775Patriot 0 Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I was wondering if there is a difference between Chaos gas piston and KA's gas tappet as far as performance is concerned? I'm sure you probably can't go wrong with either but, was just curious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I was wondering if there is a difference between Chaos gas piston and KA's gas tappet as far as performance is concerned? I'm sure you probably can't go wrong with either but, was just curious.I've used all three, original, Chaos and KA... They all worked, no noticeable performance differences.I'm going to have to give it to KA based on, it's fit within the gas block, it's design which is supposed to maximize its use of available gas & the material of which it is constructed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TronJohn 1 Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Do saiga 12 have a piston normally, or is this an upgrade? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Etek 32 Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Do saiga 12 have a piston normally, or is this an upgrade? All Saiga 12s have the gas piston. Folks change them to be 922® compliant as it's by far the easiest part to change. So far as an 'upgrade' the word is maybe. Some aftermarket pistons have a dish cut into the gas face to allow more surface area which logically contributes to better efficiency. Are they better? I'll let those that own them say yes or no. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 (edited) Do saiga 12 have a piston normally, or is this an upgrade?Normal, the gun won't cycle without it.Puck or piston? According to the manufacturer, the actual piston is the puck/tappet, not the piston attached to the bolt carrier. There are two aftermarket pucks which serve as 922r compliance parts, the Chaos & King Armory, and the KA tappet (puck) due to its design also serves as a upgrade The S12 is a little different from most piston driven semi-autos, in that it has a gas puck (tappet) in the gas block which operates the bolt carrier's piston, rather than the piston being directly gas driven. Edited June 12, 2009 by ChileRelleno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Do saiga 12 have a piston normally, or is this an upgrade?Normal, the gun won't cycle without it.Puck or piston? According to the manufacturer, the actual piston is the puck/tappet, not the piston attached to the bolt carrier. There are two aftermarket pucks which serve as 922r compliance parts, the Chaos & King Armory, and the KA tappet (puck) due to its design also serves as a upgrade The S12 is a little different from most piston driven semi-autos, in that it has a gas puck (tappet) in the gas block which operates the bolt carrier's piston, rather than the piston being directly gas driven. Just out of curosity how many ports does your gun have? Its my understanding that the KA puck was to help undergassed guns. My 4 port has never given me need to use anything other than a standard puck. I wish i had a solid base of using both products like yourself to better add to this conversation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) Do saiga 12 have a piston normally, or is this an upgrade?Normal, the gun won't cycle without it.Puck or piston? According to the manufacturer, the actual piston is the puck/tappet, not the piston attached to the bolt carrier. There are two aftermarket pucks which serve as 922r compliance parts, the Chaos & King Armory, and the KA tappet (puck) due to its design also serves as a upgrade The S12 is a little different from most piston driven semi-autos, in that it has a gas puck (tappet) in the gas block which operates the bolt carrier's piston, rather than the piston being directly gas driven. Just out of curosity how many ports does your gun have? Its my understanding that the KA puck was to help undergassed guns. My 4 port has never given me need to use anything other than a standard puck. I wish i had a solid base of using both products like yourself to better add to this conversation. Mines a three (3) port.Really, no noticeable performance differences between the three pucks, but very noticeable differences in how they fit in the gas block. Russkie puck, great fit, slides easily within the block, fouling after several hundred rounds necessitated forcible removal. Chaos puck, a bitch to get past the threads, moved freely in the block, any removal required manual manipulation/tapping with a rod & fouling after several hundred rounds necessitated forcible removal. * KA puck(s), *1st one initially fit kind'a tight past threads, moved freely in the block, any removal required manual manipulation & fouling after several hundred rounds necessitated forcible removal. After approx 400 rnds, had issues with removal and subsequent re-installation, puck showed out of spec defects, unkown whether they were incurred during manufacture or normal usage. *2nd one fits great, easy to insert/remove & moves freely within the gas block. Have not had a chance to test this one. *Design may pose a potential problem with damage to gas block threads if care is not taken during removal when fouled. Since tolerances are so loose, YMMV, mine has. Edited June 13, 2009 by ChileRelleno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voonman 133 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Do saiga 12 have a piston normally, or is this an upgrade?Normal, the gun won't cycle without it.Puck or piston? According to the manufacturer, the actual piston is the puck/tappet, not the piston attached to the bolt carrier. There are two aftermarket pucks which serve as 922r compliance parts, the Chaos & King Armory, and the KA tappet (puck) due to its design also serves as a upgrade The S12 is a little different from most piston driven semi-autos, in that it has a gas puck (tappet) in the gas block which operates the bolt carrier's piston, rather than the piston being directly gas driven. Just out of curosity how many ports does your gun have? Its my understanding that the KA puck was to help undergassed guns. My 4 port has never given me need to use anything other than a standard puck. I wish i had a solid base of using both products like yourself to better add to this conversation. Mines a three (3) port.Really, no noticeable performance differences between the three pucks, but very noticeable differences in how they fit in the gas block. Russkie puck, great fit, slides easily within the block, fouling after several hundred rounds necessitated forcible removal. Chaos puck, a bitch to get past the threads, did not move freely in the block, any removal required manual manipulation/tapping with a rod & fouling after several hundred rounds necessitated forcible removal. * KA puck(s), *1st one initially fit kind'a tight past threads, barely moved in the block, any removal required manual manipulation & fouling after several hundred rounds necessitated forcible removal. After approx 400 rnds, had issues with removal and subsequent re-installation, puck showed out of spec defects, unkown whether they were incurred during manufacture or normal usage. *2nd one fits great, easy to insert/remove & moves freely within the gas block. Have not had a chance to test this one. *Design may pose a potential problem with damage to gas block threads if care is not taken during removal when fouled. Since tolerances are so loose, YMMV, mine has. When you say fouling do you mean the gun jams after several hundred rounds through it?..or do you mean it is a bitch to remove when you are trying to clean your gun? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gkcf 8 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 In my experience, fouling would indicate just that. Fouling. Dirt. Ick. Residue. So, I'm pretty sure thats what he meant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 When you say fouling do you mean the gun jams after several hundred rounds through it?..or do you mean it is a bitch to remove when you are trying to clean your gun? Bitch to remove for cleaning. The only operational problem I've seen related to fouling in the gas block was when using low brass, simple fix, increase the gas. This occurred when using my Gunfixr plu on the lowest setting, I then simply had to advance the setting. See this thread, http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...4&hl=cherry I started with the Fiocchi, set my Gunfixer plug on 1+, cycled it just fine.Switched to the Winchester Super X 00, same setting, same result, and so forth with the rest of the ammo. 10-25 yards, 00 Buck, I was eating up the silhouettes. 50-75 yards, Slugs, nailing 4x4x24 wooden blocks at 50 yards, murdering silhouettes at 75 yards. That lasted for about 50-60 rounds, then I started experiencing some failure to feed. I switched to setting #2 on the Gunfixer, and once again ate everything. Out of curiousity, I disassembled the gas system, and found a lot of wad residue, carbon/powder residue in with the gas puck. The puck was very hard to move, even using a rod, it was not moving freely. I had noticed that the Chaos plug was tighter than the OEM, but it moved freely in a clean chamber. I had to forcibly knock the puck out in order to clean the gas system. After cleaning, it once again cycled on setting 1+. Another 40-45 rnds later, it apparently fouled again, minor FtF issues, switched to setting #2 and kept hammering my targets. I fired another 45-50rnds, for a total of 150rnds, with no other FtF issues on #2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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