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if shtf what would you rather have?


which one would you rather have in a fire fight?  

442 members have voted

  1. 1. gun choice

    • saiga semi
      160
    • AK-47
      197
    • AR-15
      86
    • 1


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Serious answer, assuming a blank-check budget: fully self-sustaining space-station, one of the Big Donut-type with rotation-induced gravity, and enough time to get me and mine evac'ed out to it.

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  • 1 month later...
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Given these choices, the select fire AK47 is a clear winner!   Compared to the Saiga, you have; * Full auto capability. * better ergonomics, shorter length, better trigger, ability to accept h

well, im gonna just have to comment. this shtf crap cracks me up.     first of all, shit hits the fan and a firefight happening, ill run you the fuck over with my truck, for starters.     now,

The visual power of the AK in a real life disaster situation: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1563080/posts   Yakdung

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I tell you what I wouldnt want, a focking AR 15 or AR 10 or 1911. Yeah, very accurate, but this is SHTF not the range. They would be jamming left and focking right, probably when you need it the most. Think about it, maybe on the move, rainy,wet,muddy, dirty. You may not have time to clean like you would safe at your home with time and all the supplies.

You want weapons that will function in those elements with mim upkeep.

Such as...

 

HANDGUNS

 

HK USP or 45

SIG P220 or P226

GLOCK whatever

 

SHOTGUNS

 

Remington 870

SAIGA 12

 

RIFLES

 

AK 47

FN FAL

 

Also a good fixed blade knife.

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  • 3 weeks later...

In an inner city where lots of room clearing and CQB situations would be taking place I would probably want my Tromix 12in SBS(poly choke II).

 

If I lived in the country and longer shots could be obtained lets say 200 yards+ a piston drivin AR would not be a bad choice(with sufficient ammo no 55gr crap)

 

For a sure go to gun in any situation I would have to say the AK. It's utterly reliable and almost indestructible.

 

I voted AK

Edited by raidersfan_5544
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  • 2 weeks later...

AR15, if I have to pick from that list.

 

I'm in the USA... every cop and soldier will have compatible mags and ammo, and I'm going to need to scavenge on my way back to MY gear.

 

 

The H&K G3 in 7.62x51... turning hard cover into concealment.

 

Oh yeah, if you're talking urban environment and room clearance, you better have a buttload of grenades.

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  • 2 weeks later...

i dont see why anyone would pick the saiga over the ak....i mean its not only full auto...you can do singles with it too......

 

Cause saiga's are typically more accurate and are brand new. The average ak-47 has scene quite a bit of use. Plus you can have a saiga in any custom configuration +lots of optics and accessories. I'd definitely take a converted (me or quality conversion) saiga over an average AK-47.

 

Now if your talking about a new russian krink or ak-105 or a customized ak-47 with all my favorite parts then yes I'd definitely take that over a saiga.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello

 

This may be really off-topic, but one thing that occurred to me after the Fort Hood Jihadist slayings was that we have a large number of highly-trained but lowly-armed Servicemen on our bases.

If SH really did HTF in the manner in which I suspect it may, those brave and well-trained Servicemen would go unarmed. I suspect by all means they would stay unarmed.

 

Point is, I feel it might be our duty, as Patriots, to ensure that our Fighting Men and Women have the tools of their trade no matter what the task....I'm hoping to be able to do my part.

 

I hope I have enough to protect my home and family with maybe a couple or so of surplus....How 'bout you?

 

Respectfully,

 

guido

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There's plenty of guns in the armories on any military base, just a matter of issuing them out. The government has huge stock piles of equipment. On several occasions I was issued ammo that was several decades old. The gov't can fend for themselves if things get really bad they have :dollar: and stock piles.

 

That said things get bad I'm going to hang out in my cabin, catch fish from the swamp across the road, drink from my well and stay out of sight. Woods here are pretty thick so a shotgun has enough range most of the time for hunting. Besides a 12 gauge can bust a lot of stuff (like little armored vehicles, locks, doors, etc) :devil:

 

An AK isn't a magic weapon but it's an all around decent weapon. I'd carry my AK. If I want an AR/ M4 I'll pick it off the bodies/ out of patrol cars. It's a lot cheaper to stock up on 7.62x39 then any thing else right now. I live out side a military town so ARs are dime a dozen. I rather not be competing against ever one else for parts and ammo. That and after shooting a few dogs with m855 i'm not overly impressed. I've never had reliability issues with an M4 but I'm also a neat freak when it comes to weapons. I'm comfortable shooting what ever but an AK is my personal preference. I view weapons as a means to more weapons so what ever will do really.

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Hello

 

This may be really off-topic, but one thing that occurred to me after the Fort Hood Jihadist slayings was that we have a large number of highly-trained but lowly-armed Servicemen on our bases.

