SAIGA's legal in California?

[flintnapr 0]

I'd been told ANY AK-type action was illegal in California, so I was startled to see a SAIGA .223 for sale in a sporting goods store here today.($500)

Was I misinformed by my source (a relative)?

[SaigaSlayer 0]

I'd been told ANY AK-type action was illegal in California, so I was startled to see a SAIGA .223 for sale in a sporting goods store here today.($500)

Was I misinformed by my source (a relative)?

 

Saigas are legal in california as far as i know. you just cant add any high cap mags. I'm not sure about conversion parts, they should be legal as long as you dont add the mags.

[stix213 3]

I'd been told ANY AK-type action was illegal in California, so I was startled to see a SAIGA .223 for sale in a sporting goods store here today.($500)

Was I misinformed by my source (a relative)?

 

The short answer is "yes" Saiga's are legal as long as they are not imported by "Kalashnikov USA"

 

The long answer is:

 

Yes, all AR & AK series firearms are considered banned assault weapons by the state of California, but the issue is... What defines an AR or AK series firearm? Fortunately for us, the courts have determined that we are too stupid to figure that out on our own!!!

 

California law has a list of all banned AR & AK series firearms, and the 2001 California Supreme Court case Harrott vs Kings County established that to be considered a member of the AR or AK series it would be a violation of your due process rights if they were not specifically listed by MAKE & MODEL in the official assault weapons identification guide, and any new models of AR or AK firearms need to be added by the state attorney general to the banned list which gives all current owners 30 days to legally register them. (the court said it was unreasonable for a laymen gun owner to independently determine if their firearm was similar enough to an AR or AK to be illegal, and it was a violation of due process for individual cops and courts to determine based on their own opinion at the time whether you are a law abiding citizen, or if your firearm you legally purchased makes you a felon)

 

So, the guide is now nearly a decade old, and the state attorney general has never bothered to update the list with new makes and models (WHOOPS!!!). The Kalashnikov USA Saiga is specifically listed, but RAA and other makes are not. The state attorney general was going to add them to the list, but there are too many in the state already. And to add them after the fact would only allow people to legally register them as assault weapons (which has its own benefits, like not having to abide by any other law to prevent your legally owned Saiga from being considered an assault weapon, now that it already is one). The state attorney general also recognized that as soon as he adds a new rifle to the list, it can just be imported the next day under a different importer name and it would be legal again.

 

So to clear this up, the Governator signed into law in 2006 making it illegal for the state attorney general to ever add any new rifles to the AR & AK series lists... making all new AR & AK makes/models after the list was originally created perfectly legal without risk of becoming listed assault weapons in the future, unless new legislation is passed.

 

So basically, the gun rights people in the last few years have won a major battle in California that few have noticed, and AK's (including the Saiga) and AR-15 style rifles are routinely sold over the counter here now

 

There are other assault weapons laws you still have to follow though, such as if you have a foregrip, thumbhole stock, pistol grip, or a few other features, you have to go with a fixed magazine configuration (meaning you need a separate tool to remove the magazine), which is how my Saiga is configured, and we still have a ban on high cap mag sales, but there has been significant progress here to say the least. Semi-auto shotguns with a separate box mag, like the Saiga 12, have to always be in a fixed mag setup regardless of other features.

 

Conversions are also perfectly legal. Californians just have to remember that if they own preban high cap AK mags they want to use, they have to use them in "featureless" rifles... meaning no pistol grip, vertical foregrip, etc, but using a legally owned pre-ban mag on a Monte carlo stock Saiga is perfectly legal as far as California law is concerned. (the 30 round mag on my Saiga in my avatar is actually what we call a 10/30, where it is a 10 round mag that is made from 30 round mag parts... yes very depressing, but at least the rifle can look correct and stay legal)

 

So to be on the safe side, if you are in California with your legally configured Saiga, I just wouldn't refer to your Saiga as an AK to people you don't know (like a plain clothed LEO at your local gun range), and you might also want to carry a copy of the calguns assault weapon identification flow chart to prove to the uninformed that your Saiga is on the up and up.

 

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

Edited August 6, 2009 by stix213

[XXasdf 29]

I'd been told ANY AK-type action was illegal in California, so I was startled to see a SAIGA .223 for sale in a sporting goods store here today.($500)

Was I misinformed by my source (a relative)?

 

The short answer is "yes" Saiga's are legal as long as they are not imported by "Kalashnikov USA"

 

The long answer is:

 

Yes, all AR & AK series firearms are considered banned assault weapons by the state of California, but the issue is... What defines an AR or AK series firearm? Fortunately for us, the courts have determined that we are too stupid to figure that out on our own!!!

