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Sold a 20 round mag to a Californian...


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#1 MN Legend

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 12:10 AM

I was selling some 20-round mags on Gunbroker. My ad said that I do not sell to Cali, NY,...
Someone from California won one of the auctions. He lists his address as California, but he wants to ship to another state. (The payment is in USPS money order, so stolen account or some other problem like that is not a concern).

My question is this: Is it legal for me to ship the magazine to a state where the magazine is legal while knowing that the buyer's address on file with GunBroker is a California address? I assume that if a California resident has a house in an other state, he can own whatever is legal in that other state and there is nothing that California can say or do about it, right?

#2 nalioth

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 12:31 AM

The law says you can't ship a complete magazine to California.

If the customer send you money and wants it sent to the moon, it's real simple: Is the moon in California? No? drop it in the mail.

So long as your package doesn't have a California/NY/NJ/MA/etc destination on it, I don't see any issues whatsoever.




Do not fall into the "big brother" mind set. The buyer is not asking you to ship to California, and for all you know EVERY OTHER WINNER could be a middle man for California residents.
"Tactical" is a mindset, not an equipment list.

#3 runofthemill

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 12:45 PM

What he does with it after you ship to a legal destination, is not your concern or problem.

#4 Twinsen

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 11:02 PM

I'm a third voice backing up the last two.
I might end up being around a lot more.
Posted Image Posted Image

#5 gunn

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 07:00 PM

I'm a third voice backing up the last two.


here are a few perfectly legit reasons why a CA resident may want to buy your magazines:
* He might have a high capacity magazine permit.
* There is no constructive possession law in CA in relation to AWs or high cap magazines. You may legally own a disassembled magazine in parts as long as you never assemble it within CA. Said owner might want to take it out of state (to use in Nevada for example) and provided he never re-enters the state with a fully assembled magazine, no law is broken here.
* He might have a friend/family out of state who is willing to store the mag for him. There's no reason, as a CA resident, the buyer cannot use this magazine when he is out of state.
* You are legally able to take the magazine rebuild kit and either a) use it to rebuild your pre-2000 hicap magazine or B) construct a permanently modified 10rd magazine out of the hicap rebuild kit. A permanently modified magazine means the neutering cannot be reversed without permanently damaging the magazine (the current school of thought is that you must use rivets AND epoxy according to some Cal DOJ ruling). While neither of these options doesn't apply to this scenario (20rd Saiga 12 mags did not exist pre-2000 and it makes no sense to make a 10/20rd drum when 10rd mags exist), this is especially true if you are trying to build legal magazines for guns where there ARE no 10rd mags or they are super hard to come by (PPSH, PPS43, G3, 10rd doublestack AK mags a few months ago, etc)

Technically, you can ship disassembled magazines as hicap rebuild kits straight into the state. Several companies do this already. I can understand why that may make you nervous though. However, he did offer you an out of state address to ship it to. Did he say he was specifically doing to reimport them as complete magazines? If no, where is your liability here?
-g

Edited by gunn, 28 July 2009 - 07:03 PM.


#6 desert dog

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 01:06 AM

Many Cali gun owners purchase "rebuild kits" all the time. They are for sale at most gun shows and at some stores.

#7 Ben Vampatella

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 09:59 PM

where Im from, in Yankee land, "intent" is 3/4 of the law, as is "possesion".


I got to wonder.........
Rockin the Saiga world since 2003

#8 Cobra's Custom LLC

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 01:47 AM

What if someone in Cali wants to order a 10 rd mag? Can a dealer ship them legally?

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#9 nalioth

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 02:01 AM

What if someone in Cali wants to order a 10 rd mag? Can a dealer ship them legally?

Anybody can, Cobra.

The ability to fire 10 shots isn't an evil trait, don't you know . . .
"Tactical" is a mindset, not an equipment list.

#10 kope007

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 06:11 PM

Probably a gift for someone in another state.

#11 rrr70

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 08:03 AM

where Im from, in Yankee land, "intent" is 3/4 of the law, as is "possesion".


I got to wonder.........

Possession of high cap in PRK is not a crime.

#12 Ben Vampatella

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 11:17 AM


where Im from, in Yankee land, "intent" is 3/4 of the law, as is "possesion".


I got to wonder.........

Possession of high cap in PRK is not a crime.


So you can have an MD20 there.....gotcha /sarcasm

Yeh, I unfortuneately have had to learn the basics to the CA firearms laws.

The funny part is, those bank robbers that shot the town up years back, were shot and killed.....I guess their illegal weapons (that were illegal at the time, BEFORE the laws went up) didnt get them any more or less time in the slammer, and I dont believe the weapons even came out of california, anyhow....

EITHER WAY, Im not so sure that if you have a "rebuilt" 20 or 30 rounder taking ten rounds, if they wouldnt screw with you if you had a normal sized follower in your ten round mag sitting right next to the larger mag body. I dont know the criminal intent definitions for CA, but to me, it just seems like one is asking to be screwed with.

The one thing I do know, is there is a point where laws and regulations become quite ridiculous, and actually seem to become a violation of one's civil rights at times (like the gun issue in CA).....it really needs to stop.

If you have to kill the person that is in violation of the law to apprehend them, what the hell difference did the law make, when other laws were broken to begin with?
Rockin the Saiga world since 2003

#13 SJgunguy24

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 05:24 PM

where Im from, in Yankee land, "intent" is 3/4 of the law, as is "possesion".


I got to wonder.........




where Im from, in Yankee land, "intent" is 3/4 of the law, as is "possesion".


I got to wonder.........

Possession of high cap in PRK is not a crime.


Possession is 100% legal, the burden of proof is on the DA and the kicker........statute of limitations is 3 years.
Any mag can be shipped into California as long as it's not ready for use. Pop the baseplate and remove the spring, then put it all back in the bag and ship.
If a DA wants to get ballsey and charge somebody for a crime that doesn't exist, like possession of "large ammo feeding device" CGF will burn them down, and post the video on youtube.

#14 SUPERSTEVE

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 02:03 AM



where Im from, in Yankee land, "intent" is 3/4 of the law, as is "possesion".


I got to wonder.........

Possession of high cap in PRK is not a crime.


So you can have an MD20 there.....gotcha /sarcasm

Yeh, I unfortuneately have had to learn the basics to the CA firearms laws.

The funny part is, those bank robbers that shot the town up years back, were shot and killed.....I guess their illegal weapons (that were illegal at the time, BEFORE the laws went up) didnt get them any more or less time in the slammer, and I dont believe the weapons even came out of california, anyhow....

EITHER WAY, Im not so sure that if you have a "rebuilt" 20 or 30 rounder taking ten rounds, if they wouldnt screw with you if you had a normal sized follower in your ten round mag sitting right next to the larger mag body. I dont know the criminal intent definitions for CA, but to me, it just seems like one is asking to be screwed with.

The one thing I do know, is there is a point where laws and regulations become quite ridiculous, and actually seem to become a violation of one's civil rights at times (like the gun issue in CA).....it really needs to stop.

If you have to kill the person that is in violation of the law to apprehend them, what the hell difference did the law make, when other laws were broken to begin with?


I am in California and I have a few 30 round AK mag parts kits, when I go to Nevada I take them with me and put them together and use them while im there, then before I leave I take them apart again.

Heck you could ship me 50 MD Arms 20rd drums legally! Just make sure they are not assembled.




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