Eric Pate 478 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 First of all let me preface by stating that I harbor no ill will nor animosity towards any of our board members involved in law enforcement. I think this is something that everyone should be aware of. I found these two video lectures last night. They're about 15 minutes apiece but well worth the watch if you've got the time. The first video is a law professor explaining in simple terms why you should never ever talk to cops. The second is a police interrogator explaining why you should never ever ever talk to cops! Its really interesting to hear from both sides (and they generally agree!). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) The professor's advice is sound. I only wish I'd watched this lecture a month ago. From my recent experience with "Robocop" I can tell you that I've learned one lesson and learned it well: when the cops come a'knockin never answer the door unless they have a warrant! Talking to the police can only hurt you, (by law). It can never help you. It's that simple. Trying to be "a good citizen" can land you in fucking jail, (as it did me). I truly wish it weren't that way, but it is. Edited July 31, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I agree. Never met a cop I trusted. Do not talk to them, open the door to them, or waive a friendly hello to them as they use anything to incriminate, harass and extort you. Simple as that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaPD 408 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) I agree. Never met a cop I trusted. Do not talk to them, open the door to them, or waive a friendly hello to them as they use anything to incriminate, harass and extort you. Simple as that. BigSal, You have been victimized. You let a cop use a simple, innocent and fun post (pay it forward) to EXTORT a brand new PMAG out of you. Seriously though, I DO appreciate the mag. And imagine, you are getting ready to move into an area where everyone, including the cops, are nice to everyone else on a daily basis just because they still can without getting shot. That will take awhile to get accustomed to and I look forward to visiting my family in that area every chance I get because of that side of society. Simple as that. Edited July 31, 2009 by GeorgiaPD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 haha. ^^^ that is the funniest post I've seen in a while. I wave to lots of cops though, and even talk to them, just not about myself. The 5th amendment is a pretty decent idea, and doubly so today. Im not a criminal, so my silence in that regard is hardly keeping them from doing their job. Mostly I try to talk about the neighborhood, and guns, though the second one doesnt always work out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Sorry Az, I'm not trying to disrespect your profession but people need to understand their rights in order to not incriminate themselves. This big ugly legal machine we've got going here could easily chew up an innocent person if they don't understand their rights. Again, I'm not trying to be insulting but I gotta disagree with you here. Post-Apoc: Sorry for your troubles, glad you know what I'm talking about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunman1 1,753 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I too learned this lesson the hard way. It cost me a couple grand to get a bogus conviction overturned and the court record sealed. Hell...it was like...five years ago that it happened, went to court "again" back in the winter, and just last week I got a surprise in the mailbox from the state police,..."The records in the above named case have been sealed"...WTF ...I had thought it was long over with. DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR WITHOUT A WARRENT, DO NOT TALK TO THEM, YOU MIGHT END UP IN JAIL, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO PAY OUT THE ASS, YOU MIGHT LOOSE YOUR RIGHT TO OWN FIREARMS! JMHO, based on my experience. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
janusthephoenix 24 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I won't get too into detail, but I just had to move because local police got tired of dealing with my roommates domestic drama (frankly I don't really blame them for that) and explicitly threatened to arrest all of us on trumped up charges if he ever heard from any of us again for any reason. That included me, even though none of it had anything to do with me except that I happened to live there also. So yeah, I'm on the "don't talk to cops" train. http://www.amazon.com/Arrest-Proof-Yoursel...3133&sr=8-1 Here's a good book on the subject. Best piece of advice in it is "if cops can't see you, they can't arrest you." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I agree. Never met a cop I trusted. Do not talk to them, open the door to them, or waive a friendly hello to them as they use anything to incriminate, harass and extort you. Simple as that. BigSal, You have been victimized. You let a cop use a simple, innocent and fun post (pay it forward) to EXTORT a brand new PMAG out of you. Seriously though, I DO appreciate the mag. And imagine, you are getting ready to move into an area where everyone, including the cops, are nice to everyone else on a daily basis just because they still can without getting shot. That will take awhile to get accustomed to and I look forward to visiting my family in that area every chance I get because of that side of society. Simple as that. Georgia:> heh, well maybe I should edit my post. Don't get me wrong, I think your a good guy. GeorgiaPD the man I have no problem with, but GeorgiaPD the cop wouldn't be allowed in my house without a warrant. I know whole towns that pay their LEOs in money derived from traffic tickets. Ive seen cops come into restaurants Ive worked and almost expected free food and coffee. Ive seen cops arbitrarily arrest people who are just minding their own business. Trust me, these guys have to much authority and they are not your friends. There is a reason why miranda rights include "everything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law"...