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richct76

Did I buy a dud?

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Well, brought my new addition to the property today and it failed miserably. After spending some time getting the MD 20 and Pro Mag to lock in it was off to go blast some quick rounds before dinner with the Mrs. and have a little fun after a work week of hell. It might be the ammo - Remington Sport Shot 2 3/4- but not one shot cycled on either 1 or 2 setting. I stripped the weapon down and was able to see all 3 holes on the gas port, so that doesn't seem to be the issue and not even the stock 5 round mag would work, so I am hoping it's the ammo ---------Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am into this weapon for close a $1k with all the bells and whistles and can't get more than a shot off at a time!!

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Hmm dumb question... The puck is in the gas system right?

 

does anything happen with the bolt when you shoot?

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csspec is right on checking puck. :super: Club member, just resently brought one to me. The puck wouldn't move, used rod/dowel to remove. Sanded/polished, know works fine. Wasn't due to fouling. Also. noticed on some newer models, the finish/coatings are thicker/tackier. Longer break in time, or polish for improved function. :smoke:

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Well, brought my new addition to the property today and it failed miserably. After spending some time getting the MD 20 and Pro Mag to lock in it was off to go blast some quick rounds before dinner with the Mrs. and have a little fun after a work week of hell. It might be the ammo - Remington Sport Shot 2 3/4- but not one shot cycled on either 1 or 2 setting. I stripped the weapon down and was able to see all 3 holes on the gas port, so that doesn't seem to be the issue and not even the stock 5 round mag would work, so I am hoping it's the ammo ---------Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am into this weapon for close a $1k with all the bells and whistles and can't get more than a shot off at a time!!
mine was the same, but do the following

 

make sure the barrel ports are not plugged

 

get a kings armory tappett

 

lock the bolt back and leave it for a couple of weeks

 

polish the rails inside

 

 

if this doesnt work, then you may need a gunfixer plug

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Was it failure to fire(ftf) or failure to eject (fte) You need to break in the gun before you use either of those mags. Use the stock mag then install your gas plug, spin all the way in. try it on both settings, if that doesn't work come out one full rotation and try again. let us know and good luck.

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leaving the bolt back will simulate shooting the gun and weakining the spring over time or you could get a 11# 1911 main spring and replace the front spring on the wep to lower the resistance so the bolt does not need as much force to push it back causing less resistance for it to slam back forward

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Thanks for all the help - Here's the update.. picked up 200 rds of Remington 2 3/4 1-1/8 multi purpose this morning and figured I give the Saiga another run using the stock 5 and Promag 10 as well as the MD20. On setting 2 I was getting 70% success on operation with both the stock mag and 10 rd promag. Setting 1 was much worse, somewhere in the neighborhood of 15% operation on both FTL and FTE on either setting. And the MD20 wouldn't even cycle 1 round. After reading Mike's instructions it seems I might need some type of new gas plug which I'll order on Monday. The MD is a great looking drum and I can't wait to get it up as I don't think it's the drum itself, as it is the weapon. Any additional insight would be great- and thanks again for all the help...it seems it's getting better but still have significant failures- is there a better ammo I should pick up as she is all cleaned up and ready for another go around tomorrow!!

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I took my brand new saiga out a few days ago and had no problems.

 

I was able to shoot some Remington 2 3/4 #8 game loads without problems (on setting #2), and it chewed through any buck and slug round I put into it.

 

My suggestion - try some slug and buck rounds. They use a higher powder charge, and will produce a bit more recoil. That's what the stock weapon was made to shoot, and you should have no problems using them on setting 1.

 

EDIT -

 

On second thought, try 50-100 rounds of the higher recoil stuff to see if a break in helps with the cheaper stuff...

Edited by billyjoebob

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Here are a few topics that might help you with this issue also POLISH EVERY THING :bad_egg:

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=33836

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=20234

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...mp;&do=findComment&comment=339755

 

Also are you having any problems with your promag I have had alot of issues. does the bolt hit the top of the follower after the last shot ?

