AustinL911 0 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Now that I've got one 8" S12 outta the way (thanks Tony ), I'm starting to think about what I want to do with my 2nd S12. I'm thinking I want to use it as more of an all around 'fun gun'. So far, I'm thinking: -12" barrel w/ necessary gas mods -Internally threaded for slim line Tru-Chokes, externally threaded for a Tromix Competition Brake -fixed stock (Possibly a Tromix w/ LS, or I might look into putting some sort of recoil absorbing stock on it.) -Kobra side mounted red dot Ok, so I'm needing two thing from you guys; 1. Pictures of some 12" Saigas (I searched and can't find any, but I know they're out there) 2. Any idea on how to go about modding the gas system, or how much? What all is involved? -Cut off muzzle end of barrel by 5", giving barrel a length of 12" from chamber, onward -Shorten gas tube by 5" (?) -Does the piston need shortened as well? If so, how much? I've got an email into Red Stick to see about them doing the conversion, but, if it's not toooooooooo involved, I might attempt it myself, just for shits and giggles. My main concern is getting the gas system right so that it'll run the low brass stuff. What say you? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spicoli 12 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 12 inches are just right! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) I say, "Get you one!!!" But this one's mine . . . Edited June 5, 2009 by Raoul_Duke Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 For those girls who say, "12"s just isn't enough." I whip out my 19"... ..................... /Me runs away laughing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rightwingnut 0 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I thought you could make a 12" w/ only cutting barrel & adding and/or enlarging gas ports??? Didn't think you had to mess w/ the piston, rod & gas tube??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I thought you could make a 12" w/ only cutting barrel & adding and/or enlarging gas ports??? Didn't think you had to mess w/ the piston, rod & gas tube??? I believe that is correct, BUT I also believe you will only be able to run high brass loads and there will be quite a bit of fouling due to the enlarged ports. I think that's what Tony said a while ago . . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 You can build one without moving the block, and it may work. Tony moves the block. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rightwingnut 0 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 so to move tbe block you would have to cut the gas tube, cut the op rod & rethread & move the gas block & drill new gas ports in the barrel & maybe the gas block, & cover the old gas ports if they are still there. How does the gas block attach to the barrel? At least isince the barrel is extrued you don't have to reprofile it to move the gas block right? Is tony still backed up till 2017? Is there anyone else that can do the shortening? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AustinL911 0 Posted June 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 so to move tbe block you would have to cut the gas tube, cut the op rod & rethread & move the gas block & drill new gas ports in the barrel & maybe the gas block, & cover the old gas ports if they are still there. Pretty much How does the gas block attach to the barrel? Pressed and pinned At least isince the barrel is extrued you don't have to reprofile it to move the gas block right? Nope. Gotta reprofile the part of the barrel behind the factory GB position (it's thicker) Is tony still backed up till 2017? Is there anyone else that can do the shortening? After making this thread, I stumbled onto a few VERY informative posts in the conversion/tech forum. According to the Tromix guys, Tony moves the entire gas system 2" rearward for guns in the 11"+ range, and 3.75" rearward for the 8-10" guns. For my application (12"), it looks fairly straight-forward and nowhere near as complicated as I was making it out to be. My main problem being, I don't have access to a machine shop, so, I'll have to send the barrel and gas system out for the mods or find a local machine shop and guide them through what I want; everything else I can handle. So, for those who are interested, here's what I'm going to do: -Chop barrel to the 12" mark. -Weld up factory gas holes in barrel; smooth welds. -Redrill 3 new gas holes (angling rearward) in barrel 2" rearward from factory position, I'm thinking 0.095" dia. for improved low brass cycling (factory is 3 holes 0.073" dia.) -chop 2" off the rear/smooth part of the gas tube. -Either Chop 2" out of the middle of the piston rod and re-weld it, or find a 2" shorter aftermarket version (if they make them) -Turn down the 2" of barrel behind the gas block (via lathe) to necessary diameter. -Internally thread barrel for Slim Line Tru-Chokes -Rethread exterior of barrel for Tromix brake. [i think that's everything. I'm sure I'll find more once I actually start delving into it] Am I missing anything? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AustinL911 0 Posted June 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) You can build one without moving the block, and it may work. Tony moves the block. Then Austin will be moving the block. BTW, I think it was your post in the tech section that compiled all of Tony's previous posts regarding his gas system mods. It's going to make my life much easier now that I've got a general idea how to do it. Thanks. Edited June 6, 2009 by AustinL911 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 After making this thread, I stumbled onto a few VERY informative posts in the conversion/tech forum. According to the Tromix guys, Tony moves the entire gas system 2" rearward for guns in the 11"+ range, and 3.75" rearward for the 8-10" guns. For my application (12"), it looks fairly straight-forward and nowhere near as complicated as I was making it out to be. My main problem being, I don't have access to a machine shop, so, I'll have to send the barrel and gas system out for the mods or find a local machine shop and guide them through what I want; everything else I can handle. So, for those who are interested, here's what I'm going to do: -Chop barrel to the 12" mark. -Weld up factory gas holes in barrel; smooth welds. -Redrill 3 new gas holes (angling rearward) in barrel 2" rearward from factory position, I'm thinking 0.095" dia. for improved low brass cycling (factory is 3 holes 0.073" dia.) -chop 2" off the rear/smooth part of the gas tube. -Either Chop 2" out of the middle of the piston rod and re-weld it, or find a 2" shorter aftermarket version (if they make them) -Turn down the 2" of barrel behind the gas block (via lathe) to necessary diameter. -Internally thread barrel for Slim Line Tru-Chokes -Rethread exterior of barrel for Tromix brake. [i think that's everything. I'm sure I'll find more once I actually start delving into it] Am I missing anything? I think you've go it covered. Or at least, almost. I don't know exactly what Tony uses to replace the piston rod, but I can take a picture of mine. I don't think he'd mind due to the fact he has given out so much of his knowledge/tips/tricks. But he doesn't just replace the rod with an identical shorter one or just chop it down . . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rightwingnut 0 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) I see tony isn't tanking orders till 2011. Unless there is someone else who can do it, I may just try lopping the barrel & maybe adding ports & seeing how it works. Then if it doesn't, I can always send it to someone who can do it better. It if works, I guess the only down side would be I would have to clean it, especially the piston, more frequently. sort of like a short barreled AR, w/ the shorter post port barrel, you have less dwell time to impart the enegry to the carrier, so you need give it a sharper, stiffer burst of pressure. This is pretty much the case whether you move the port or not, though you attain it by different means. Edited June 6, 2009 by rightwingnut Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rightwingnut 0 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 ...Am I missing anything? I think you've go it covered. Or at least, almost. I don't know exactly what Tony uses to replace the piston rod, but I can take a picture of mine. I don't think he'd mind due to the fact he has given out so much of his knowledge/tips/tricks. But he doesn't just replace the rod with an identical shorter one or just chop it down . . . Please post those pics Mr Duke. Also, OP, please let us know how it goes? I probably won't get to my project for a while b/c I have "pistols" that i need to register as SBR first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rightwingnut 0 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Oh, & I forgot. Twelve inches! I don't fold it in half for nobody! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 ...Am I missing anything? I think you've go it covered. Or at least, almost. I don't know exactly what Tony uses to replace the piston rod, but I can take a picture of mine. I don't think he'd mind due to the fact he has given out so much of his knowledge/tips/tricks. But he doesn't just replace the rod with an identical shorter one or just chop it down . . . Please post those pics Mr Duke. Well, I thought I'd give it a little time to allow Tony time to object. That and I've been busy . . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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