Jump to content

FCG new idea or bad idea?


Recommended Posts

Just curious about something. I have been contemplating ideas to help the 308 nearly vertical trigger pull. And I DO NOT want to move the group. I was comparing my Saiga 223 and 308 and am just wondering if anyone has ever used a S223 style trigger linkage on a 308? It has a kind of 2 stage linkage but keeps the pull straight back. Obviously it would require drilling a couple holes that are not there, but I believe it would be worthwhile. Hence, if I can come across a group from a rifle that someone has moved the group on, I intend to attempt this. Ill need the entire group and pins. Anything else I will need?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, been talking to a friend that is a gunsmith and we are going to start on this project around the 13th of this month. I got a s223 trigger assembly and have been measuring recievers and micing parts and as far as i can tell its a go. I will keep posted if anyone is interested to see if we succeed or fail miserably.

Link to post
Share on other sites
i personally wouldnt do it but thats up to you

 

 

Why you say that? For those of us who dont want to move the trigger group, we need another option. Everyone is quick to say "just move your trigger group". To me it looks like about the same amount of work and I like the stock I have.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just curious about something. I have been contemplating ideas to help the 308 nearly vertical trigger pull. And I DO NOT want to move the group. I was comparing my Saiga 223 and 308 and am just wondering if anyone has ever used a S223 style trigger linkage on a 308? It has a kind of 2 stage linkage but keeps the pull straight back. Obviously it would require drilling a couple holes that are not there, but I believe it would be worthwhile. Hence, if I can come across a group from a rifle that someone has moved the group on, I intend to attempt this. Ill need the entire group and pins. Anything else I will need?

why did the russans make the 308s diffrent probably for a reason. I think you need to try it and let us know how it turns out

Link to post
Share on other sites

How is the .308 Saiga different in the trigger? I have a friend/ gun store that has 2 of them in .308 with the 22" barrel. I thought the trigger looked a little chincy. That is why I went with the .223 he had (imported by EAA, Coco Beach FL). Can the Tapco FCG G2 be put in the .308 as well?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The 223 and x39 have a "wishbone" actuated linkage trigger. Its 3 pieces, the trigger itself which pivots on a pin, the "wishbone" which also pivots on another pin, and the main group. The trigger rocks the wishbone which pulls up on the release. But, now the 308 has the traditional trigger group in the traditional place with a very NON traditional extended trigger lever that forces an upward trigger pull. 223 and x39 have a more normal straight back pull. As far as I know yes the tapco group will work in a conversion.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Porogress (lack of) update. Got a promotion at work and been out of town for a couple weeks for classes/training. Getting back to work on the trigger conversion. Having difficulty locating new axis pins for the trigger and wishbone. They are actually flat head semi tubular rivets. But nobody seems to have them in the size I need. 3/16 diameter x 1 3/8 or 1 7/16 will work as well. Cant get an answer at RAAC for some reason. Any thoughts on acquiring these pieces?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I'd skip the wishbone idea and just convert the trigger group with a Tapco G2 modified or one from Dazing. You can still keep your stock, but just a 19.00 pistol grip will really add to your holding and control.

Edited by Darth AkSarBen
Link to post
Share on other sites

1. more parts

2. will not improve the trigger pull

3. will put it back to using more Russian made pats and be harder to add a Pistol Grip and larger than 8 capacity magazine.

 

For all the effort to rebuild it into a version like the .223 or 7.69 that is imported, one could easily just convert it back to a fire control group similar to the other conversions, or retrofits. I have read that the .308 is probably the most simplest to do in this regard.

 

You can change it out as you wish, it really doesn't make any difference to me. My cousin one time brazed the tang on my old 30-30 lever action to fix the break that the stock attached to. Worked fine, but he forgot to take out the spring and the weld took out the temper of the spring. We shot that 30-30 after that with a heavy duty rubber band hooked to the front. Probably not the most asthetic or best way but it worked. If you want to use a paper clip, some springs and parts of an old Chevy to make the thing go bang, I certainly have no objections. Your Mileage May Vary.

Link to post
Share on other sites

1. No more parts than a 223 or x39

2. Will DRAMATICALLY improve trigger pull because it will be straight back rather than up into the reciever

3. I already have a pistol grip. The "saiga skeleton stock". I have NO desire to put a standard AK Pistol Grip on a 22 inch barrel rifle.

 

I am not rigging anything. No rubber bands, paperclips, or old chevy parts thank you.

 

Smart Ass remarks like this is are why forums get bad reputations. This thread was started to see if anyone had done this conversion or at least attempted it. And to let folks know I am going to attempt it. Not to have smart ass people act like Im building a jalopy from a junkyard just because Im not doing what everyone else is doing. I have done my research. This is far from the first mechanical engineering piece i have ever done.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

The example of the rubber band is true. I really did have a rubber band over the hammer and up the barrel a ways to assist that poor old weakend spring. Probably should have scoured around and found another 30-30 spring and just replaced it, but when you're 18, that didn't seem that much of a concern. Many folks make part, configure ideas and designs, and so on, and they work fine. It's just an analogy. You already have the wishbone parts, the other stuff, and the rest to make it into the way the Saiga's in 223 and 7.62 x 39 come from the factory. I have not seen the 308 trigger group, but you illustrate it as not very good, and even that would be in improvement then. You can do it that way if you want, it's just a lot of folks on this forum and on the internet have gone to great lengths to do away with that set up and go back to an original idea that was at the Izhmash factory for the AK-47s. ... sort of. Not fully auto, just semi auto.

