Bayoupiper 738 Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Oh, and by the way, I don't beleive in gods, devils, ghosts, angels, fairies, demons, or any other mythical beings. Perhaps that sheds a little light on the matter for you also. What about dragons? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aresv 49 Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Paladin, why don't you use allah, or buddah when you cuzz like this? Just curious?You are using God's name in vain, and it is really offensive. Brave people have fought and died for your right to be offended... or to think and say whatever else you want. You're lucky to have that freedom. No one can legally discriminate against you for your beliefs. So go ahead and tell Paladin it offends you! That's your right. It's also his right (within reason -- i.e. no disturbing the peace or disorderly conduct) to cuss about Jesus, Allah, your mom, or whatever else he feels like. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 ...perhaps my personal disdain for religions has nothing to do with it and it is merely a colloquial use of expressive language that is intended to emphasize statements as opposed to an attempt to insult anyone's belief system. Yea, that's it. .... Nice one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin 37 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Oh, and by the way, I don't beleive in gods, devils, ghosts, angels, fairies, demons, or any other mythical beings. Perhaps that sheds a little light on the matter for you also. What about dragons? Will, you've gone too far now! Dragons are REAL, I have a solid pewter image of one sitting on my desk right now. I have a dragon necklace, dragon T-shirts and dragon stickers on my car. I get together with other people who believe and we sit around and talk about all the cool things dragons can do. They can fly, and breath fire, their really strong and wise. They do have a weakness for shiny things, so you don't want to take any of it from them or you'll be punished. But as long as you follow all the rules for dealing with them then they can impart great wisdom. I read about them in a book that about 40 different guys wrote a couple thousand years ago. Of course none of these guys actually saw dragons. But they had it on very good authority they exist. It's very well documented. So many stories are told about them they MUST be real, they have made many movies about them. There are tales from around the world about them and they are talked about even today. It's true that they seemed to pop up all the time in ancient times when man was more primitive and in modern history they have NEVER manifested themselves, but you know, dragons have very long life spans. There probably napping and will wake up soon and return. Maybe around the year 2012. Now, I know some of you may think that because no one has ever saw one that they don't really exist, but I assure you they do. You just have to have faith. (OK, now I'm being a dick, sorry) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Dude WTF are you talking about......I HAVE a dragon! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin 37 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Dude WTF are you talking about......I HAVE a dragon! Then you must be a dragon prophet, can I come live with you? If I do, can I get discount on gunsmithing? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Dude WTF are you talking about......I HAVE a dragon! Fortunately only for one week a month............................. (Anyone got a foxhole I can borrow?) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigcec1 72 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Dude WTF are you talking about......I HAVE a dragon! Fortunately only for one week a month............................. (Anyone got a foxhole I can borrow?) I have a spare fox hole its right next to the ammo bunker :} Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 I have a spare fox hole its right next to the ammo bunker :} I'm gonna need it when Racegal reads that post! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
454496 71 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 There is a real dragon in the UFC right now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigcec1 72 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Here found your fox hole Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 ...I AM a business member of this forum. We have been in business for many years and are considered one of the most reputable gunsmithing business and custom gun builders in the industry.... I had forgotten that, my sincere apologies! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
doodi1 23 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 I love this thread! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 I just checked my S-12 because the pics in this thread looked a lot like Tony's pics I used to help the bolt/bolt carrier move more freely. Low and behold, I can load mags pretty easily with the bolt closed. Now I'm sure it's not nearly as easy to load as the professional mods discussed in this thread, but it works. I must also say that Mr. Travers is a great guy and spent a good bit of time with me on the phone talking about the S-12. He also offered some very good information on my L1A1. I look forward to doing business with him in the future. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 And by the way, I did his bolt for FREE. I did it to help him out because I could. I help a lot of people in this regard so they can enjoy the potential of the Saiga 12 Shotgun. No good deed goes unpunished. ..... Just to be clear. The work done was not completely free. I had bought a magwell from Jack and through discussions on how to use it and install it, he decided to do it one better out of the goodness of his heart. In a sense, the work was like a virtual magwell. It allowed my gun to function as well and even better than what the magwell would have done for me. I still have the magwell. If I wanted to install it I would have to do some mods to both the gun and my mags. The work Jack did for me relieved me of that. So basically I paid for the work done and got a free magwell out of the deal which I no longer have any use for. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koliadko 207 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Dude WTF are you talking about......I HAVE a dragon! Fortunately only for one week a month............................. (Anyone got a foxhole I can borrow?) Dude, you have no idea how lucky you are that you live as far away as you do! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Dude WTF are you talking about......I HAVE a dragon! Fortunately only for one week a month............................. (Anyone got a foxhole I can borrow?) Dude, you have no idea how lucky you are that you live as far away as you do! All I did was post an honest review of some work done for me by a "business Member" of the forum. I said nothing negative about anybody. Why all the angst over it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 What you did was post an AD, it wasn't a 'review' until you edited your post. I saw it, saw that it was the same service I've been offering members here for awhile, and commented on it because I didn't realize the one who did the work was actually a business member. I was looking out for my own business here, as well as our other business members. This man is HUGE in the professional shooting and building community, but rules are rules...and I honestly thought they were being blatantly broken...not by Jack, but by YOU. So proceeded to put my foot in my mouth, as it turned out. Then by the next morning, by the time I had managed to pull down 4 hrs sleep....I came here and saw the aftermath. I felt bad and I called Jack on the phone to apologize, and to try and explain. Too late though....a couple of drama queens here had already made it a point to blow the whole thing wide open, and take something that was between Jack and I, and make their own little game on the interweb. Before I even had a chance to make things right, these two assholes were attacking me from both sides. I believe Jack is a man, and can speak for himself thanks! I have since been communicating with Jack via phone and PM, and we have totally mended any fences that these other jerks want to try and burn for us. I wish people would learn to mind their own business around here, and we wouldn't have all the damned drama. Maybe then, people like Jack, and GentlemanJim, would post here more often. I apologize to you for crapping on your post. Let the record show that I said that. Now if everyone else can manage to drop it, like the two main people involved have already done....maybe this thread can continue without further drama. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brvt1000 2 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) So, if my gun cycles just fine after CGW did the warranty on it and I installed a GF knob would polishing my bolt do me any good? Or just like most things... if it's not broke, mess with it till it is? Both you guys do nice work by the way. This thread is like watching Jerry Springer, but with shotguns. P.S. Cobra, I borrowed a line from your signature for mine if that is ok? Thought it was a good idea. Edited August 4, 2009 by brvt1000 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigcec1 72 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 :} Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) So, if my gun cycles just fine after CGW did the warranty on it and I installed a GF knob would polishing my bolt do me any good? Or just like most things... if it's not broke, mess with it till it is? Both you guys do nice work by the way. This thread is like watching Jerry Springer, but with shotguns. P.S. Cobra, I borrowed a line from your signature for mine if that is ok? Thought it was a good idea. As was mentioned earlier in the thread, this mod is more about reload time for competitors and other shooters that desire every "edge" they can get, than it is about a reliability mod. If it isnt broken, no, don't fix it, but if there is a way you can improve your reload time significantly, it might not be broken, but if its gonna keep you from winning, it might as well be broken, when other shooters are able to beat your times by having such improvements, that improvement would probably be worth its weight in gold. Anyone try Jack's video challenge yet? I think that pretty well summed it up. Either you can do it without the mod, or its worth some money, when it comes down to the shot timer. I might take that bit about Jerry Springer and put it in my own sig, that does about size it up around here. If you ask me, derailing a serious thread about a vendors product and turning it into catfighting is just as much crapping all over it as anything else would be. Edited August 4, 2009 by ReverendFranz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 All I did was post an honest review of some work done for me by a "business Member" of the forum. I said nothing negative about anybody. Why all the angst over it? That little exchange had nothing to do with you post...