kdbutler 563 Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Another "Chump In Charge"? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marrok857 51 Posted May 10, 2011 Report Share Posted May 10, 2011 If SHTF what would you rather have? 5 midget pole dancers, a kiddie pool and enough Jack Daniels to last a lifetime..... What? Only 5? 5 midget dancers with krinks.............ahhh yea no jack, only the freshest budweiser in a cooler.........but i will settle for king cobra 40's Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steveb327 13 Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) I just changed my vote from AR to an AK. Granted, it was from my own stupidity, but an AR just has too many small parts that can ruin your day. Case in point, I put in a sling plate on my AR, reinstalled the collapsible stock, but it needed just "one" more turn to fully seat it over the little buffer retaining pin/plunger. Five round later, dead gun. Opened it up and the plunger was next to the trigger, the $0.75 spring was fubar. Probably could have continued w/o it, but judgement got the better of me. I was only at the range, and nothing was shooting back. S12 was in the case, anyway. Again, my error. Never had such a mechanical problem with an AK, even if I "like" the AR better as a good American. Still hung up on caliber, though. What am I more likely to find in the US post-SHTF? Still 5.56x45. There are AKs in that caliber, but then there's mag compatability. Reality? Shoot whatever I have until I run out. Pick up the next gun, rinse and repeat. As for the SIG, +++1. I had the good fortune to go into the armory at SIG Academy last year. I was happier there than at the strip club down the road! F/A everywhere, including SBR f/a SIG556s and others. Racks of them!! Good times.... Edited May 11, 2011 by steveb327 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CaptLouie 8 Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 (edited) Well... guess I'll add my 2 cents worth... I've read through the varied responses, most the guys have valid points and selections! Just depends on where you are when it hits, and how hard it hits... ... Nothing like but here goes... I've setup my "SHTF Prep" with some basic standardizations... 45ACP For all my handguns and my "quick response" Carbine, Just need some bigger mags for the carbine... 308 For my "kick ass" surburban and long-gun with 1.5-10x30... SAIGA of course... 12GA Shotgun for close in work, not a Saiga but nice, reliable, and damn accurate. We keep it loaded with Low Recoil 00Buck & Slugs for Momma... 22lr Semi Auto, mag feed. Now this is where I agree with several of the other members. 22lr, and a very SHARP machetes (for the big knife)... MOST IMPORTANT is lots of mags and enough ammo to cover your ass... ... and your buddy when he shows up and is "almost out"... ... and don't forget those "spare parts" for each weapon. Some of these might make nice clubs but they all let the zombies get too close! Edited May 17, 2011 by CaptLouie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mpringle 0 Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 I was wondering?... The people that are saying that the AR was un reliable: Would that be the Bushmasters, RRA, Stags, Or the Bcm's, Daniels Defense, or Colts. As to me there is a big difference. As to what i would vote for, would be what i had to fight my way home. Often think as to what it would be like if i was at work when SHTF. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
racolqui 19 Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Don't pick your caliber based off of what our military or police are using. The BIGGEST SHTF fallacy is the belief that you can resupply from cops or soldiers. THE UNFORTUNATE TRUTH: In every SHTF event I have researched, when police or military see you with a gun or are alerted to its presence, THEY TAKE IT! Not just here, but all over the world. Civil unrest is FAR more likely than a Red Dawn. You will not be fighting alongside our troops and cops - they will be trying to control YOU. As part of the military (USMC and now USCG) and LE community I think you underestimate how committed most of us are to upholding freedoms like the 2nd Amendment. If a true SHTF scenario came into play and big daddy govt tried to take the citizen's arms there would be a civil war inside the military and the govt. I'm not saying there won't be areas and situations where government tyrany will occur, but I just don't ever see a widespread coordinated effort ever happening. Localized areas (Kalifornia, Mass, New York, etc..) I would expect the government coming after it's people. But never on a national scale. So being able to get ammo that is produced domestically for and used by the govt is a very valid argument. In a sustained SHTF scenario there will be more .223 ammo out there to be had than 7.62x39 period. And yes if your town had to survive and protect against outside threats (large criminal gangs since there are no feds to stop them etc.) I absolutely think that we would be providing security and fighting along side our local LEOs. This is America, freedom is our heritage, and I have faith in our citizens to unite to protect it self. 1 Saiga semi (converted), more accurate than most other AKs and you can choose caliber for your environment. 