Will there be a push to ban Saiga 12's. Your opinion?

[HarvKY 72]

I don't think there will be a gun ban. This administration is far too sneaky to just come and say we are taking your guns.

 

I think they will -

1. make ammo too expensive

2. you will need permits to buy ,and permits to sell. No more FTF,or gun shows.

3. everything will be registered

4. they will bury you in fees ,and penalties, and make laws that will scare you away from wanting the responsibility of owning a gun. God forbid you shoot someone threatening you in your own home.....you will wish you hadn't.

I pretty much agree. The days when you could just open up the newspaper classifieds, drive a couple miles, and go buy a 12ga and a 38 special with cash and no paperwork are long gone.

 

I think Bracko and company will re-instate the Clinton assault ban (no hi cap mags, no fold/ext stocks, etc), but other than that, they are likely to just slowly choke off gun/ammo buying with taxes and paperwork. Possilbly down the line, we may see some gun checks and penalty or confiscation at the ranges (for illegal guns, illegal mods, unregistered, etc). If that crap ever goes on for a few decades or generations, THEN the list of working guns with ammo supply might dwindle to the point where it might be possible to go door to door checking weapon legality/registration. The registration is what will be the downfall: if you are buying ammo or reload components for an illegal civilian gun or a gun calibur you aren't a registered owner of, or you are a registered owner who then gets in any kind of legal trouble, that could be their excuse for a knock on your door asking for your arms.

 

Once they get the wedge in the door, it gets pushed in sloooowly until there it's wide open. Ask Brits or Aussies.

 

First off, join NRA, and support pro gun reps with your votes - and $ if possible. I actually got joked on for wearing my newest NRA hat to the range last month (recently upgraded from per year to life member). What kind of idiot has $50 to buy a day's ammo and range fees but won't pony up half that once per year to join? Face it guys, America is run by lawyers... $, organized voting groups, and lobbyists do the talking. Pay to play, whether you like it or not.

 

Now is also not a bad time to make sure you have at least one or two reliable, low maintainence guns (pump shotgun, revolver, etc) that are either unregistered or reported lost/stolen... as well as good size ammo stock and/or reload skill + supplies in proper heat/humidity storage. Hope for the best, plan for the worst. Regardless of what happens, they are reliable guns, and a quality firearm or ammo in good condition almost always appreciates in value.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Boy is on the right track

 

Sly, Im simpatico with your thinking BUT the part about "reported lost/stolen" is very bad policy IMO - expecially to espouse in an open foum.

 

I think most folks definitely hold on to any weapon thats grandfathered in (so to speak) or that has been obtained legally but if found with any lost/reported stolen weapon, you are asking for big time problems

- at best I'm thinking probably search and seizure of everything you own (legal or not) just for them to check, etc.

 

Im sure a lawyer type can/will chime in but this is the type of statement that just gives anti gunners reason to push

 

 

Happy & safe 4th

Harv

[krusader 1]

There was a semi auto shotgun made by Daewoo industries, it was imported to the USA, it took 10 round mags and 20 round drums, the ATF suddenly decided to classify it as a " destructive device" (say what) The importer was USAS if I can remember correctly.

 

Now of course it is against federal law to own one unless you ( mark yourself ) register and pay the 200, if it can happen to one semi auto shotty it can happen to the Saiga.

Edited July 5, 2009 by krusader

[gunboy69 50]

There was a semi auto shotgun made by Daewoo industries, it was imported to the USA, it took 10 round mags and 20 round drums, the ATF suddenly decided to classify it as a " destructive device" (say what) The importer was USAS if I can remember correctly.

 

Now of course it is against federal law to own one unless you ( mark yourself ) register and pay the 200, if it can happen to one semi auto shotty it can happen to the Saiga.

 

 

This would be the fugly piece you are speaking of....we are very familiar with it here.

 

[jekbrown 14]

yeah, it seems most likely to me that we'll get a slightly massaged AWB. They will start pushing hard for it right after the 2010 elections so they can get it done with a bit of time before 2012 so things can 'quiet down' before the next election. IMO, there will be a couple of key differences between the 2010 ban and the 1994 ban.

 

1) No sunset. Perma ban.

 

2) The FTF and gunshow "loopholes" (yes, bullshit, I know) will be banned so the only way you'll legally be able to transfer a gun is via a licensed dealer.

 

they could toss in a few more a-hole ideas as well...limiting the # of guns you can buy in a given period, or a big tax on ammo or some crap like that. The whole "smart bullet" crap prolly won't happen.