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaPD 408 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) I agree. Never met a cop I trusted. Do not talk to them, open the door to them, or waive a friendly hello to them as they use anything to incriminate, harass and extort you. Simple as that. BigSal, You have been victimized. You let a cop use a simple, innocent and fun post (pay it forward) to EXTORT a brand new PMAG out of you. Seriously though, I DO appreciate the mag. And imagine, you are getting ready to move into an area where everyone, including the cops, are nice to everyone else on a daily basis just because they still can without getting shot. That will take awhile to get accustomed to and I look forward to visiting my family in that area every chance I get because of that side of society. Simple as that. Georgia:> heh, well maybe I should edit my post. Don't get me wrong, I think your a good guy. GeorgiaPD the man I have no problem with, but GeorgiaPD the cop wouldn't be allowed in my house without a warrant. I know whole towns that pay their LEOs in money derived from traffic tickets. Ive seen cops come into restaurants Ive worked and almost expected free food and coffee. Ive seen cops arbitrarily arrest people who are just minding their own business. Trust me, these guys have to much authority and they are not your friends. There is a reason why miranda rights include "everything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law"...... Bigsal, I can totally respect that and maybe one day we will have the opportunity to meet in person...Off duty of course Just keep in mind folks that you are right, you do not have to talk to the police or open the door, which I get a lot while on duty. But, most states have laws concerning Domestic Violence, in which case THEY WILL come in without a warrant to ensure that everyone is safe. NOY SAYING that I agree with it all of the time, but it can and will happen in those cases. And it has saved more than one life in the process, but sadly taken a few as well. Other than DV and a case of hot pursuit (Supreme Court wording for chasing someone on foot into a residence), I would ask to see a warrant as well. Edited July 31, 2009 by GeorgiaPD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I posted this back in April, there's a bunch of parts to the series, original thread... http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=38189&hl= Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I've yet to run across all these evil-out-to-get-you cops that a lot of people here apparently run into. Must be a regional thing. Who said anything about evil cops? I think a perfectly honest, good cop could just as easily land you in a whole boatload of trouble and sleep well that night believing that he had done the right thing. I posted this back in April, there's a bunch of parts to the series, original thread... http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=38189&hl= Sorry I missed it. I'll have to go back and watch those tonight. Thanks for the linky. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) Sorry I missed it. I'll have to go back and watch those tonight. Thanks for the linky. No apologies necessary!! I'd rather more people see it than worry about someone posting it again. The information is so important to know. Many officers are honest people doing honest work, but the fact is you can still inadvertently get screwed over by a "good cop" who misunderstands the evidence or your statement or any number of things. Good cops make mistakes, bad cops create mistakes, don't fall victim to either, know your rights. Edited July 31, 2009 by vbrtrmn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) Let me make sure that you understand my point. If you are a suspect in a crime, then by all means, get an attorney. But that is no where near the ridiculous premise of these two attorneys, one who happens to be a cop and is the professor's student, to NEVER TALK TO THE COPS! Without the active cooperation of the citizenry law enforcement would be far less effective in controlling crime in your neighborhood. If that is what you want, because of your own criminal nature, or some other perversity, then by all means, follow the idiotic, self-enriching plan of the professor and his stooge. I honestly have no desire to see any honest man arrested, specially members of this on-line community, but remember all the police need is reasonable suspicion to stop, and if through your action, or inaction or other evidence, that progresses to "Probable Cause" you can be arrested. When questioning a person that I suspect may be involved in criminal activity what I was usually looking for is a reasonable answer to a reasonable question. If I fail to get that, well, I am stuck making my best judgment. It will then be the job of a Judge to see if the case meets the Probable Cause standard in a preliminary hearing, before the case can go to trial. Edited August 1, 2009 by Azrial Quote Link to post Share on other sites
emptythemag 1 Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 If a cop asks you a question on a mere encounter, you are not obligated to reply or engage in the conversation. In fact you may simply walk off. If a cop asks you a simple question, that it non-incriminating in nature, it is at your discretion to answer it or advise the officer that you do not wish to answer the question. If you are the subject of an investigation this doesn't mean that the investigation will simply be over and that the end of it. If you do not wish to answer questions without an attorney that is certainly your right. Can this cost you money...of course, attorneys are not in the "favor business" and want to get paid for their services. The notion that you should "never talk to a cop" is a pretty foolish idea. I have personally rectified many a problem just by hearing both sides of a story or knocked on a door to ask if the car parked out front ...that's about to be towed...belongs to someone inside and if they could move it, etc. There will always be those occasions where having representation makes a whole lot of sense.... but the idea that you should never talk to police...ever.... is kind of over the top in my opinion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Heres what happens when you talk to cops in China! "I have 3 demands or I'll kill the boy" Police negotiators asses the situation from next door. Police negotiators make first contact. Negotiations begin. Negotiations conclude Negotiations are successful. Here we would have closed the street indefinitely, Negotiated for umpteen hours, then spent 5 million dollars on giving him a fair trial & supplying him room & board for life. Maybe that's why their products are so much cheaper than ours? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kwicko 8 Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Wow, it's not often I see the Chinese justice system and law enforcement tactics as ones to be envied... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Wow, it's not often I see the Chinese justice system and law enforcement tactics as ones to be envied...This ^^^ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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