If SH really did HTF in the manner in which I suspect it may, those brave and well-trained Servicemen would go unarmed. I suspect by all means they would stay unarmed.

 

Point is, I feel it might be our duty, as Patriots, to ensure that our Fighting Men and Women have the tools of their trade no matter what the task....I'm hoping to be able to do my part.

 

I hope I have enough to protect my home and family with maybe a couple or so of surplus....How 'bout you?

 

Respectfully,

 

guido

i have always belived in having a couple extra weapons for a friend or neighbor in case shtf.im just curious and will not bash or fuel any fires but in your eyes what WILL be the manner of shtf?just curious.pm me if you wish.thanks,Mike.

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Hello

 

"There's plenty of guns in the armories on any military base, just a matter of issuing them out."

 

I guess that's the issue with me.....I'm not so certain the current folks "in control" (term used loosely) are all that comforable with armed Patriots running amok waving Old Glory.....

 

 

This "civilian militia" attitude has me asking a lot of "what if?" questions of myself, I suppose....

 

Edit to add:

SHTF = FEMA Button (Martial Law/Suspension of all things Constitutional)

 

Just musing.....

guido

Edited by guido2
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First food, I don't care to die of hunger. I have a Savage .22LR Stainless BA, would love to put some sort of budget night optic on it, one could literally survive for years on possoms, coons, fox, rabbits, and the like in the woods around here poaching at night. Stock up on .22LR over anything else.

 

I also have a collection of 9mm Glocks and a Sub2k for concealment which may be useful in some SHTF scenarios (blending in.)

 

I do have an AK-47 but I really haven't stockpiled on ammo for it, I see it as a defense to gang drive-by's, even then a Mosin may be better. I guess it along with my shot guns would be more of a home defense weapon.

 

For self defense on the move I'm banking on the AK-74. You can carry a lot of ammo, you've got 45 round mags and I can actually afford to stockpile the ammo. Plus it will take down a deer. I figure if I run out of a few thousand rounds of self defense ammo I probably don't want to see the light of day anyway.

 

I'm still debating on picking up an AR, just can't think of a scenario where I would pick it up over the AK-74. WTSHTF I don't think 100+ yard kills will ever be justified, JMHO. I mean if someone is shooting at you at over 100 yards, take cover. If you are shooting at the "enemy" at 100+ yards, you are bound to cause trouble and end up dead anyway.

 

Am I against the grain on these strategies?

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WTSHTF I don't think 100+ yard kills will ever be justified, JMHO. I mean if someone is shooting at you at over 100 yards, take cover. If you are shooting at the "enemy" at 100+ yards, you are bound to cause trouble and end up dead anyway.

 

Am I against the grain on these strategies?

 

 

Not necessarily.

 

There's far too many variables possible to say 100% though. If someone is about to kill a family member 100 yards away and you have a shot, it would be justified. If you've got a deer in your sights and can't get any closer than 100 yards, it might be worth taking the shot. If in the unlikely event your position is surrounded and about to be stormed by gang members/crazies/zombies/etc, a well placed headshot from an unknown location could give them pause (maybe not with zombies). :rolleyes:

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WTSHTF I don't think 100+ yard kills will ever be justified, JMHO. I mean if someone is shooting at you at over 100 yards, take cover. If you are shooting at the "enemy" at 100+ yards, you are bound to cause trouble and end up dead anyway.

 

Am I against the grain on these strategies?

 

 

Not necessarily.

 

There's far too many variables possible to say 100% though. If someone is about to kill a family member 100 yards away and you have a shot, it would be justified. If you've got a deer in your sights and can't get any closer than 100 yards, it might be worth taking the shot. If in the unlikely event your position is surrounded and about to be stormed by gang members/crazies/zombies/etc, a well placed headshot from an unknown location could give them pause (maybe not with zombies). :rolleyes:

yeah i have to agree.it depends on the conditions.say if it was SHTF situation and you are in a rural area(maybe live in a farm house)and some gangs started going outside the city to plunder resources,well for sure as shit im going to start opening up chest cavitys at 200m with the PSL(after verifying the presence of a threat).hopefully exterminating them ALL before 100m or getting all i can past 300m if they retreat hopefully nullifying a return visit.afterwards searching the bodys/vehicle for what they had and then cleaning up the mess as best as possible.ALSO REGAL....i do agree with the idea of stocking up .22lr and using for hunting for food.its cheap,accurate,effective,and can easily be suppressed to keep as much attention away from your comfort zone.

Edited by BuzzNectar
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  • 1 month later...

If it ever hits the fan, I would want my semi auto 308.... Know when and if it ever does you might want to think about the weight of the ammo you are going to have to carry with you. Remember that you are not going to have a vehicle to carry this with you (no gas)... You also have to carry food and supplies, so unless you have a horse or a mule you are SOL....