 

California law has a list of all banned AR & AK series firearms, and the 2001 California Supreme Court case Harrott vs Kings County established that to be considered a member of the AR or AK series it would be a violation of your due process rights if they were not specifically listed by MAKE & MODEL in the official assault weapons identification guide, and any new models of AR or AK firearms need to be added by the state attorney general to the banned list which gives all current owners 30 days to legally register them. (the court said it was unreasonable for a laymen gun owner to independently determine if their firearm was similar enough to an AR or AK to be illegal, and it was a violation of due process for individual cops and courts to determine based on their own opinion at the time whether you are a law abiding citizen, or if your firearm you legally purchased makes you a felon)

 

So, the guide is now nearly a decade old, and the state attorney general has never bothered to update the list with new makes and models (WHOOPS!!!). The Kalashnikov USA Saiga is specifically listed, but RAA and other makes are not. The state attorney general was going to add them to the list, but there are too many in the state already. And to add them after the fact would only allow people to legally register them as assault weapons (which has its own benefits, like not having to abide by any other law to prevent your legally owned Saiga from being considered an assault weapon, now that it already is one). The state attorney general also recognized that as soon as he adds a new rifle to the list, it can just be imported the next day under a different importer name and it would be legal again.

 

So to clear this up, the Governator signed into law in 2006 making it illegal for the state attorney general to ever add any new rifles to the AR & AK series lists... making all new AR & AK makes/models after the list was originally created perfectly legal without risk of becoming listed assault weapons in the future, unless new legislation is passed.

 

So basically, the gun rights people in the last few years have won a major battle in California that few have noticed, and AK's (including the Saiga) and AR-15 style rifles are routinely sold over the counter here now

 

There are other assault weapons laws you still have to follow though, such as if you have a foregrip, thumbhole stock, pistol grip, or a few other features, you have to go with a fixed magazine configuration (meaning you need a separate tool to remove the magazine), which is how my Saiga is configured, and we still have a ban on high cap mag sales, but there has been significant progress here to say the least. Semi-auto shotguns with a separate box mag, like the Saiga 12, have to always be in a fixed mag setup regardless of other features.

 

Conversions are also perfectly legal. Californians just have to remember that if they own preban high cap AK mags they want to use, they have to use them in "featureless" rifles... meaning no pistol grip, vertical foregrip, etc, but using a legally owned pre-ban mag on a Monte carlo stock Saiga is perfectly legal as far as California law is concerned. (the 30 round mag on my Saiga in my avatar is actually what we call a 10/30, where it is a 10 round mag that is made from 30 round mag parts... yes very depressing, but at least the rifle can look correct and stay legal)

 

So to be on the safe side, if you are in California with your legally configured Saiga, I just wouldn't refer to your Saiga as an AK to people you don't know (like a plane clothed LEO at your local gun range), and you might also want to carry a copy of the calguns assault weapon identification flow chart to prove to the uninformed that your Saiga is on the up and up.

 

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

 

I feel your pain man I got 10/20 mags for my .308. Not much different from my surefires minus the LRBHO, but sure does look cool for pics.

[flintnapr 0]

WOW!----thank you STIX213

 

for your very informed answer. also the flowchart which I will always carry with the gun from now on.

 

I deeply appreciate your help.

 

flintnapr

 

 

 

 

I'd been told ANY AK-type action was illegal in California, so I was startled to see a SAIGA .223 for sale in a sporting goods store here today.($500)

Was I misinformed by my source (a relative)?

 

The short answer is "yes" Saiga's are legal as long as they are not imported by "Kalashnikov USA"

 

The long answer is:

 

Yes, all AR & AK series firearms are considered banned assault weapons by the state of California, but the issue is... What defines an AR or AK series firearm? Fortunately for us, the courts have determined that we are too stupid to figure that out on our own!!!

 

California law has a list of all banned AR & AK series firearms, and the 2001 California Supreme Court case Harrott vs Kings County established that to be considered a member of the AR or AK series it would be a violation of your due process rights if they were not specifically listed by MAKE & MODEL in the official assault weapons identification guide, and any new models of AR or AK firearms need to be added by the state attorney general to the banned list which gives all current owners 30 days to legally register them. (the court said it was unreasonable for a laymen gun owner to independently determine if their firearm was similar enough to an AR or AK to be illegal, and it was a violation of due process for individual cops and courts to determine based on their own opinion at the time whether you are a law abiding citizen, or if your firearm you legally purchased makes you a felon)

 

So, the guide is now nearly a decade old, and the state attorney general has never bothered to update the list with new makes and models (WHOOPS!!!). The Kalashnikov USA Saiga is specifically listed, but RAA and other makes are not. The state attorney general was going to add them to the list, but there are too many in the state already. And to add them after the fact would only allow people to legally register them as assault weapons (which has its own benefits, like not having to abide by any other law to prevent your legally owned Saiga from being considered an assault weapon, now that it already is one). The state attorney general also recognized that as soon as he adds a new rifle to the list, it can just be imported the next day under a different importer name and it would be legal again.