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Hmm dumb question... The puck is in the gas system right?

 

Yes, puck is and rotates.

 

does anything happen with the bolt when you shoot?

First 25 rounds the bolt moves but gets hung up 1/2 way back thus jamming the spent round in the chamber.

 

Was it failure to fire(ftf) or failure to eject (fte) You need to break in the gun before you use either of those mags. Use the stock mag then install your gas plug, spin all the way in. try it on both settings, if that doesn't work come out one full rotation and try again. let us know and good luck.

 

Reverted back to the 5 rd mag and it does much better than the 10 rder but still have FTE issues. I picked up another 100 rds of multi purpose today and still having the same issues. I tried coming out one full rotation to no avail. So far I have over 300 rds through which should be more than enough for a break in. I guess I'll have to order the gunfixer plug tomm??? I'm at a lost - even had the rest of the guys (everyone thought the gun was kick ass looking but were not impressed w. it's performance) I was shooting with today give it a go and we had some 5 rd shoot flawless and others jam every other round- what gives, is this normal for a Saiga out of the box? Is it really necassary to polish everything down?

 

At any rate, at least I brought an AR with me and dumped 250 rds through it so the day wasn't a complete loss.

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Run a few hundred high brass buckshot or slugs through the gun to get it good and loosened up on Setting 1 before trying more of that light stuff.

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Run a few hundred high brass buckshot or slugs through the gun to get it good and loosened up on Setting 1 before trying more of that light stuff.

 

Should I order the gun fixer plug or just pick up a hundred slugs and run them through? Seems like a lot to break these in proper- can't wait to get her up to snuff so I can hook up the MD20 and go out and have the fun that everyone on here keeps talking about!

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leaving the bolt back will simulate shooting the gun and weakining the spring over time or you could get a 11# 1911 main spring and replace the front spring on the wep to lower the resistance so the bolt does not need as much force to push it back causing less resistance for it to slam back forward

 

Unfortunately springs do not work that way, if they did we would be screwed. Springs wear or loosen up by cycling not keeping compressed or uncompressed.

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Clean the gas system real good, make sure your gas exhaust port is clear, its on the left side as you sight from the rear, just back on the front gas block. Then lube the internals, not the gas system. Then buy heavy loads and shoot the crap out of it.

 

The gas plug works great for over gassed guns, I don't think it will give more gas than 2 cranked out a full turn. One of my s12 was sticky for a while. just keep shooting a bunch of heavy stuff 330 + rounds. Regardless of how it runs after this then start polishing, it will make it smoother but won't help with the spring break in or the parts break in.

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Well, brought my new addition to the property today and it failed miserably. After spending some time getting the MD 20 and Pro Mag to lock in it was off to go blast some quick rounds before dinner with the Mrs. and have a little fun after a work week of hell. It might be the ammo - Remington Sport Shot 2 3/4- but not one shot cycled on either 1 or 2 setting. I stripped the weapon down and was able to see all 3 holes on the gas port, so that doesn't seem to be the issue and not even the stock 5 round mag would work, so I am hoping it's the ammo ---------Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am into this weapon for close a $1k with all the bells and whistles and can't get more than a shot off at a time!!
mine was the same, but do the following

 

make sure the barrel ports are not plugged

 

get a kings armory tappett

 

lock the bolt back and leave it for a couple of weeks

 

polish the rails inside

 

 

if this doesnt work, then you may need a gunfixer plug

 

Uh, why not just skip all the above shit, (except checking the gas ports, obviously), and just buy a Gunfixr's gas plug? It's superior to the factory plug in every way, allowing you to have both more gas settings and to hand-adjust those settings at any time, without fucking around with a seperate tool.

 

Gunfixr's improved gas plug is also significantly cheaper than the King's Armory tappet, and imho, is a more impressive innovation over the standard Russian part.