 

BTW, anyone else marching on DC next April? If not, you should think about doing it. It's gonna be a pretty big deal. You guys want to be able to continue to buy things like the Saiga....right?

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

There was a semi auto shotgun made by Daewoo industries, it was imported to the USA, it took 10 round mags and 20 round drums, the ATF suddenly decided to classify it as a " destructive device" (say what) The importer was USAS if I can remember correctly.

 

Now of course it is against federal law to own one unless you ( mark yourself ) register and pay the 200, if it can happen to one semi auto shotty it can happen to the Saiga.

 

 

This would be the fugly piece you are speaking of....we are very familiar with it here.

 

CMIIW, but weren't owners of such as the Striker/StreetSweeper & Daewoo, not only grandfathered, but allowed to Register their DDs, without paying the $200.00 Bribe tax stamp?

We can demand and hope for the same if such is instituted again.

Meanwhile, I agree, speak up, speak loudly and speak often!

Edited July 5, 2009 by ChileRelleno

[jekbrown 14]

CMIIW, but weren't owners of such as the Striker/StreetSweeper & Daewoo, not only grandfathered, but allowed to Register their DDs, without paying the $200.00 Bribe tax stamp?

 

I dunno, but does anyone else think it's gonna be pretty fun when the whole $200 thing is 'no big deal'? Just think, thanks to inflation, someday a trip to Mickey Ds will cost $200.

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Hell, I'm already surprised they haven't rewritten the law to have the cost of the Tax Stamp automatically adjust to inflation.

What is that original $200.00 worth today? Lets see, run it thru a inflation calculator... And...

$200.00 in 1934 had about the same buying power as $3,185.30 in 2009.Annual inflation over this period was about 3.76%.

[krusader 1]

Did anyone own the daewoo? I would like to hear opinions of it, was it reliable etc.

[DogMan 2,343]

Always know that there are people that would if they could. Always assume that it could happen. Act early, often, and accordingly to make sure it doesn't. Vote, write, join, donate, preach, act. And then get as many other people in your circle as you can to do the same.

[krusader 1]

Always know that there are people that would if they could. Always assume that it could happen. Act early, often, and accordingly to make sure it doesn't. Vote, write, join, donate, preach, act. And then get as many other people in your circle as you can to do the same.

 

Good advice Dogman.

[elementaltoad 0]

can we add "come and take it" to the vote options?

[VWBeamer 1]

They would get it while you are at work.

 

can we add "come and take it" to the vote options?

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

I work at the gun department in the Reno/Sparks Scheels and I get guys that get pissed at me when they ask, "why don't you have any ___ ammo?" and I tell them it is because of increased demand partially due to panic buying anticipating a ban or higher taxes. They tell me there will never be a ban and that the current administration and congress are very pro-gun and pro-freedom. Meanwhile the highest ranking attorney in the country, Eric Holder has publicly stated he strongly supports another AWB. Sonia Sotomayor voted against the Heller ruling in a lower court after the decision was made by the court she wants to sit on. Both were appointed by our current President because they, "share his values".

 

A lot of gun owners voted the same people in that want to take our guns, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from illegal search and seizure, freedom to better our lives without property confiscation (read taxes). They are in denial about these politician's intentions to make America a Fascist state because they promise them freebies or a feel good mentality (like the rest of the world will finally love us).

 

I would be willing to bet that there are several quiet members on this forum that vote for gun-grabbers because they think they will get some sort of hand-out or prop-up benefit either professionally or personally. Remember that Bill Ruger supported the first AWB?

 

If we can't even get our own supporters to take charge and do the right thing, then one day, we will no longer have the power or ability to take charge and freedom will be nothing more than a distant memory!

[Juggernaut 11,054]

Guns are the flashpoint for the next revolution.... EVERYONE knows this.....

 

Question is, how far are folks willing to go....?

 

Will the Socialist in charge push for a ban knowing their action may plunge our nation into Civil War???

 

They have been batting 1000 so far......

[sidewinderl 43]

I agree with Azrial, but I think the bigger problem is all the people who say things like "it'll never happen" or "they'd be crazy to try it" or "Obama has more important things to deal with". There's tons of it in every topic like this and it's much worse than defeatist talk. They'd be crazy? They ARE. More important things to deal with? The only dealing Obama does is with our enemies. You think he's actually dealing with these "more important" things (more important than our freedom?) like our economy and Iran?