 

You may be well served with a screw affair that has a hollow tube that I have seen at lowes and Menards. Looks like a rivet on one end, but then the flat head machine screw fits it on the other side forming sort of a 'tube' that may work for this idea, if it is strong enough. I would think you could just use roll pins and cut to length.

 

You may be the first person to do this backwards conversion, so there may not be a lot of others that can actually chime in.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a converted S-308, and can tell you with confidence that if you're just trying to get a better trigger pull, a true conversion is the easiest simplest way to get that. Sure you can rig it with a .223/x39 linkage pin set, but there's a reason you don't see normal guns with funky wishbone linkages and such. It adds friction and play exactly where you want neither.

 

That's about all I've got to say,

Acer

 

Best of luck with whatever you end up doing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be more work to do the type of mod you are suggesting and it would yield a trigger that is still rather inferior to a G2. An easier and more practical solution would be to move the trigger add a G2 and add a skeleton stock designed for the trigger to be in the right place.

 

It is your gun and you can obviously do what you want, don't expect a lot of people to think this is a real good idea though or not advise you of the short comings of your plan.

Link to post
Share on other sites

One nice thing about the 308 is the lack of the 4 holes in the rear of the receiver due to the odd trigger. Because of that, converting it back to proper factory is easier than the other Saigas in which you end up with those extra holes that need to be fillled.

 

Once you add those 2 new pins and the linkages, you are going to get that crappy pull from the weird 7.62/223 triggers.

 

The only way to go to make it right is to convert properly.

 

Seems like you will go though just as much labor to put the 7.62/223 trigger group in as you would to convert over to a pistol grip.

 

Seriously, reconsider.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

No Jetazero? I can't imagine putting a wishbone series back in that .308. He missed my point of parts. With the Tapco G2 you have 3 new U.S. parts as count toward the 922r. with that wishbone affair, you haven't gained anything. It's like taking a 'vette with a fuel injection engine and putting pulling the fuel injection and putting on a 2 barrel carb. Please pass the Darwin award button.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Bump...

 

I can think of a good reason not to move the trigger forward, length of pull for somebody with a wingspan of six feet.

 

Converted Saigas don't fit me right, but with the extra length added from the pistol grip block for non conversion pistol grips it is just about right, still needed to add a 1" recoil pad.

 

I could always convert this S308, the stock would work, being a DPH, pistol grip should work just fine too. But, it would be way too short for me. I guess I'm stuck with the whacky upward trigger pull that will hurt my accuracy... I guess thats why I have eight 25 round mags.

 

I do have an idea to make the trigger better though, wouldn't look nice, but just something that attaches the the current trigger and just converts the way its pulling.

 

I'll see how shitty this trigger is when I go to the range on Thursday(hopeful, I got some sort of sickness now) compared to the converted S12 I did... The trigger on my 12 guage is better than my 308, wtf!

 

(didn't proof read this, too sick to give a rats ass, me so sowwy in advanced for spelling and grammar)

Link to post
Share on other sites
i personally wouldnt do it but thats up to you

Why you say that? For those of us who dont want to move the trigger group, we need another option. Everyone is quick to say "just move your trigger group". To me it looks like about the same amount of work and I like the stock I have.

Everyone is quick to say it for the same reason that everyone says that 4+4=8. It is the right answer!

 

However, have fun doing it your own "unique" way! :rolleyes:

Edited by Azrial
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you trying to reinvent the reinvention....

 

I program, various side jobs, made some security systems for people and the likes, I have reinvented the reinvention so many times, well, you get it. You get something to work in 30 lines of code, it works, you are all stoked... After about 30 seconds you realize there was a function in the standard library that already did that. But hey, I can do it too!!

 

Well, any suggestions on how I could convert this and have it be long enough for me to use, short of a 3-4" recoil pad?? Without throwing away my awesome DPH stock in the process...

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have quite a long reach. I use my Tapco T6 Saiga (integrated) stock on my .308 and am able to keep it in the next to last hole in the positions. This is the stock that came with the pistol grip that screwed directly into the stock and as such was long to begin with. When I put it on my Saiga .308 people thought it would be too long. Quite the contrary. I have the pistol grip from the conversion and I have this stock on there as it gives me the reach I need. Just a thought.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have quite a long reach. I use my Tapco T6 Saiga (integrated) stock on my .308 and am able to keep it in the next to last hole in the positions. This is the stock that came with the pistol grip that screwed directly into the stock and as such was long to begin with. When I put it on my Saiga .308 people thought it would be too long. Quite the contrary. I have the pistol grip from the conversion and I have this stock on there as it gives me the reach I need. Just a thought.