 

So to clear this up, the Governator signed into law in 2006 making it illegal for the state attorney general to ever add any new rifles to the AR & AK series lists... making all new AR & AK makes/models after the list was originally created perfectly legal without risk of becoming listed assault weapons in the future, unless new legislation is passed.

 

So basically, the gun rights people in the last few years have won a major battle in California that few have noticed, and AK's (including the Saiga) and AR-15 style rifles are routinely sold over the counter here now

 

There are other assault weapons laws you still have to follow though, such as if you have a foregrip, thumbhole stock, pistol grip, or a few other features, you have to go with a fixed magazine configuration (meaning you need a separate tool to remove the magazine), which is how my Saiga is configured, and we still have a ban on high cap mag sales, but there has been significant progress here to say the least. Semi-auto shotguns with a separate box mag, like the Saiga 12, have to always be in a fixed mag setup regardless of other features.

 

Conversions are also perfectly legal. Californians just have to remember that if they own preban high cap AK mags they want to use, they have to use them in "featureless" rifles... meaning no pistol grip, vertical foregrip, etc, but using a legally owned pre-ban mag on a Monte carlo stock Saiga is perfectly legal as far as California law is concerned. (the 30 round mag on my Saiga in my avatar is actually what we call a 10/30, where it is a 10 round mag that is made from 30 round mag parts... yes very depressing, but at least the rifle can look correct and stay legal)

 

So to be on the safe side, if you are in California with your legally configured Saiga, I just wouldn't refer to your Saiga as an AK to people you don't know (like a plain clothed LEO at your local gun range), and you might also want to carry a copy of the calguns assault weapon identification flow chart to prove to the uninformed that your Saiga is on the up and up.

 

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

[stix213 3]

WOW!----thank you STIX213

 

for your very informed answer. also the flowchart which I will always carry with the gun from now on.

 

I deeply appreciate your help.

 

flintnapr

 

Not a problem.

 

When I was younger I wanted an AK, but they were all banned... More recently I wanted to buy a rifle and got the Saiga when I found out it was an AK at heart, I could actually legally get it, and yes they had virtually every model in stock in that liberal haven called Marin County CA. I went in asking about a Kel-tec Su-16, but I walked out buying a Saiga 7.62x39 with the factory dragunov stock, and spent the next 10 days trying to learn all the laws involved and why it was legal when supposedly all AKs are still banned.

 

Might have been the best purchase I have ever made, ever

Edited August 11, 2009 by stix213

[AK86 1]

WOW!----thank you STIX213

 

for your very informed answer. also the flowchart which I will always carry with the gun from now on.

 

I deeply appreciate your help.

 

flintnapr

 

Not a problem.

 

When I was younger I wanted an AK, but they were all banned... More recently I wanted to buy a rifle and got the Saiga when I found out it was an AK at heart, I could actually legally get it, and yes they had virtually every model in stock in that liberal haven called Marin County CA. I went in asking about a Kel-tec Su-16, but I walked out buying a Saiga 7.62x39 with the factory dragunov stock, and spent the next 10 days trying to learn all the laws involved and why it was legal when supposedly all AKs are still banned.

 

Might have been the best purchase I have ever made, ever

 

Wait a second... Dragunov stock is legal on a Saiga? Hmm, I thought it was a "pistol grip"

[stix213 3]

WOW!----thank you STIX213

 

for your very informed answer. also the flowchart which I will always carry with the gun from now on.

 

I deeply appreciate your help.

 

flintnapr

 

Not a problem.

 

When I was younger I wanted an AK, but they were all banned... More recently I wanted to buy a rifle and got the Saiga when I found out it was an AK at heart, I could actually legally get it, and yes they had virtually every model in stock in that liberal haven called Marin County CA. I went in asking about a Kel-tec Su-16, but I walked out buying a Saiga 7.62x39 with the factory dragunov stock, and spent the next 10 days trying to learn all the laws involved and why it was legal when supposedly all AKs are still banned.

 

Might have been the best purchase I have ever made, ever

 

Wait a second... Dragunov stock is legal on a Saiga? Hmm, I thought it was a "pistol grip"

 

 

No that stock is considered a "thumbhole stock" which actually doesn't even count against you for 922r purposes (they are imported with them already). In California they are considered an evil feature though, so you have to give up detachable mags to use them and use a tool to remove your mag.