Edited by post-apocalyptic

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Well, brought my new addition to the property today and it failed miserably. After spending some time getting the MD 20 and Pro Mag to lock in it was off to go blast some quick rounds before dinner with the Mrs. and have a little fun after a work week of hell. It might be the ammo - Remington Sport Shot 2 3/4- but not one shot cycled on either 1 or 2 setting. I stripped the weapon down and was able to see all 3 holes on the gas port, so that doesn't seem to be the issue and not even the stock 5 round mag would work, so I am hoping it's the ammo ---------Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am into this weapon for close a $1k with all the bells and whistles and can't get more than a shot off at a time!!
mine was the same, but do the following

 

make sure the barrel ports are not plugged

 

get a kings armory tappett

 

lock the bolt back and leave it for a couple of weeks

 

polish the rails inside

 

 

if this doesnt work, then you may need a gunfixer plug

 

Uh, why not just skip all the above shit, (except checking the gas ports, obviously), and just buy a Gunfixr's gas plug? It's superior to the factory plug in every way, allowing you to have both more gas settings and to hand-adjust those settings at any time, without fucking around with a seperate tool.

 

Gunfixr's improved gas plug is also significantly cheaper than the King's Armory tappet, and imho, is a more impressive innovation over the standard Russian part.

 

Put the order through about an hour ago with Mike over at MDARMS - should be here in a couple of days and will have a chance to get out and try it on Tues after I get back from a business trip. PLEASE if anyone has any other insight send it my way. I hate to do it, but I'll have to leave the Saiga at home and grab another of my black guns when I head back out to shoot with the rest of my buddies again until it's spot on. It sucks b/c everyone thinks the weapon is SICK until they see it shoot and jam, shoot and jam, etc!

 

Seriously, thanks again...after researching it there's a lot to be said about this weapon just by the people that are in this forum. Prior to purchasing, I checked the site out and was impressed with what I saw - that's what sealed the deal (and the youtube vid of the pallet destruction) and you guys haven't let me down yet! Thanks again!

 

BTW- Should I trash the Promag and go with an AGP? I filed the promag down so it seats properly, but I'm getting consistent jams...

 

I guess I should walk before I run - you can scratch the mag question.

Edited by richct76

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This thread should not scare u away do a little research befor you buy one and if u have a problem there are many great people on this forum to help u out hell half the fun is tinkering but u will be more than happy with it I love all of mine ;)

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This thread makes me think twic about buying a Saiga 12 :(

 

I don't see why. Imo, if anything, threads like this one should encourage you to pick one up, (while you still can). They show that if anything is wrong with your gun, (if anything is, it's likely to be very minor), there are several inexpensive ways to improve its performance and a large, knowledgable community of S-12 owners who can help you.

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To the OP: You state you only had 15% function when on setting 1 with Bird shot. That's the way it's supposed to work. Setting 1 is for high brass, buckshot, slugs, Magnum rounds.

 

I've found that new guns run smoother when the rails & extractor slot is greased. I took my '09 3 hole gun out with the factory mag and ran 25 rounds through it without a single hickup. I did try 1 mag on setting 1 just for the hell of it and it choked up on 3 of the 5.

 

When broken in these guns will run dry, but I don't understand why anybody would pull one new out of the box and leisurely shoot them dry. Take the gun home, field strip it, grease the rails, bolt lugs, and extractor channel, then go put 100 rounds of bird shot through it. Would you buy a new Sig, HK, Springfield, Glock pistol and run it dry right out of the box?

 

The ability to run dry is great for when you are running for your life, and the last thing on your mind is the wear that is occurring to your weapon.

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To the OP: You state you only had 15% function when on setting 1 with Bird shot. That's the way it's supposed to work. Setting 1 is for high brass, buckshot, slugs, Magnum rounds.

 

I've found that new guns run smoother when the rails & extractor slot is greased. I took my '09 3 hole gun out with the factory mag and ran 25 rounds through it without a single hickup. I did try 1 mag on setting 1 just for the hell of it and it choked up on 3 of the 5.

