Should i get .223?

[cubesmoothie 1]

Hi i'm bran new to the saiga 12 forums. I originally planned on getting an ak47 in 7.62, then i was shown the saiga series. First off i'm glad i found out about saiga, as a 12 or 20 guage in ak47 is just flat out genious i can see these saiga's being extreemly good weapons all around. I know the reliability of an ak47 is unmatched amongst other firearms.

 

Now i'm not sure what to get for my first saiga. depends...

 

The main reason i want a .223 caliber rifle is for the lower recoil, greater accuracy and range than what 7.62 offers. Do these .223 advantages ring true in the saigas? I ask because the .223 rifles are still built on an ak47 platform, so the moving parts i expect to create more recoil than your average say, ar15 or ranch rifle. Accuracy out of an ak47 version of .223 will it be greatly affected by the flopping barrel? Will it be worth getting a .223 saiga for accuracy or should i pay some extra money and get a ruger mini or ar-15? I love the idea of saving money by using saigas, and the utter invincibility of ak47 style firearms to the elements. Just want to know how the saiga 223 matches up to other semi auto 223 rifles that people seem to enjoy so much.

 

I know i'll eventually get every type of saiga out there but i am just now going to start up my rifle collection, TY!

[karateman 0]

I like my saiga .223

 

I dont know about being perfectly accurate, but I have been able to hit a 7lb cat litter jug, 2 or 3 times out of 10 shots out at 200yds since that is the limit of the range I go to, and that seems more than fine for me. That cat litter container just a tad bigger than the average Head I would guess. I am not that great of a shot to begin with either, but if I had to lay down fire, I think it would work.

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

I've shot the Mini-14 and Mini-30 and they are "alright" for accuracy. The Saiga in .223 seems to be a bit better to me in the accuracy. Sighting in my scope tonight I shot a 3 shot group, in a 1/2" black dot and they are all overlaping holes. Thought I had missed the target completely for a while. Went up to see how far off I had to re-adjust the scope now, and they were all in the black, and almost all in the same hole. Seems pretty reasonable to me. I was re sighting the rifle, after I had the scope mout off of it for a bit, and remouted the base and scope. It's an EAA import, and has reputation of having a heavier barrel than the RAAC imports.

[dobravery 49]

Do you plan on converting the rifle?

Is money a factor?

You will spend twice as much on quality 223 mags as you would for 7.62 39. That adds up if you plan on buying 10 mags or so.

The 7.62x39 recoil isn't so bad and you adjust to it. A good muzzle brake could help as well.

[cubesmoothie 1]

Do you plan on converting the rifle?

Is money a factor?

You will spend twice as much on quality 223 mags as you would for 7.62 39. That adds up if you plan on buying 10 mags or so.

The 7.62x39 recoil isn't so bad and you adjust to it. A good muzzle brake could help as well.

 

 

I see a lot of "converting" going on but i dont know exactly what that means sorry. Feel like im missing out on something there that could be important. Are the magazines that come with it not quality? I hear they are 10 capacity which is fine for me. I like to shoot slugs out of my rossi 20 guage, light little gun. The recoil of a 7.62 doesnt scare me.

 

I am going to get an ak variant in 7.62, most likely a SAIGA because of the price. I will also get a .223 rifle for the superior accuracy. Both cartridges are cheap enough for me to practice with the rifles pretty often without making it feeling like a waste of money. AK 47's are the most reliable rifle platform out there, so when i find out saiga make's an ak variant in .223 for much cheaper than an AR-15 i'm very curious (and hopefull) about SAIGA's accuracy with the 223 variants. Is its accuracy more comparable to the AR-15 platform .223's or does it resemble more closely the accuracy of ak47's chambered in 7.62x39?

Edited June 29, 2009 by cubesmoothie

[mollysman420 19]

I am planning on buying another Saiga in 223 It is plenty accurate for my needs, you cant beat the sure relibality of an AK platform weapon

I also own 2 AR 15s off hand at 100 yards the shooter will play a bigger role in accuracy than the rifel!!! IMO

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

Last night I just shot a one hole 3 shot group with my Saiga .223 Suprised even me. It's a shooter, that's for sure.

Sure Fire magazines, that are excellent quality, are a bit pricy, but in 30 rd, you can load them down to 10, 15. 20, 25 or at full 30. No law says you have to fill it. I prefer not to shoot magazines at fullest capacity. I wanted a 20 rd, so bought a 30 so I can confortably put in 20 without over stressing the spring over time. If I need 30, it's there. You can't put 30 in a 20 rd, but you can put 15 in a 30 all day long.

 

Conversions is changing out the parts to US made to be and stay in compliance with draconian laws. It also improves the functionality of the weapon.

[loki0629 55]

I see a lot of "converting" going on but i dont know exactly what that means sorry.

