kiwigunner 0 Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 AK POS cant hit the broad side of a barn!! We hear this all the time and there may be some truth in this statement as I found out. The new AK/Saiga owner buys the rifle, rushes to the range and stuggles to hit the target at 100yds, gets grumpy and bad mouths the AK then sells it moaning to all who will listen. What he dosent do is to BUY a sight adjustment tool. I just brought 4 new Saigas (2 in 7.62x39 & 2 in .223 with 16" barrels) all 02-06 manufacture and one SKS 16" barrel, went to the range to sight them in. Every one with the rear sight setting at the lowest position at 25 yds was hitting 6"-8"high to the left or 6"-8" low to the right, (no wonder the new owner gets grumpy) so out with my sight adjustment tool and I proceeded to walk them across and up or down so they were spot on at 25yds which now gives me a battle sight of 3" high at 100yds and dead on at 200yds. Next thing was to put out the empty gas bottle approx 15"x15"(a mans chest size) at 100yds and bang,bang,bang without a miss, had I just gone straight to the gas bottle stage I would have been struggling to hit them at 100yds. Just thought I would shear this for any new owners and older ones who might be struggling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
xbox360 1 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) sight adjustment tool where can I get one? rear sight what is that the little flip up grenade sight thing?? you just pinch those together and move up or down Edited June 3, 2009 by xbox360 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phoenix Maximus 1 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 details on the adjuster? would consider getting something like this if I knew more Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mollysman420 19 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130565992 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kiwigunner 0 Posted June 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 I brought mine at a gun show, its a U shape piece of metal with a hole in one arm and a threaded rod in the other which you wind in to push the front sight right or left, it also has a slot in one end of the threaded rod which you put over the front post to adjust up or down (a rough decription only) All testing was done with 3 shots to estabilish groups. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 details on the adjuster? would consider getting something like this if I knew more You kidding right? You've owned your rifle for a while man, you've never shot it or sighted it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 sight adjustment tool where can I get one? rear sight what is that the little flip up grenade sight thing?? you just pinch those together and move up or down That is the rear sight and has nothing to do with grenades. Here is a detailed tutorial: http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/sightingin.html It even shows you how to use the adjustment tool, which you all should own. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
555JM 10 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) http://www.tapco.com/proddesc.aspx?Id=TOOL0312SINGLE Check Midway or Natchez for a better price... Edited June 3, 2009 by 555JM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 those pictures were deceptive before i got my first one. they are small pieces. I didnt need one of those when i got my rifle. i used the one that came with the cleaning kit since the barrel was properly positioned when i got it. However, since I am changing the FSB, I went ahead and got one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mstranglr 9 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Good advise, and mirrors my AK experiences. AK FS adjustment tools are mandatory equipment IMO. It is a rare moment indeed when I shoot someone elses AK and is is actually zeroed properly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) I wrote this down from some scribblings a while back for a friend, might be of use to somebody Zeroing an AK Most people zero an AK by setting the rear sight at 100 meters and a target at 25 meters and adjusting their sights untill they are zeroed at that range, at that setting. (if they ever adjust the sights at all.) This works, but does not accurately take into account the cumulative errors in the rear sight, and can result in considerable deviation from POA at distance. It works well for short range use, but if a more serious shooter needs to be able to hold an accurate POI/POA beyond 200 yards, which can come in handy when shooting more accurate loads such as match grade ammo, it would behoove that shooter to follow the original Soviet zeroing instructions, which will allow him to accurately zero at all distances, for those more precise shots. Of course, the expedited method works great, if you only have a 25 yard range to work with. Place a confirmation target at 100 meters (109.4 yards) with an aiming point available 25cm (10 inches) below the confirmation targets desired point of impact. Set the rear sight at the 300 meter mark. Place the rifle on semi-automatic fire (keep in mind these are the soviet instructions) From the prone position, with the forearm of the rifle well supported on a sandbag, fire a group of four rounds at the center of the aiming point. Do not move, or break cheekweld in between shots. The group should be no larger than 15cm (5.9 inches) The center of the group should be no farther than 5cm (1.97 inches) from the confirmation target's desired oint of impact. If the group is not within that distance, adjust the sights and repeat until it is. Set the rear sight to the 100 meter mark. Your rifle is now zeroed. Sight adjustment on an AK is all done from the front sight, Elevation is adjusted by screwing in or out the sight post, with 1 complete rotation moving the point of impact 20cm (~8 inches) at 100 meters (109.4 yards) and windage is adjusted by drifting the sight front post base left or right. A specific inexpensive tool, which looks like a C-clamp is sold to do this (i bought one for 3$ at a local gunshow) but in a pinch you can also tap the base with a spent shell casing and a hammer. It is important to take it slow, as 1mm of lateral adjustment results in a change to the POI of 26cm (~10 inches) The idea behind having the point of impact separate from the point of aim on our zeroing target is to adequately take into account the curve of the tangental rear sight, and to accurately match the trajectory of standard Soviet Issue m43 ball ammunition. I hope to test it soon, or take a look at some ballistics tables for newer ammunition, and i may be able to tune it in for use with Wolf match, and Cor Bon DPX ammo, but this should definitely get you in the ballpark. The Soviets issued a specific target that made this procedure easier, and it would be helpful to recreate a similar target to get the best results with the least amount of sweat. The