 

When broken in these guns will run dry, but I don't understand why anybody would pull one new out of the box and leisurely shoot them dry. Take the gun home, field strip it, grease the rails, bolt lugs, and extractor channel, then go put 100 rounds of bird shot through it. Would you buy a new Sig, HK, Springfield, Glock pistol and run it dry right out of the box?

 

The ability to run dry is great for when you are running for your life, and the last thing on your mind is the wear that is occurring to your weapon.

 

Gun was greased prior to shooting the first time and cleaned and regreased prior to going out the next. I tried setting 1 only b.c setting 2 would not cycle, knowing that it wasn't designed for bird shot on 1, I figured what the hell and gave it a shot but not really expecting much. I'm waiting on the new plug and plan on picking up some slugs to compliment the shot I already have and see if it works any better.

 

To bigcec1: I purchased this gun knowing that there is a great chance it won't work out of the box and might need some adjustments - from my newbie understanding that's just the way these guns are built..Russia really isn't at the top of the list when it comes to QC, but I'm certain with some work and the help of the knowlegable people on this forum that I'll have it dialed in in no time. Pick one up - it's a sh#t load of fun when you cycle a 5 rnder through with no jams- can't wait to slap the MD20 on there!

Edited by richct76

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To the OP: You state you only had 15% function when on setting 1 with Bird shot. That's the way it's supposed to work. Setting 1 is for high brass, buckshot, slugs, Magnum rounds.

 

I've found that new guns run smoother when the rails & extractor slot is greased. I took my '09 3 hole gun out with the factory mag and ran 25 rounds through it without a single hickup. I did try 1 mag on setting 1 just for the hell of it and it choked up on 3 of the 5.

 

When broken in these guns will run dry, but I don't understand why anybody would pull one new out of the box and leisurely shoot them dry. Take the gun home, field strip it, grease the rails, bolt lugs, and extractor channel, then go put 100 rounds of bird shot through it. Would you buy a new Sig, HK, Springfield, Glock pistol and run it dry right out of the box?

 

The ability to run dry is great for when you are running for your life, and the last thing on your mind is the wear that is occurring to your weapon.

 

Gun was greased prior to shooting the first time and cleaned and regreased prior to going out the next. I tried setting 1 only b.c setting 2 would not cycle, knowing that it wasn't designed for bird shot on 1, I figured what the hell and gave it a shot but not really expecting much. I'm waiting on the new plug and plan on picking up some slugs to compliment the shot I already have and see if it works any better.

 

Good man. Sorry I came across so accusatory.

 

One more thing to try before you go throwing mods at that gun:

Unscrew the gas plug from setting 1 to 2 instead of screwing it in to setting 2. IIRC I could screw my cam in all the way and get it to lock on setting 2, but I ran it unscrewed from setting 1 and it ran great. You shouldn't have to unscrew it any further than that, and an MDarms/gunfixer cam is a great part. Both of my guns ran fine with the factory cam, but I put a gunfixer cam in them anyway just so I can switch it without using a tool.

 

Good luck with it. You're right, when these things start eating ammo there aren't many guns that can even approach the fun factor of the Saiga 12.

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I'm pretty sure that's how it's supposed to be. Screw in for less gas, screw out for more gas. Setting 2 is supposed to be for more gas to cycle less powerful rounds. The only time I've ever had any issues with mine not feeding or ejecting is when I forgot to return to the plug to setting 2 after firing high brass on setting 1. Of coarse, I got the Gunfixr knob anyway, more options and turning by hand. Hard to pass that up.

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All these tips on fixing the S-12 for FTE and no one brought up the fact that factory warranty service is available at no charge...................... :rolleyes: ........One of the first things to check is the gas ports. Make sure there are three ports and make sure they are not blocked by the gas block body...........Then start throwing money and ammo thru the weapon to break it in....... :smoke:

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