 

"Converting" the stock saiga returns it to it's original AK configuration. In order for it to be imported into this country as a sportster type rifle, the trigger was moved back from where it sits in a standard AK. The trigger group has the addition of a linking system to allow for the longer distance between the trigger and the hammer. For some people this results in a mushy or vague sensation when the trigger actually breaks.

This also shifts the balance of the weapon so that it is very front heavy if you were to use the skeleton stock or the aftermarket pistol grip/stock combo that fits on a standard saiga. The primary reasons that people convert their weapons is to improve the trigger and to improve the handling characteristics of the weapon with a pistol grip. This is because restoring the trigger to it's proper place gets rid of the linking mechanism and makes the balance more neutral.

 

As far as the accuracy of the .223 saiga, your mileage may vary depending on how well you like the trigger, standard sights or deal with the issues that come up in using a side mounted scope. Personally, I can confidently hit a man sized target with iron sights on an AR at 500 yards. I don't think I could do that confidently with the saiga in .223. But at 100-300 yards I would give the slight edge on accuracy to the AR only because of the longer sight radius. The saiga has it beat on reliability and cost.

 

And finally, saiga's are like potato chips...you can't stop with just one. Go ahead and choose a caliber and I guarantee that you'll be back for another at some point. If you do decide to get a weapon to convert, make sure you shoot it first to identify any issues the rifle may have. One of the most common issues with the rifles is the front sight assembly is slightly canted. This does not happen often but it does happen.

[Neurosis 0]

Last night I just shot a one hole 3 shot group with my Saiga .223 Suprised even me. It's a shooter, that's for sure.

 

Darth, what distance were you shooting? Perspective helps, 10 ft, 25 yards, 50 yards, 100 yards?

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

Last night I just shot a one hole 3 shot group with my Saiga .223 Suprised even me. It's a shooter, that's for sure.

 

Darth, what distance were you shooting? Perspective helps, 10 ft, 25 yards, 50 yards, 100 yards?

I was 197 feet, which translates roughly to 65+ yards. Not anyting earth shattering, that is for sure, but that is about the limit of my "home on the range" range.. LOL I live on 10 acres, and the distance from North - South distance is 1330 feet, but I don't have any backstops set up out there on the South end. Where I shoot into is a big sand berm that is our septic system drain field. So I know bullets hitting there, stop there. Soft dirt and not hard surface.

 

Sorry I can't brag up the distance more, but it is what it is.

[dobravery 49]

I went with the S-223 over the AR because I knew I'd be shooting Wolf/Brown Bear steel ammo. A fair amount of AR shooters have trouble with the cheaper ammo's.

 

A good shooter with a S-223 will outshoot a mediocre AR shooter.

 

A major factor in Saiga accuracy can be the ammo. This is a factor if accuracy is a concern to you--since there is not a great variety in 7.62 x 39 match ammo.

[cubesmoothie 1]

I went with the S-223 over the AR because I knew I'd be shooting Wolf/Brown Bear steel ammo. A fair amount of AR shooters have trouble with the cheaper ammo's.

 

A good shooter with a S-223 will outshoot a mediocre AR shooter.

 

A major factor in Saiga accuracy can be the ammo. This is a factor if accuracy is a concern to you--since there is not a great variety in 7.62 x 39 match ammo.

 

 

TY for pointing that out it is important to me

[cubesmoothie 1]

I see a lot of "converting" going on but i dont know exactly what that means sorry.

 

"Converting" the stock saiga returns it to it's original AK configuration. In order for it to be imported into this country as a sportster type rifle, the trigger was moved back from where it sits in a standard AK. The trigger group has the addition of a linking system to allow for the longer distance between the trigger and the hammer. For some people this results in a mushy or vague sensation when the trigger actually breaks.

This also shifts the balance of the weapon so that it is very front heavy if you were to use the skeleton stock or the aftermarket pistol grip/stock combo that fits on a standard saiga. The primary reasons that people convert their weapons is to improve the trigger and to improve the handling characteristics of the weapon with a pistol grip. This is because restoring the trigger to it's proper place gets rid of the linking mechanism and makes the balance more neutral.

 

As far as the accuracy of the .223 saiga, your mileage may vary depending on how well you like the trigger, standard sights or deal with the issues that come up in using a side mounted scope. Personally, I can confidently hit a man sized target with iron sights on an AR at 500 yards. I don't think I could do that confidently with the saiga in .223. But at 100-300 yards I would give the slight edge on accuracy to the AR only because of the longer sight radius. The saiga has it beat on reliability and cost.

 

And finally, saiga's are like potato chips...you can't stop with just one. Go ahead and choose a caliber and I guarantee that you'll be back for another at some point. If you do decide to get a weapon to convert, make sure you shoot it first to identify any issues the rifle may have. One of the most common issues with the rifles is the front sight assembly is slightly canted. This does not happen often but it does happen.

Now i understand ty