Soviet target consists of a black rectangle 35 cm x 25 cm (14x10 inches) centered over a white background 1 meter by 0.5 meter (39.3x19.6 inches) The aiming point is the middle of the lower edge of the black rectangle, and the entire target is sized to be the same width as the front sight post at 100 meters, providing a nice contrast. Following these procedures, and perhaps combining it some rifle marksmanship training and with a nice peer rear aperture such as the ones sold by Krebs, the upcoming tech-sight or others, should allow you to amaze and silence the usual "You cant hit anything with an AK"/"spray and pray" crowd that inevitably ends up standing around talking shit at the range, while they spend time clearing their m4gery with laser sights so they can punch tiny little holes in a 20 yard target. Edited June 3, 2009 by ReverendFranz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KiwiSilverfox 0 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Hell I hope Xbox360 stays on your side of the ditch. Im 14`000miles away and he`s making me jittery. Xbox360 I feel you should be like alot of us or at least myself. start with a Single shot .22cal and as the years pass work your way up to a semi auto, learn to crawl before you start to run with a GUN. In not going to say what I do for a living but so far you have failed, But I like your enthusiasm.....Keep that up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agias 0 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 sight adjustment tool where can I get one? rear sight what is that the little flip up grenade sight thing?? you just pinch those together and move up or down That is the rear sight and has nothing to do with grenades. Here is a detailed tutorial: http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/sightingin.html It even shows you how to use the adjustment tool, which you all should own. He was joking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 guys, just thought Id point out, that the AK rear sight (its not a flip up grenade sight, xbox360), when you pull the trajectory adjustment all the way to the rear, the sight elevates. This is the "point blank" setting, and is right around the 100 yard sight height.....I sight in with that at about 50 yards, myself. Then again, I am not going for 200 yard pie plate groups with the x39.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mstranglr 9 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 I set the rear sight at the 100m setting, then zero at 25 yards. This gets me pretty close at 100, where I can then fine tune it and get a good 100m zero. Then verify by using the slider on the rear sight at 200m and 300m. The battlesight zero setting (all the way rearward on the slider), will then give me minute of man hits at all distances out to 300m. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phoenix Maximus 1 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) details on the adjuster? would consider getting something like this if I knew more You kidding right? You've owned your rifle for a while man, you've never shot it or sighted it? I fired about 80 rounds before the conversion, bummed a couple boxes off my boss so I could try DHP's brake, but never had the ammo to go out and sight it and all. I'm a decent shot but no idea about getting an actual adjuster for the built in AK sight.... still deciding between my holo sight or getting something else Have had 2k rounds on back order for months, canceled it yesterday for a different place, hopefully in a week I'll have plenty so I can finally have some fun with it Edited June 3, 2009 by Phoenix Maximus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phoenix Maximus 1 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) poor 360.... kid can't win, lol Edited June 3, 2009 by Phoenix Maximus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redsoldier 7 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 The setting all the way to the rear is NOT "point blank"... it is in fact "Battle sight". If you were going into combat with an ak you wouldn;t want to have to stop and adjust your sight every time you picked a new target. So the battle sight setting is a calculated number that takes into account the ballistic curve of the round. In the case of 7.62X39, the number is 250 meters. with this setting, an aimed shot at a soar plexis will yield a point of impact somewhere betwee the belley button and the top of the breast bone at any distance from 15 meters to 350 meters. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stix213 3 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 sight adjustment tool where can I get one? rear sight what is that the little flip up grenade sight thing?? you just pinch those together and move up or down hahahaha! That's hilarious!!!! But I sincerely hope you were just kidding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) The setting all the way to the rear is NOT "point blank"... it is in fact "Battle sight". If you were going into combat with an ak you wouldn;t want to have to stop and adjust your sight every time you picked a new target. So the battle sight setting is a calculated number that takes into account the ballistic curve of the round. In the case of 7.62X39, the number is 250 meters. with this setting, an aimed shot at a soar plexis will yield a point of impact somewhere betwee the belley button and the top of the breast bone at any distance from 15 meters to 350 meters. Even on this guy? Edited June 4, 2009 by ReverendFranz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phoenix Maximus 1 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 The setting all the way to the rear is NOT "point blank"... it is in fact "Battle sight". If you were going into combat with an ak you wouldn;t want to have to stop and adjust your sight every time you picked a new target. So the battle sight setting is a calculated number that takes into account the ballistic curve of the round. In the case of 7.62X39, the number is 250 meters. with this setting, an aimed shot at a soar plexis will yield a point of impact somewhere betwee the belley button and the top of the breast bone at any distance from 15 meters to 350 meters. Even on this guy? ESPECIALLY on him! lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redsoldier 7 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Even on this guy? ha ha ha ha ha! good one! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agias 0 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 guys, just thought Id point out, that the AK rear sight (its not a flip up grenade sight, xbox360), sight adjustment tool where can I get one? rear sight what is that the little flip up grenade sight thing?? you just pinch those together and move up or down hahahaha! That's hilarious!!!! But I sincerely hope you were just kidding. Take a look at my post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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