 

I had a person tell me that he would carry his 22 rifle, although this is not a bad idea, it is not going to do much for you if you have to protect yourself when a person has something bigger.....

 

I hope it never happens........

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A simple 22lr may be the best choice...if you really wish to survive long term

Jim

 

I completely agree. that 22lr is your food.

 

the s12 with 100 rounds would default to my "large biped" tool. I wouldnt worry about game laws with a .22 if it came down to it. You gotta eat. the .22 is the best and most discrete weapon out there that can reach out and touch something, and bring food to the table.....pack 500 rounds of 22 (about a year of food if you can find and shoot it), then pack 500 rounds of 223 or x39.....nevermind the whole town will hear when you shoot something

 

 

The old trusty 10/22 would fo sho be a good one for food. I'd take the AK over the AR though, just because of reliability. Let's just hope we never have to see a scenario where we would be having to shoot at fellow countrymen...... Can I get an AMEN!

 

Remember this also, if your reps are not pro 2nd amend ..... vote their sorry asses out this time. I got a tee that I wear a lot. It says "Mass murderers agree - Gun Control works" w/pics of Stalin, Hitler, and Mao. "Polticians prefer unarmed peasants"

 

Krom, I believe you to be a true patriot. Have you ever heard of "Oath Keepers"? Been around for a while, and is full of Constitution Backing individuals from the military and law enforcement communities. I urge you all to check these guys out.

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A simple 22lr may be the best choice...if you really wish to survive long term

Jim

 

I completely agree. that 22lr is your food.

 

the s12 with 100 rounds would default to my "large biped" tool. I wouldnt worry about game laws with a .22 if it came down to it. You gotta eat. the .22 is the best and most discrete weapon out there that can reach out and touch something, and bring food to the table.....pack 500 rounds of 22 (about a year of food if you can find and shoot it), then pack 500 rounds of 223 or x39.....nevermind the whole town will hear when you shoot something

 

 

The old trusty 10/22 would fo sho be a good one for food. I'd take the AK over the AR though, just because of reliability. Let's just hope we never have to see a scenario where we would be having to shoot at fellow countrymen...... Can I get an AMEN!

 

Remember this also, if your reps are not pro 2nd amend ..... vote their sorry asses out this time. I got a tee that I wear a lot. It says "Mass murderers agree - Gun Control works" w/pics of Stalin, Hitler, and Mao. "Polticians prefer unarmed peasants"

 

Krom, I believe you to be a true patriot. Have you ever heard of "Oath Keepers"? Been around for a while, and is full of Constitution Backing individuals from the military and law enforcement communities. I urge you all to check these guys out.

 

Thanks! I have checked out 'Oath Keepers' and I really like them. I choose not to join because I don't want to highlight myself (big brother is watching dry.gif) but I believe in their cause!

 

 

 

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Thanks! I have checked out 'Oath Keepers' and I really like them. I choose not to join because I don't want to highlight myself (big brother is watching dry.gif) but I believe in their cause!

 

 

 

I can abide that.

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If the proverbial shit were to hit the fan and for some reason I could only take one of my guns, I'd probably grab the Saiga-12, my thought behind why falls back to the old west, the shotgun was an extremely formidable weapon, especially for close-range combat. I would figure most confrontations in a SHTF situation would be people approaching you to try to rob you of your goods in a close confrontational setting, the 12-gauge 00-buck is the best way to go, if there is one guy or several, the 12-gauge 00-buck could easily disable one or more of them.

 

What do police carry for riot control? A rifle .. nope, a nice pump-action 12-gauge.

 

Though open carrying any weapon is going to seriously dissuade anyone from approaching you, just remember if you are open carrying something, be damn sure you are extremely proficient with it.

 

If I had to leave the house, it would probably be with my roommate, I'd give him the shotty and I'd carry the AK, since I'm proficient with both and he's proficient with neither, better for him to carry a long gun which takes less skill to operate.

 

Police carry Shotguns for riot control so they can use "less-lethal" projectiles (bean-bags, rubber slugs, and tear gas), not so they can do some mall-ninja hollywood style street sweep. Many police still carry shotguns on the rack in their cruiser because that is all they are allowed to carry - when given the option of a rifle, they always take the rifle.

 

All of the world's militarys use the shotgun for door breaching, rebar cutting, less-lethal crowd control, and for CQB to a limited extent.

 

Also on the training issue, its much easier to train someone to use the AK than the shotty.

 

That is all. Like I said, shotty is a very specialized weapon.

 

 

Desert Dog is right.

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  • 1 month later...

Just my rather uncollected thoughts on a SHTF situation...

 

Honestly I don't think that engaging the enemy in a sustained fire-fight would be a big priority for me. Any shooting done would be in self defense. Hiding and running away to safety is my first priority. Avoid contact as much as possible. So really a fully automatic firearm isn't necessary. Obtaining one BEFORE the S hits the F is difficult (especially if, like me, you live in the PRK) and your money could be better spent stocking up on ammunition or food.