2 AK-47 it's reputation proceeds..... FYI I think FA in x39 is a waste of ammo. 3 AR cause nothing else was available Amen to you brother, I like to think and hope you are correct. I would chose my Saiga 12 and Glock 19 I would also sneak in my Keltec SUB 2000 in glock 19 configuration. If they are farther away than they can handle it is best to hide and keep quite. In true survival situations you won't me making long shots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sirex 34 Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 I chose the Saiga Semi for the simple fact here in MD, I bought mine unregulated. That said, in a SHTF scenario, if the governments attempt to confiscate firearms, it would make them easier to hold on to. The Saiga is a very reliable rifle, doesn't scream "Terrorist", and I don't need the bayonet or fancy grips. In a SHTF scenario, I think my Saigas would be adequete. I'm more concerned with food, water, shelter, medical supplies, communication stuff. I have enough other guns and knives, but the Saiga is enough of a gun for what I need. Just my $.02 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Not trying to be rude, but while you are at it why don't you post a poll in the Camaro owners forum to find out if Fords or Chevys are better... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battosaii 99 Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 7.62x39 AK mid range, S12 close range, 91/30 long range get the job done guns when i really need it ruger 10/22 for small/medium game hunting and it can also be deadly to human if used right. 1911 side arm will always be on me and a mexican machete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rob0126 1 Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 (edited) Whatever Gun I have available at the time. However, after reading all the posts, and getting some better ideas, and doing a reality check: If they come for my guns, and it's a SWAT team, bye bye guns(I have a wife to consider). There are alternatives however: Bury a firearm w/ammo in a different location. Be prepared and you wont have to give anything up. I actually traded off a 7 round shotgun to get a saiga 7.62, because I believe a rifle will come in more handy for hunting: especially a semi auto. Food and Water is still important. Starving people do stupid things. ADD: A good fixed blade knife. For example, a SOG Seal Pup. Edited October 15, 2011 by rob0126 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kdbutler 563 Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 Whatever Gun I have available at the time. However, after reading all the posts, and getting some better ideas, and doing a reality check: If they come for my guns, and it's a SWAT team, bye bye guns(I have a wife to consider). There are alternatives however: Bury a firearm w/ammo in a different location. Be prepared and you wont have to give anything up. I actually traded off a 7 round shotgun to get a saiga 7.62, because I believe a rifle will come in more handy for hunting: especially a semi auto. Food and Water is still important. Starving people do stupid things. ADD: A good fixed blade knife. For example, a SOG Seal Pup. Welcome to the forum rob0126. The SOG Seal Pup is a good knife from what I've read. I've also been looking at this one: http://www.gerbergear.com/Tactical/Knives/LMF-II-Knife_22-41400 or just a plain old Kukri like this one: http://www.m4040.com/Survival/Ghurka/Khukri%20Modification.htm Just one more thing to add to my Christmas "Wish List". Decisions, decisions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
belt fed frog 56 Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 The only way to "Win" in this type of situation depends not on what weapon you choose to carry/utilize but rests firmly on the Tactics you use !!!!! If you are smart you will study the implementation of Asymmetric Warfare and USE IT to the fullest extent you can !!!! The US has never beaten an insurgency , some will say we won in Iraq ,no we bought $$$$$$$$ an end to it there plain and simple !!! The key to Asymmetric Warfare is to think outside the "Box" of traditional tactics and application while fully understanding traditional tactics .There are chinks in normal tactics that can be exploited by the Asymmetric Warrior to astounding effect if you know what they are . These chinks in traditional tactics are more often environmental than not ,Know your ground well and you can win the day with little risk to you and completely wipe out the opposition into ineffective ,disoriented individuals with amazingly simple Tactics and very little preparation time without out the use of a firearm if you wish . All if you know your environment well enough (do not forget what is below the surface either ) to be able to utilize any and all resources to affect your intended outcome so you walk away at the end of the day and they Do Not !!! Oh you may have to "Bait" the field of your choosing to achieve Victory and it is preferred that you make first contact in a way you survive !!! Remember a battle is not a single shot but a series of events/contacts, so you need to be able think quickly and accurately about when,where and how you cut and run to your next "Baited Field" ! With the right mind set and a good working knowledge of Your environment and the ability to improvise/adapt and Most Important a cool head under stress ,one man can halt an armored column for a time and destroy some equipment provided he knows the right Bait , how to use it and when !!! I sure hope i don`t have to open the fourth box ,i have had my fill of those games and i am getting too old to play . Age and Treachery , words to think about . 