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 What you did was post an AD, it wasn't a 'review' until you edited your post.I saw it, saw that it was the same service I've been offering members here for awhile, and commented on it because I didn't realize the one who did the work was actually a business member. I was looking out for my own business here, as well as our other business members. This man is HUGE in the professional shooting and building community, but rules are rules...and I honestly thought they were being blatantly broken...not by Jack, but by YOU. So proceeded to put my foot in my mouth, as it turned out. Then by the next morning, by the time I had managed to pull down 4 hrs sleep....I came here and saw the aftermath. I felt bad and I called Jack on the phone to apologize, and to try and explain. Too late though....a couple of drama queens here had already made it a point to blow the whole thing wide open, and take something that was between Jack and I, and make their own little game on the interweb. Before I even had a chance to make things right, these two assholes were attacking me from both sides. I believe Jack is a man, and can speak for himself thanks! I have since been communicating with Jack via phone and PM, and we have totally mended any fences that these other jerks want to try and burn for us. I wish people would learn to mind their own business around here, and we wouldn't have all the damned drama. Maybe then, people like Jack, and GentlemanJim, would post here more often. I apologize to you for crapping on your post. Let the record show that I said that. Now if everyone else can manage to drop it, like the two main people involved have already done....maybe this thread can continue without further drama. Interesting that even after these events took place, there are still people trying to burn you.................... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I think its interesting that there hasnt been any forthcoming apology about the manner in which Jack was addressed. Even if Jack WASNT a business member, he is a businessman, and should never have been spoken to in such a manner. It reflects poorly on ALL OF US as a community. Im no saint, and this was exactly what caused such a rocky start to the formal building up of this site with vendors and new traffic and such. anyhow, enough about that. now, about this challenge that Jack proposed. Nothing has been stipulated in terms of if I have to actually knock down the 10 steels, only that I shoot them all. I can do this with one shot from an angle, and I can probably do it twice without a mag well hand-feeding a second shell, ahead of JAck shooting 20 of them with a mag change. But I wont hold the man to technicalities like that, even though it would be an easy grand, and I could use it Not an honorable way to win a bet, if you ask me......nor would having Tom send the beast down, and using two MD20 mags to beat him..... I would love to see some of you all try to beat his times, though. There may be one or two members that have a shot at it. On even terms, I know I cant do it.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I think its interesting that there hasnt been any forthcoming apology about the manner in which Jack was addressed. Even if Jack WASNT a business member, he is a businessman, and should never have been spoken to in such a manner. It reflects poorly on ALL OF US as a community. Im no saint, and this was exactly what caused such a rocky start to the formal building up of this site with vendors and new traffic and such. anyhow, enough about that. now, about this challenge that Jack proposed. Nothing has been stipulated in terms of if I have to actually knock down the 10 steels, only that I shoot them all. I can do this with one shot from an angle, and I can probably do it twice without a mag well hand-feeding a second shell, ahead of JAck shooting 20 of them with a mag change. But I wont hold the man to technicalities like that, even though it would be an easy grand, and I could use it Not an honorable way to win a bet, if you ask me......nor would having Tom send the beast down, and using two MD20 mags to beat him..... I would love to see some of you all try to beat his times, though. There may be one or two members that have a shot at it. On even terms, I know I cant do it.... Did you even read Cobra's post? He did apologize! It was "forthcoming"! Jack's reputation precedes him here. But your post smacks of hero worship and continues cloud the issue even further. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koliadko 207 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Dude WTF are you talking about......I HAVE a dragon! Fortunately only for one week a month............................. (Anyone got a foxhole I can borrow?) Dude, you have no idea how lucky you are that you live as far away as you do! All I did was post an honest review of some work done for me by a "business Member" of the forum. I said nothing negative about anybody. Why all the angst over it? Dude, you really need to get over yourself. Will gave me a hard time. I gave it right back. We're friends and friends do that sometime. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I think its interesting that there hasnt been any forthcoming apology about the manner in which Jack was addressed. Even if Jack WASNT a business member, he is a businessman, and should never have been spoken to in such a manner. It reflects poorly on ALL OF US as a community. Im no saint, and this was exactly what caused such a rocky start to the formal building up of this site with vendors and new traffic and such. anyhow, enough about that. now, about this challenge that Jack proposed. Nothing has been stipulated in terms of if I have to actually knock down the 10 steels, only that I shoot them all. I can do this with one shot from an angle, and I can probably do it twice without a mag well hand-feeding a second shell, ahead of JAck shooting 20 of them with a mag change. But I wont hold the man to technicalities like that, even though it would be an easy grand, and I could use it Not an honorable way to win a bet, if you ask me......nor would having Tom send the beast down, and using two MD20 mags to beat him..... I would love to see some of you all try to beat his times, though. There may be one or two members that have a shot at it. On even terms, I know I cant do it.... I would love to be close enough to take this challenge myself, and do it by Jack's rules, not come up with some 'tin cup' (the movie....those who saw it know what I mean) scheme to try and win. It was an honest challenge, giving a handicap for the non professional shooter to have a snowball's chance in hell. It would be an honor to me just to compete with the man and get to shoot with him. I don't care if I got my ass handed to me in the process. It would be a learning experience. If I started with an eight round mag, fired five times (assuming I hit all my targets good), drop a mag, then quickly reload a second on a closed bolt (no problem for me whatsoever), then I honestly think I would have a chance. Unless he shoots miraculously fast and accurate like Jerry Mculick (sp?) does with a revolver, then there's a slight chance I could at least come close to shooting half what he does...without cheating, and without bragging about my friend Tom and his select fire "beast", which I have also shot BTW, so you ain't all that bvamp... I know Jack shoots with Jerry and knows him well, so he may well be as fast. Like I said, it would be an honor and a pleasure, if it wasn't so damn far away. NOW: To try once again to put all this Jerry Springer crap to rest...I'm not the one who keeps steering it that way BTW....everything was going fine til a couple of people had to come back and throw gas on the flames that had already died down. It was talked about further PRIVATELY, and dropped by myself and Jack, and a truce was made. But since we have drama queens with agendas here who just have to get their noses all in others' affairs all the time...here ya go.... Originally I screwed up by accusing the OP of advertising (and he was before he changed his post) for someone who I wasn't aware was a business member. This was my mistake, I was not alone in this assumption. I had received PMs from other well known members here who also didn't think that was right and were backing me for calling the OP on it. I left it at that and the next day when I saw it again it had brewed into a shitstorm (thanks again to the drama queens). I immediately got on the phone to Jack and apologized for my mistake. I then made a public apology too, but what good was that really, with the drama queens here saying over and over that I OWED one? They should have kept their noses out of others affairs and just waited....but that ain't how things go around here with some... It was dropped, fences were mended with the important parties, and the offensive thread was cleaned up and started anew. Statements had been made though, about the methods which some people like myself use, compared to the methods Jack uses, that made my work sound extremely unprofessional and not worthy of anyone's time or money, at least I took it that way. So I had to at least attempt to get an explanation as to how my work was so much less in quality, just because I use more freehand work, compared to expensive machines. I was not being disrespectful, I was only debating to try and achieve an agreement that there's more than one way to skin a cat. And we did reach an agreement in private messages, more aplogies were given, and it was once again put to rest until these drama queens just had to stir it up again.... I said some things to another man...a very famous man, but still a man. They were not well accepted and I apologized for them. We reached an agreement like two grown men can do, and didn't need all the poking and prodding. This kind of drama is the very thing we have been trying to not have any more on this forum. ANYONE who tries to weigh in and make it bigger is doing nothing but making everything worse. Sometimes it's better to just DROP something, even if everyone doesn't get the answers they want! Here we go one more time FOR THE RECORD. Jack, I am sorry that I addressed you in such a tone as to make you and others feel I was belittling or disrespecting you or your professionalism. We have already had this conversation but these nosey people NEED to hear it so they will believe it. And yes, before some smartass chimes in...that IS a real apology. I'm done here. edited some BTW...because this is all bullshit.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 All the bullshit ends NOW!!!! No more smash mouthing anyone about products business or otherwise. Ben, stop calling folks and stirring the pot... Shannon.... Please, go build stuff.... you know why you don't see the Tromix name come up in crap like this????? he is to busy working and kicking ass to bother with it..... a FANTASTIC model to follow!!!! it ends now..... !!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdtravers 637 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 You got that right!!! I have no hard feelings toward anyone. Maybe some lessons learned here. Let's all just get along and be one big happy disfunctional family!! Take care all, Jack Travers JT Engineering/Millennium Custom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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