 

I don't own a saiga yet but I plan on getting one. The .308 round will kill a large variety of game and has the stopping power required to be a serious defensive weapon. I would avoid "CQB" type weapons because I would be avoiding urban areas. A light weight carbine is one thing (m-38 mosin, SMLE carbine, M1, etc...) but a rifle weighed down with every tacticool doo-hickey attached to it would be inefficient. Remember, you have to be able to carry food, clothing, protective gear, medicine and water as well as your weapons and ammunition.

 

So for me, my choice would be my trusty old M91/30 or a saiga .308 (22 in.) converted for a pistol grip.

 

As for my sidearm? My S&W Model 29-3 is perfect. 6 shots for sure and .44 mag at that. I am wary of semi auto pistols. I watched my grandfathers Para-Ordnance 1911 stovepipe every third round with some slightly dirty ammo. A double action revolver will fire just as fast and with my HKS speedloaders, will reload pretty darn fast as well.

 

In addition, I have a cheap italian military rucksack to hold some extra clothes, dried/canned/preserved food for 3 days, army shelter tent, wool blankets etc... I am sure a fancy MOLLE pack, Bergen or ALICE might be better but this cost me $20 and it holds stuff.

 

OH! And another thing! Canned fruit or vitamin C supplements should definitely be included in your kit. Scurvy is a nasty way to die.

 

When the Defecation hits the Oscillation don't count on LE or Military to help you. Most likely you will be herded away to some sort of holding area or refugee camp along with thousands of other people and end up waiting for disease and infection to finish you off. You have to be self reliant. Your family and your closest friends (who are family in a way) are the people who will watch your back and expect you to watch theirs.

 

Anyways, thats my rambling 2 cents.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not a military vet or anything like that but here are my two cents.

 

Scoped crossbow with regular and exploding arrow points.

A sturdy horse, and a lasso.

Pump Shotty

Sig P229 .40S&W

Survival knife

Remington 30-06 bolt action hunting rifle.

Bazooka

 

Did I leave out throwing stars?

 

No but in all seriousness, if you do have access to horses and aren't in a big city, you could take quite a bit with you assuming you are on one and leading another. I think it would be pretty important to have a .30 caliber family bolt action hunting rifle with a good scope, and then whatever caliber your semi-auto rifle would be with an acog or some thing with similar zoom capabilities (or just good ole iron sigts). Throw in a pump 12 ga., and aforementioned pistol and you'd have a jump on most people around you, especially if you can get out in the scrub, unless you are in the deserts, then you are f'd and should stay in town.

 

Don't get me wrong, Saiga shotguns and all shotgun autoloaders are sweet, but if SHTF, give me my benelli 12 ga pump so I only have to worry about one semi-auto weapon and the potential problems that could appear in a down and dirty situation.

 

My grandfather swears by his .410 pistol he used as a side arm to clear out caves in the pacific (he still has it to this day), if it worked for him in those tight quarters it'll work for me.

 

IF there is no way to escape or anything, bury your weapons out of sight and hold on and wait, or just join the enemy, it's probably easier, jk.

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  • 2 weeks later...

hmmm? so are citizens suppose to hand in there firearms to local law/military when they come knocking on your door asking for your arms in a shtf senaro or do you think they will an advance notice to bury them?

 

Everytime a minor "SHTF" has occured the police have done everything they can to sieze weapons. In katrina they confiscated several, in NC when there was a hurricane warning they made it illegal to transport ANY weapons.. You make a good point.

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I vote S -.308. w/ 20 rd mag. If you are by your self it is not reasonable to believe that you will succeed defeating multiple threats at close range. Your better off giving the threat some problems to deal with at a distance. Exp. If you have a four guys coming at you and you take out one at a distance. They will probably stop and take care of that guy. If you take out one of the four at close range the rest will take care of you and then take care of their own. .308 is readily available non-corrosive ammo. 20 rnd mags are enough to give you a fighting chance. I would a choose the Kalashnikov design because it is semi-auto and reliable.

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  • 1 month later...

Not THIS argument again...

 

If things are bad I want a gun I can scavenge ammo for. That means either a shotgun or an AR. Sorry guys, but the AR is the most popular rifle in the US after the 10/22, so I want one. Ammo is readily available and moreover parts, magazines, ect. Also you can reach out and touch people at further distance than a shotgun, and magazine capacity is higher. I can also carry 30% more ammunition for the weight than a Kalashnikov. I wouldn't necessarily abandon my home just cause things got rough, as my house is very defensible and has capability to generate power and food, but it's nice to have a weapon system that can be carried a little easier.

 

I still would rather have a Sig 556. All the advantages of both worlds.

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