90 degree angle to clear the drum or at a slight left or right angle to better connect with the shooters shoulder like you said. The genius thing is that it wouldn't take all that much to make. Heck, it could probably be made in such a way as to work with any of the current stocks.

 

So yeah, to hell with my idea, yours is much better. :lol:

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Hey bob, what length barrel is that? i like the full length tromix hand guard on there vs the shorty one.

 

It's an 8" gun.

F1.jpg

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Havent tried that either, it's counter-indicated with an 8" gun.

 

I tried it once. That was enough. :rolleyes:

 

(Hand immediately went numb, felt like someone had puched me in the palm.)

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The ATI Strikeforce folding/collapsible stock folds and locks without touching the drum. Has to be in collapsed position and have the recoil pad slipped off.

 

It aint the prettiest way to go, and I had to make a collar out of sprinkler pipe to prevent myself from collapsing it fully when I took it to the range: I would hate to forget to extend the stock before firing. That knuckle of a hinge could do some serious dental work, I'm thinking. Probably no risk when mounted on something with less recoil than the S12, though.

Edited by GunClinger

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It's be nice to find a way to make a stock fold and clear the drum, without having to remove the recoil pad or collapse it. If nothing else, just to make it more compact with the drum attached.

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I agree.

I think the easiest way (short of a top folding stock) would be to modify the folder to allow the stock to rotate like I mentioned previously. Seems to me it would be easier with an AR-15 style buffer tube setup than something like a Tromix folder. For that style stock, you could have something that goes in between the folding mechanism and the stock that allowed it to roate somehow. Of course, that would add length.

 

 

Corbin

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I was thinking something like this Corbin.

 

mechnsm.jpg

 

It could either be adapted to a pull or push mechanism but essentially, you pull the sprocket B out of gear A and the rotate it to the position you want and let it go and spring tension from some other type of mechanism would push them back together and lock them tight. It would allow you to rotate the stock in any number of positions fairly quickly.

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Yeah, pretty much the concept I was thinking, though my vision had a collar you slid back (or forward) to unlock the mechanism. I didn't have the teeth 360 degrees, but it's the same basic concept though. Great minds think alike, huh? :P

 

In my mind, I'd have an AR-15 styled buffer tube attached to the receiver. In my case, I'd have it with a folding mechanism. The stock would have a heavy internal spring kinda like the the setup in this thread about the bumpfire stock. Either that, or an Endine type setup:

 

Here's a photoshoped picture to better show what I'm thinking:

 

Endinecopy.jpg

 

Regardless of whether the stock would have a recoil absorbing spring or not, it would consist of a central core that solidly screws into the receiver block via an adapter or what have you. It would also have an outer sleeve that the collapsable M4 stock would attach to. This outer sleeve could roate 360 degrees. On the front of this sleeve would be notches, as shown in the picture. Not shown is the collar that would slide back over them to lock the sleeve in place, rotationally.

 

The other option could be a simple spring loaded key on the 6 o'clock position that engages an individual slot. Or even a spring and detent inside the central core that locked into corresponding holes drilled into the sleeve. Then it would just be a matter of pressing the detent in and rotating the stock.

 

I hope this makes sense.

 

 

Are you using Solidworks for your 3D program?

 

 

 

Corbin

 

 

*Edited for spelling and a better explanation of the concept*

Edited by Corbin

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Nope, just good ol' free google sketchup with some photoshop additives. :smoke:

 

I certainly think it could work in some fashion. Now I just with I had the tools to make it.

 

I suppose I could make a mockup with some plastic sheet and PVC pipe... I do have some lying around from other things. Might have to give it a go.

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Definitely! Give it a try.

 

I'll probably do something similar eventually myself. Probably put it on a second Saiga though, since my first has a Tromix side folder with Limbsaver pad.

 

I was thinking.....(yeah that happens sometimes. LOL).......If we used a strong spring in the stock that resisted rotation (like how the drums work, but stronger), we might be able to have a stock that will allow the weapon to be canted left or right a little, while still maintaining a solid shoulder weld. Then, we'd only need to rotate it 180 degrees and lock it somehow rather than worrying about all the incremental positions locking.

 

 

Corbin

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Definitely! Give it a try.

 

I'll probably do something similar eventually myself. Probably put it on a second Saiga though, since my first has a Tromix side folder with Limbsaver pad.

 

I was thinking.....(yeah that happens sometimes. LOL).......If we used a strong spring in the stock that resisted rotation (like how the drums work, but stronger), we might be able to have a stock that will allow the weapon to be canted left or right a little, while still maintaining a solid shoulder weld. Then, we'd only need to rotate it 180 degrees and lock it somehow rather than worrying about all the incremental positions locking.

 

 

Corbin

 

I'd love to figure out something that would work with all stocks on the ace blocks but, best to start simple methinks.

 

I think something similar to my idea would work with that idea. It would certainly keep the mechanism compact if nothing else.

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