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey 21 Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 All in all the shotgun would be my last pick just for the reason of the weight and size of the shells and range it has. i.e.: its easier to carry 20 rounds of 5.56 or 7.62 than 20 shells of 12 gauge. Either way no one really knows which singular firearm or cartridge is going to be the "best". Pick the one that you shoot best, are very familiar, won't slow or weigh you down, and it helps to know when to fight / make a stand / how to fight and to flee. Also know your situation / self preparedness and being good with maps and surviving off the land will help a lot. So in other words avoid confrontation when possible imo. There's a lot to consider than just a firearm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ben4345 123 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 My saiga, because it's under my bed and I have ammo for it, I know how to use it. Not sure the big deal is with that thought of, "AR15 because there everywhere here and LEO uses them" In my opinion, by the time you can even get a AR15 from someones dead pawls, you risk if it will even function correctly and if there is even ammo in it. There is also a risk that you stocked up on 5.56, go grab some ones ar-15 quickly load ammo.. oh it's not a 5.56 ar-15! Possibly blow your face off, let alone going out of your way to grab someones ar15 or ammo, you think they're dead because they were in the wrong place. If I see dead bodies laying there, I am likely going to near that area! I used to work inside a police precinct, one of the bigger ones, I went to go in the storage closet where they keep extra ammo. Can you guess how they have? Hint: under 1000 of 5.56! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Kenny 144 Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 SHTF? 12gage for 'close encounters' and the PSL (and friends Nagants) for reach-out-and-touch-someone. ARs are everywhere, but I'd be using them for spare parts if I 'found' a few. Lots of small parts that are easy to break, compared to an AK. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scuba Steve SA 1 Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Well, based on my location I personally would steer clear of any AR style platform. There just aren't enough around for me to be happy that spare parts would be available. Also, I have only seen a couple made use of in idpa matches and each time one or more failed every couple of rounds, ftf and fte issues. Not fun in a zombie dawn scenario. Nothing against the platform, I know it can run well if set up nicely, and I will own one one day just not my go to gun. Like I said, anything with an ak style system, be it an actual ak, my saiga, an LM series or even an R series of rifle would be great. But, I would look for a 223/5.56, 7.62x39 is like hens teeth here unless ytou have old stock and were a warlord at some point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mgconnor13 206 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I go back and forth but I come back to the AR15 because it was the first long gun I was trained on. AKs are great and I'm comfortible with them but I'm much faster and smoother with my AR 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
siminov 164 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Good cheap Romanian sar1. Dependable and if it gets lost then you dig up one of the other 20 you got buried in the woods. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jcx39 28 Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 My AK and my food! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wpflgun 3 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Not THIS argument again... [words, words, words...] I still would rather have a Sig 556. All the advantages of both worlds. Where you been Floyd? This particular argument is really, really old. Must have missed it the first, second, third and fourth time around... This is EXACTLY the reason my Saiga is chambered in .223/5.56... Plus with a bit of modification I'm able to run AR mags if it came to that (I run Galils, and I have a LOT of them!) At roughly 1/2 the cost of an unmodified Sig (although they are eye candy!), I have a highly modified and specialized tool. (That isn't your run of the mill "spray and pray" AK) Can you say BOOYAA? That is exactly why I wanted an AK chambered in .223, adapted for AR mags. AK reliability and toughness, adapter for the ever present AR mags and .223 ammo. As for those