teddy12b 0 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Why are you asking on a Saiga forum, if you don't want "Saiga" as an answer? "Accuracy" has almost nothing to do with the gun and everything to do with the person shooting it. You'll be best off (in both price and quality) with a Saiga rifle in 7.62x39. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
teddy12b 0 Posted June 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Why are you asking on a Saiga forum, if you don't want "Saiga" as an answer? "Accuracy" has almost nothing to do with the gun and everything to do with the person shooting it. You'll be best off (in both price and quality) with a Saiga rifle in 7.62x39. That's why I asked under the "Other AK Rifles". I'm very open to buying a Saiga, but was curious about what all the ak47 people thought would be the best fit for what I'd be looking for. I'm well versed in other rifles like AR's, bolt actions, and lever actions, but I was hoping for people more knowledgable on the ak47 to give some friendly advice. I understand that accuracy has a lot to do with the shooter, but I'd like to know what brand/country/type of ak47 is the most accurate out of the box. Similar to how savage's are in the bolt action world, except I don't expect that kind of accuracy out of an ak obviously. I have no problem buying the saiga, but I'd lean towards a conventional ak47 because of all the aftermarket support. What the price difference between a Saiga mag and a AK47, and what the difference between being able to find them or not? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) I have no problem buying the saiga, but I'd lean towards a conventional ak47 because of all the aftermarket support. I find this extremely amusing. FACT: A Saiga IS an "AK47" (a civilian AK-103, more precisely). Need proof? Look here --> http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=13290 What the price difference between a Saiga mag and a AK47, and what the difference between being able to find them or not? I can tell you've not looked around here one little bit. With allowances for 922r and some minor adjustments, any AK47/AKM/AK-103/AK-104 magazine works fine in a Saiga 7.62x39 rifle. Why don't you take some some to look around this forum, particularly the Saiga 7.62x39 subforum. I highly suspect ALL of your questions will be answered (including some you've not thought of yet). Edited June 4, 2009 by nalioth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
teddy12b 0 Posted June 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I have no problem buying the saiga, but I'd lean towards a conventional ak47 because of all the aftermarket support. I find this extremely amusing. FACT: A Saiga IS an "AK47" (a civilian AK-103, more precisely). Need proof? Look here --> http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=13290 What the price difference between a Saiga mag and a AK47, and what the difference between being able to find them or not? I can tell you've not looked around here one little bit. With allowances for 922r and some minor adjustments, any AK47/AKM/AK-103/AK-104 magazine works fine in a Saiga 7.62x39 rifle. Why don't you take some some to look around this forum, particularly the Saiga 7.62x39 subforum. I highly suspect ALL of your questions will be answered (including some you've not thought of yet). I'm not trying to be a smart alec, but no kidding. Of course the saiga is an AK47, that's why I'm asking about them here under the Other AK Rifles section. I'm not trying to limit myself to just that saiga's and I'm trying to leave the door open to other options if people think it'd be a better fit. Is that concept not clear or not getting through somehow? I haven't searched this website to its ends because I don't have all day for that. I look at midway, gunbroker and other places for my pricing references, but I still ask because there's always a new website popping up with better deals, just like 44mag.com did when they opened up. Does that kind of make sense? I appreciate the help, but if your vote is for a saiga please just say so. That's really all I'm looking for. As far as compliance parts go, I don't know anything about that and I will research it. I was hoping to buy a rifle where I wouldn't have to be changing parts, but I have some more reading to do beforehand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I'm not trying to be a smart alec, but no kidding. Of course the saiga is an AK47, that's why I'm asking about them here under the Other AK Rifles section. I'm not trying to limit myself to just that saiga's and I'm trying to leave the door open to other options if people think it'd be a better fit. Is that concept not clear or not getting through somehow? The Romanian WASR has long been built from factory 2nds that didn't make military QC. Today the Romanians are cutting up their stockpiles of used military rifles and rebuilding them as WASRs. The American offerings of "Romanian AKs" are similarly made from used military rifles. The Saiga is of all new construction and doesn't have a rejected part in it. I haven't searched this website to its ends because I don't have all day for that. I look at midway, gunbroker and other places for my pricing references, but I still ask because there's always a new website popping up with better deals, just like 44mag.com did when they opened up. Does that kind of make sense? Those sites are all extant to SELL you something. They are gonna candy coat every product they sell (even if - in reality - it sucks). I would highly suggest you take some time and look over the section I posted earlier. Rushing into decisions isn't a wise path. I appreciate the help, but if your vote is for a saiga please just say so. That's really all I'm looking for. As far as compliance parts go, I don't know anything about that and I will research it. I was hoping to buy a rifle where I wouldn't have to be changing parts, but I have some more reading to do beforehand. You'll be ahead of the game by purchasing a Saiga and spending an hour 'changing parts'. I will not be the only one here to tell you that, either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aresv 49 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Just seconding what Nalioth said. Starting with a modern Saiga rifle will get you the best quality AK possible, with the only (minor) negative being that it comes from the gun shop in a sporterized configuration. If you don't mind searching high and low and possibly paying scalper's prices for something ELSE that's also good quality, I would recommend Valmets and Norincos. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kope007 14 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) If I recall somewhere here there was a topic that referenced some articles that ranked aks and a converted saiga was 2nd or third. with the ones above it being $1000+ arsenals and the like. For @ $600 you can have a brand new russian ak. used wasrs are going for more than that. I think its a no brainer unless you've got the jack to spend on an arsenal. Edited June 4, 2009 by kope007 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 If I recall somewhere here there was a topic that ranked aks and a converted saiga was 2nd or third. with the ones above it being $1000+ arsenals and the like.For @ $600 you can have a brand new russian ak. used wasrs are going for more than that. I think its a no brainer unless you've got the jack to spend on an arsenal. Arsenal artificially inflates their prices by manipulating the market with both advertising and sales techniques. Arsenals are not worth anywhere what they're asking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kope007 14 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) I have no experience with them (arsenals), and I recall you making those points. I'll take your word for it, that they are not worth it. That helps to prove the Saiga point, that they are the best for cost to quality. here is the thread that i was refering to. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=23366 Edited June 4, 2009 by kope007 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Any Saiga will be more accurate than Most other Eastern Bloc AKs out there... The only AK-Style platform I'd rather have is a Valmet 95. Also, If you want accuracy, you'll find that AMMO has more to do with it than these rifles do. I can shoot Steel-Cased Brown Bear .308 and get 7" groups @ 100 or FGMM .308 and get 1" groups. If you want a good selection of Cheaper to shoot Steel-cased, but want the option of getting match-grade ammo, I'd recommend the .223.... BUT, I don't own a .223 because I only wanted a 3MOA rifle, so I got the 7.62x39. ~SN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 For you teddy12B - an Arsenal SGL-20. You won't have to do any messy parts changing and you will be happy. Of course you're going to spend a few bucks for the priviledge but that's O.K. Check around and they can be had for $840 or so. 1911 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 the serbian, formerly yugoslavian, Zastavas have a bulged trunnion and usually heavier receiver (depending on who reassembled it in the US) and has a grenade valve to turn off the gas system, which will make for a very accurate single shot, and then can be turned back on for an automatic action. All around nice guns, but keep an eye on the condition of the barrel if you find one, some of them were shot out entirely in the surplus guns in some "little war" they had. Barring that, or presuming you want a new gun, Saiga is the way to go. Arsenals are no better quality than any other mass production reassembled import gun, and are much more expensive. a better bet, and if you want it done right, find a good kit and have a reputable gunsmith (Lancaster Arms or Arizona Response Systems) assemble it for you in a configuration you like. There are alot of options in the ak world, its just a matter of what you want. The saiga is a good economical choice of great quality. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Henn 0 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 +1 for ReverendFranz advise on the Yugos Don't get me wrong, I like my Saiga 7.62 but I'm a huge fan of the Yugos. The Yugos just feel like a tank and are noticably more accurate than most of my 7.62 Kalashnikovs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BKLYN_C 14 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Did you all miss the OP specifications? 1.5 MOA AK To get this kind of accuracy you will have to get a custom barrel, or get very-very lucky when picking up a new gun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 BKLYN C, My .308 v.21 is a 1.5MOA rifle with good ammo. My .30-06 will shoot 2 MOA with Greek Surplus. Like I said, shooting WOLF steel ammo, you'll get 3MOA, if you go to Federal Match ammo, or reload your own, you can get 1.5" no prob.... BUT, that being said, to do so you'd need .223 or .308. It's hard to find x39 Match ammo. ~SN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,090 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Did you all miss the OP specifications? 1.5 MOA AK To get this kind of accuracy you will have to get a custom barrel, or get very-very lucky when picking up a new gun I fully agree, you will find that AK rifles that shoot anywhere near your stated specification will usually seem to exist only the Internet. I have seen an AK in real life that will shoot better then 2.5MOA and I have seen and shot a lot of AKs. They may well be out there, I have read the reports, I have just never seen them... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
whitetrashrn 74 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) I liked the Idea of having a brand new Saiga 7.62. Mine (with me behind it) doesn't shoot as well as the OP specified but after a hour of converting the gun was great. It was not that expensive, was new, learned a lot by converting, and met a lot of cool people here to help. Nalioth was correct in reading the 7.62 and other sections here and you WILL find the answer. Edited June 5, 2009 by whitetrashrn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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