 

Heinlein's Between Planets is a great example of where exactly talk like "it'll never happen" takes you. I'll spoil it for you..."it" happens. As the book explains, the problem lies in the point of view of the person claiming things like " they'd be crazy to try it"...when you say something like that, you're not talking from the point of view of a maniac in power. So ask yourself... if you were a flaming liberal gun-hating nutjob, would you be "crazy enough to try it"? The answer should be obvious.

[VWBeamer 1]

....

 

A lot of gun owners voted the same people in that want to take our guns, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from illegal search and seizure, freedom to better our lives without property confiscation (read taxes). They are in denial about these politician's intentions to make America a Fascist state because they promise them freebies or a feel good mentality (like the rest of the world will finally love us).

 

I would be willing to bet that there are several quiet members on this forum that vote for gun-grabbers because they think they will get some sort of hand-out or prop-up benefit either professionally or personally. Remember that Bill Ruger supported the first AWB?

 

If we can't even get our own supporters to take charge and do the right thing, then one day, we will no longer have the power or ability to take charge and freedom will be nothing more than a distant memory!

 

Remember that Dumbass Dan Cooper?

 

http://texasfred.net/archives/2692

[krusader 1]

Buffetdestroyer, thank you for articulating such sad truth so well.

You hit the nail on the head. Just know that there are many like you who hate the fact that some people voted for those that hate guns and the freedom they afford and some how think they have the right to even say the word gun.

[frick 3]

A key component you have all overlooked is "Reasonable" gun restrictions, that were described in Heller.

 

You have a right to own, but, the Government can be "Reasonable" in their restrictions.

 

Think the "Sporting" clause that prohibits real Saiga's from being imported, or some other application of such gobbledeegook to restrict, but not outright ban the sale of AW type firearms.

 

And, with the proliferation of non sporting items for the imported "Sporting" Saiga's, they could go the way of the USAS 12, Striker/Street Sweepers at any time, with no presidential effort at all, it only takes a reclassifation by the BATF as non sporting, and away they go.

 

Frankly, I have wondered in they couldn't just make any mag feed weapon a Destructive Device, DC already rules any semi auto mag fed pistol as a Machine Gun, so, whats to stop the feds?

[Caspian 32]

is the sky falling again already?

 

For the nubies, look through about 4 years worth of posts and you will see the sky falling for the following reasons:

1) Saigas with 8 round mags imported

2) 10 round mags

3) drums

 

it ain't falling and no one is taking your guns. quit making issues where there are none.

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

A key component you have all overlooked is "Reasonable" gun restrictions, that were described in Heller.

 

You have a right to own, but, the Government can be "Reasonable" in their restrictions.

 

Think the "Sporting" clause that prohibits real Saiga's from being imported, or some other application of such gobbledeegook to restrict, but not outright ban the sale of AW type firearms.

 

And, with the proliferation of non sporting items for the imported "Sporting" Saiga's, they could go the way of the USAS 12, Striker/Street Sweepers at any time, with no presidential effort at all, it only takes a reclassifation by the BATF as non sporting, and away they go.

 

Frankly, I have wondered in they couldn't just make any mag feed weapon a Destructive Device, DC already rules any semi auto mag fed pistol as a Machine Gun, so, whats to stop the feds?

 

You are right that it is open to interpretation. I am for "reasonable" restrictions like not letting convicted violent offenders legally have firearms after our justice system lets them back on the street to commit again.

 

I am NOT open to banning something because it looks scary. But if that were okay, Rosie O'Donnell's ass and face would have been outlawed a long time ago so it depends on your interpretation!

[frick 3]

"For the nubies, look through about 4 years worth of posts and you will see the sky falling for the following reasons:

1) Saigas with 8 round mags imported

2) 10 round mags

3) drums"

 

 

Go tell that to the owners of the USAS 12's, Street Sweepers, and Saigas, not to mention all the people who owned Machine guns prior to 1968.

 

The trend has been to lump more weapons into greater control, rather than to free them up, when all the problems they supposedly cause, never got any better after they were regulated at a greater level.

 

The sole exception was the 94 Assault Weapons Ban, and if they had not built a sunset clause into it, no way in hell would congress have voted to repeal it, nor would "W" have signed it.

 

The only thing going for us for now, is that the economy is continuing to suck, unemployment is up, and the polls about gun control continue to climb in favor of less new laws, and that includes for the first time, over 50 percent support to NOT reban Assault "Style" weapons.