 

Thats funny because I was originally going to go with the T6 but, well, there is a whole thread about why nobody would send it to me, even though I was going to pin it on the longest setting. Anyways, I'm glad I got the DPH stock, it looks badass, I would post some pics of it if the quality wasn't shit (cell phone camera, my money goes to guns and ammo, not cameras).

 

My S308 does look quite long but it fits me perfect in the configuration I have, I love it. At the range yesterday I was able to get around the shitty trigger by figuring out how much play was in it and pulling it back just about that much then breathing out and bang. Pretty good groups, all the the left though...

 

I'm sure there is a thread about it but am I to believe that I need to knock the pins out, and re-pin it to straighten out the whole FSB? Mines to the right, ALOT. With the windadge adjusted all the way to the left, I'm still to the left about 4-5 inches at 50 yards. That is no good at all in my book. Thats 10 inches at 100 yards/meters.

 

Anyone know of a good FSB for the S308 that I could put on myself, I have tools, but not a welder and specialty things. The front sight looks so rediculous with the center post all the way to the left. I want it right in the center looking like the quake logo it is supposed to look like :)

 

Thanks guys.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why don't you just move the front sight? There is a tool just for that, and it's not very expensive either.

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-128/sight-adjustment-tool-ak47/Detail Just one of them.... you can search some of our other ads on here as well, maybe even check a local gun store.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why don't you just move the front sight? There is a tool just for that, and it's not very expensive either.

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-128/sight-adjustment-tool-ak47/Detail Just one of them.... you can search some of our other ads on here as well, maybe even check a local gun store.

 

I just figured out you can knock the two pins out with the punch that came with it, guess thats what its for... Was a bitch to keep it aligned when I tried to punch them back in. The tools, they are for changing the middle post, right? The whole entire sight was to the right, so much that I could adjust it all the way to the left and it still shot to the left. There is a sight adjustment tool in the box with the S308. Thanks though.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 11 months later...

Hey Jett, how it all go for you?? I am pretty curious cause I also would rather not have to move up the pistol grip. With all the new grips available for Saigas without moving the trigger group you would think that one of those manufacturers would come up with a permanent solution, a US made special design or something. Maybe creativity in the gunsmithing business is just not at the same level as in other countries here. After all we have our soldiers still carry one of the most flawed assault rifle designs in history. From what it seems I may end up being forced to move the trigger and go crazy with a dremel on my beast but really like the stock I got. I have the SGM tactical stock but even they don't seem to have figured out to come out with a trigger to go with it. Pretty sad but maybe this is one of those mountains they cant tackle??

If there is no other way to fix the trigger without moving it they should put a warning on those stocks and the Dragunov style ones in the same category as well. Makes it a big waste of money. :(

Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe creativity in the gunsmithing business is just not at the same level as in other countries here. After all we have our soldiers still carry one of the most flawed assault rifle designs in history.

 

First off it doesn't have anything to do with a lack of creativity in the USA. Also, the political decision to adopt the M16/M4 as the standard issue rifle for the military has nothing to do with what civilian companies marketing aftermarket parts for AKs do. Almost all of these companies do not even sell ARs or AR parts, likewise Colt and other government contractors don't even make AK parts, so I am not sure how that's even remotely related to this situation. Second, aside from various new types of stocks and grips, or sizes of parts, etc. the core design of this gun is based off a 63 year old design still, it's an amazing design that works flawlessly to this day, but I'd hesitate to say making small improvements once every decade to a 63 year old design is "creative"

 

There is a lack of options with the trigger because the design itself just plain sucks back there. The only reason they even come into the country the way they do, if because of import laws. If it weren't for import laws, these guns would be arriving in the country with regular pistol grips and stocks, not to mention the various special stocks like the polymer side folder or the SVDS folder.

 

There are a bunch of options to add pistol grips and "evil" stocks without moving the trigger for people who choose to do so, but it is just a band-aid really. If that's your thing go for it, but none of the bolt on options do (or can) address the balance issues with the grip being too far rearwards, and whatever mods could be done to the trigger, are likely not as cheap or easy as simply removing the sporter plate and putting regular AK parts in.

Edited by Classy Kalashnikov
Link to post
Share on other sites

Porogress (lack of) update. Got a promotion at work and been out of town for a couple weeks for classes/training. Getting back to work on the trigger conversion. Having difficulty locating new axis pins for the trigger and wishbone. They are actually flat head semi tubular rivets. But nobody seems to have them in the size I need. 3/16 diameter x 1 3/8 or 1 7/16 will work as well. Cant get an answer at RAAC for some reason. Any thoughts on acquiring these pieces?

You may need to fabricate these from drill rod.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...

Don't listen to 'em Jett... I'm trying to do the same thing you're doing... and having the same challenges. I was working with Brian @ Dinzag; he was going to do the R&D and build me a drop in version (as close to as possible) of exactly what you're doing... that is until the machine shop that was milling a lot of his stuff had some misfortune.

Now I'm back to square one with a little more knowledge of the project and design, but no help to get 'er done.

Did you ever finish the project? Do you have any pics of the FCG?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Chatbox

    Load More
    You don't have permission to chat.
×
×
  • Create New...