[AK86 1]

WOW!----thank you STIX213

 

for your very informed answer. also the flowchart which I will always carry with the gun from now on.

 

I deeply appreciate your help.

 

flintnapr

 

Not a problem.

 

When I was younger I wanted an AK, but they were all banned... More recently I wanted to buy a rifle and got the Saiga when I found out it was an AK at heart, I could actually legally get it, and yes they had virtually every model in stock in that liberal haven called Marin County CA. I went in asking about a Kel-tec Su-16, but I walked out buying a Saiga 7.62x39 with the factory dragunov stock, and spent the next 10 days trying to learn all the laws involved and why it was legal when supposedly all AKs are still banned.

 

Might have been the best purchase I have ever made, ever

 

Wait a second... Dragunov stock is legal on a Saiga? Hmm, I thought it was a "pistol grip"

 

 

No that stock is considered a "thumbhole stock" which actually doesn't even count against you for 922r purposes (they are imported with them already). In California they are considered an evil feature though, so you have to give up detachable mags to use them and use a tool to remove your mag.

 

Ahh, screw that! I would not give up the detachable mags for anything. If shit hits the fan one day, I do not want to be stuck with a magazine tool in my hand and 15 zombies running towars me...

[stix213 3]

WOW!----thank you STIX213

 

for your very informed answer. also the flowchart which I will always carry with the gun from now on.

 

I deeply appreciate your help.

 

flintnapr

 

Not a problem.

 

When I was younger I wanted an AK, but they were all banned... More recently I wanted to buy a rifle and got the Saiga when I found out it was an AK at heart, I could actually legally get it, and yes they had virtually every model in stock in that liberal haven called Marin County CA. I went in asking about a Kel-tec Su-16, but I walked out buying a Saiga 7.62x39 with the factory dragunov stock, and spent the next 10 days trying to learn all the laws involved and why it was legal when supposedly all AKs are still banned.

 

Might have been the best purchase I have ever made, ever

 

Wait a second... Dragunov stock is legal on a Saiga? Hmm, I thought it was a "pistol grip"

 

 

No that stock is considered a "thumbhole stock" which actually doesn't even count against you for 922r purposes (they are imported with them already). In California they are considered an evil feature though, so you have to give up detachable mags to use them and use a tool to remove your mag.

 

Ahh, screw that! I would not give up the detachable mags for anything. If shit hits the fan one day, I do not want to be stuck with a magazine tool in my hand and 15 zombies running towars me...

 

Then go SOCOM style with the Monte Carlo stock without evil features and even use your pre-ban 30 round AK mags legally here in Cali (assuming you own pre-ban ak mags in cali already).

 

Otherwise install a bullet button, which is just a recessed button you use a bullet to press, or even a magnetic bullet button where you wear a magnetic ring and just place the ring over the mag release to drop your mag.

 

Or at least stock up on 30 round rebuild kits, which you can legally buy in California, and then just quickly assemble in 5 seconds once society breaks down and you have no worries about crazy california laws!

[ccmano 0]

Unfortunately, I will be moving to Southern Kali before the end of the year. Where can I buy a bullet button for my Saiga?

Thanks

H

[JulianH 4]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=AK+magazine+lock

[csspecs 1,987]

Well think of it like this, all your allowed is 10 round mags, and your only allowed detachable mags if you keep the rifle stock (IE no pistol grip). Otherwise you must use a bullet button.

 

I'd leave it stock and buy either my metal 10s or surefires 10s.

 

Adding a pistol grip but losing one handed mag changes is not really a good trade, leave it stock and enjoy it as is.

Edited September 19, 2009 by csspecs

[DrGonZo 157]

I live in KKKalifornia and own a converted Saiga 308. I have a Raddlock installed and wouldn't change a thing. Most shooters never have a need for fast 1 handed mag changes at the range. If you think you need to have the option for a fast mag change for home defense, buy a pistol which would be much more suitable for the job. If having a raddlock is the only way to have a pistol grip, forward grip, collapsible stock and flash hider, then I'll put one on every AK variant I can get my hands on in this NAZI state we call California. Most people that vote on these ridiculous laws here don't realize that they are only making it harder for law abiding citizens to defend themselves. The people who are going to use their AKs and ARs in drive bys and bank robberies and such are not going to give 2 squirts of dog piss about the laws. They are going to get 40 rd mags and full auto FCGs from the black market. The ONLY people these laws affect are the law abiding citizens.

 

Thats it! I'm moving to Oregon.