 

If you think that sheeple are going to stand up and support your right to own a 20 round, pistol gripped, folding stock shotgun, in aint going to happen, even if you only polled gun owners, too many just see the Saiga as being something that no one really needs, and I am going to tell you honestly, other than home defense, and making the shotgun shell manufacturers a profit, "I" don't think there IS very much use for a Saiga.

 

I'm not saying that there should EVER be ANY reason to ban ANY firearm or accessory, and I love the two Saiga's I own, but, in PA you can't hunt with one, except in a few counties, for self defense use, unless its VERY clear situationally in the use of force, I wouldn't want my Saiga, tactical light, and 20 round drum setting on the evidence table if "I" am trial for a criminal or civil case, thats involving repurcussions from a self defense shooting. It would be an instant, "This Bubba, was looking to kill someone" conviction.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Remember that Dumbass Dan Cooper?

 

http://texasfred.net/archives/2692

 

Wow. How dumb do you have to be, to own a gun company and support/vote for a guy who has an extremely anti-gun history? :ded:

 

Financial Darwinism at it's best.

[hick 0]

I'm not saying that there should EVER be ANY reason to ban ANY firearm or accessory, and I love the two Saiga's I own, but, in PA you can't hunt with one, except in a few counties, for self defense use, unless its VERY clear situationally in the use of force, I wouldn't want my Saiga, tactical light, and 20 round drum setting on the evidence table if "I" am trial for a criminal or civil case, thats involving repurcussions from a self defense shooting. It would be an instant, "This Bubba, was looking to kill someone" conviction.

 

The way I'm interpeting the PA law for legal hunting firearms we could use the S-12 with a magazine capacity not exceeding 2 rounds for small game and turkey. For deer I don't see any limitations on magazine capacity for autoloading shotguns.

[vbrtrmn 167]

Guns are the flashpoint for the next revolution.... EVERYONE knows this.....

 

Question is, how far are folks willing to go....?

 

Will the Socialist in charge push for a ban knowing their action may plunge our nation into Civil War???

 

They have been batting 1000 so far......

 

I don't know where I read the quote and I'm sure I'm misquoting it, but the average person won't stir, unless he goes a week without food.

[Crusader 64]

I have sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States aginst all enemies both foreign and domestic.

[Wotan1105 7]

They can't touch guns while the economy is in the shitter. Clinton was riding high after the dot com boom, things were good at the time of the first ban. People are too pissed off right now, am doubting he can even get his cap and tax through, or healthcare. Guns is a no-go right now. I could definitely see the import of our beloved saiga come to an end before a "ban" tho, they could do all sorts of crafty things. Point being, if things are going well for everyone, they don't watch whats going on in DC so much. Right now everyone is paying attention.

 

It's all about 2010... am pretty sure he wont have the votes end of next year, so he's still got about a years time to pass socialism.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Wotan1105

[Bridis 319]

All of the gun and ammo retailers are going to be laughing all the way to the bank when nothing happens. Becuase they were able to convince an entire community of gun owners that their guns where going to be banned and their ammo over taxed. All on the notion that our president has a previous history of voting a certain way.

 

Psssst. Does anyone remember Bush's stance on abortion? (Which is way more important than any gun law.) He was even able to appoint Supreme Court Jutices and nothing happened.

 

There is simply too much for Obama to worry about right now. He still has to work out the tanking economy and unwarranted war handed to him by the Bush administration. I am very doubtful that the AWB or anything of the sorts is even on his administration's "to do list".

 

We need to stop feeding into this shit and get our gun and ammo prices back to where our broken economy can afford them.

[Crusader 64]

Good point. Likewise I bet that there were lots of feminists that paniced and got knocked up just so they could commit abortions while it was still legal.

Edited July 11, 2009 by Crusader

[Bridis 319]

Good point. Likewise I bet that there were lots of feminists that paniced and got knocked up just so they could commit abortions while it was still legal.

 

LOL...

[rogertc1 4]

So, who thinks there will be a push to ban "assault" weapons again?

 

Think current weapons will be grandfathered in?

 

Maybe certain features will be banned, like folding stocks, pistol grips,etc

 

Think the large hi cap mags will be banned?

 

Yes I do. Hopefully it won't list Saiga 12's as a destructive devise which was done in 94 with the Street Sweeper and other hi-cap evil looking shot guns.

I would not put it past them. And if you bought your Saiga from a FFL. They will have you on record. If you got it from a private individule the will track you down. Seen it doen.

You may have to turn it in in be a felon. Give up all your gun rights, spend all you money on defence and go to jail.

PS...I sold my Street Sweeper ti a Class 3 dealer. Can't own DD in my state of Iowa