who stated that we can't expect military or LEOs to be on our side or to supply us: if that occurs there will be enough encounters from which to scavenge mags and ammo off the deceased traitors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Yes, I know this poll is 3 years old, but after reading some of the responses to it, I can't help myself... Select-fire AK is the obvious choice. For those who said they'd prefer a semi-auto Saiga to conserve ammo... you do realize that "select-fire" means you have the choice of semi or full rock'n'roll, right?! FA allows the most effective suppressive fire, which is a damn nice ability to have. If you're down to scrounging and scavenging .223, chances are you'll be able to pick up a rifle to fire it as well; just check the other side of the corpse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I have M4gery, AK (semi), FAL, and S12 available with ammo for all so the actual situation would influence which I would grab. All have been fired extensively and proven reliable. A note on semi vs full... There are damn few shtf scenarios where full auto is better than semi. I will stick to semi. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 ...A note on semi vs full... There are damn few shtf scenarios where full auto is better than semi. I will stick to semi. That's the point of select-fire, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Of the choices in this poll, only the "AK-47" gives you that option. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 ...A note on semi vs full... There are damn few shtf scenarios where full auto is better than semi. I will stick to semi. That's the point of select-fire, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Of the choices in this poll, only the "AK-47" gives you that option. Since we are all aware that there is such a thing as select-fire (not sure why we're using italics...), we are certainly all aware that one of the options that can be selected is full auto. My point is that even if it's available, full auto isn't necessary, or even desirable in the majority of shtf scenarios. The presence or absence of select fire makes no difference to my statement. If you're in a shtf situation where one bullet per trigger pull isn't sufficient you're probably already dead. The point of select-fire is because sometimes in a war you need full auto. But the question wasn't about war. In a shtf scenario you won't have dozens or hundreds of enemies to deal with at one time. If you do you're a fool to engage them. You also won't have resupply after you burn through your ammo. I am perfectly happy with my semi-autos. If the s was hitting the f and a select-fire AK was laying beside my semi I'd grab my semi. If you asked me about going to war my answer would be different. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 i wouldnt use an assault rifle for suppressive fire. id leave that to the belt fed guns. conserving ammo is a necessity. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 i wouldnt use an assault rifle for suppressive fire. id leave that to the belt fed guns. conserving ammo is a necessity. Assuming you're talking about war if you have belt-feds along, so in a battle situation... As I said, I believe in aimed fire. 30 rounds in a mag means I might be able to kill 30 bad guys. Well, a guy can dream... I do have a slight bias in that area based on my Scarlet and Gold background. Every Marine is a Rifleman. There are still times when facing numbers of bad guys that it would be nice to be able to launch more than one bullet with one trigger pull. Especially if they're cooperative enough to bunch up. Doesn't qualify as suppressive fire, unless you consider killing bad guys "suppressing" them. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mohawk Bob 26 Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 I would go with a saiga 12 in part due to ammo availability and also in a SHTF situation most likely you will be dealing with close quarters. With that being said I think a 12 gauge wins. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
supertex 242 Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 I would go with a saiga 12 in part due to ammo availability and also in a SHTF situation most likely you will be dealing with close quarters. With that being said I think a 12 gauge wins. and a Vepr 12 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mohawk Bob 26 Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 I would go with a saiga 12 in part due to ammo availability and also in a SHTF situation most likely you will be dealing with close quarters. With that being said I think a 12 gauge wins. and a Vepr 12 Agreed! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
socom688 217 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 AK-101 (Saiga 5.56) baby! That was I can use NATO rounds and still have the AK's rugged reliability. Like previously mentioned, the S-12 would be heavy as fawk and the AK-47 would not have as much ammo available to it, and the AR is a picky gun. So, best of both worlds, AK-101 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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