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question. accuracy. savage 10 308


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Anyone with experience with a pre-accutrigger Savage 10FP with 20 inch bull barrel..

 

I took it to the range for the first time today. at 100 yards. using different Russian ammo (borrowed from the Saiga) - I would get about 2 inch groups at 100 yards. Using some Remington coreLock 150 grain hunting ammo, i would get between 1-2 MOA.

 

I haven't tried it with anything else yet (match, etc.)

 

Shooting off a bipod and scoped.

 

Just wondering if this was typical.

 

I read that these are sub MOA with the right ammo right out of the box.

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I can run a dollar bill under the barrel so it isn't touching the stock. I've also made sure the rings are on tight. The stock is on tight as well (the 2 screws holding it together).

 

Anything else?

 

One thing I noticed was all i shot was 150 grain bullets. For those who have shot 150 grainers out of 20 inch barrels (1:10 twist i think), what kind of groups did you get?

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try a box of Federal Gold Medal Match

+1 for the Federal Gold Match with 168 grainers..My bull barrel Savage (police tactical package) will shoot about 1.5-2 moa with the lighter loads, but goes way under 1 moa with the 168 and heavier bullets. I would give them a try and see if everything tightens up a bit.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm still wanting to be impressed. Perhaps I also need some practice. I took it out for the 2nd time today. I shot Winchester Silvertips/Ballistics in 168 and Federal Match Gold in 168 and a box of Federal blue box from Walmart in 150.

 

The Winchesters were the worst at allmost 2 inches at 100 yards. The Federal Match Gold shot 1.2 inches at 100 yards but had 2 groups of .4 inches at 50 yards. The blue box Federals were able to manage with 1.3ish groups.

 

I just had a bipod and nothing really on the other end of the stock. I guess I need practice? What else can I check? I've made sure the scope was tight. The barrel is indeed free floating. I cleaned the bore well. I'm thinking of changes the scope since it's isn't the best quality...but it should work for 100 yards right?

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I'm still wanting to be impressed. Perhaps I also need some practice. I took it out for the 2nd time today. I shot Winchester Silvertips/Ballistics in 168 and Federal Match Gold in 168 and a box of Federal blue box from Walmart in 150.

 

The Winchesters were the worst at allmost 2 inches at 100 yards. The Federal Match Gold shot 1.2 inches at 100 yards but had 2 groups of .4 inches at 50 yards. The blue box Federals were able to manage with 1.3ish groups.

 

I just had a bipod and nothing really on the other end of the stock. I guess I need practice? What else can I check? I've made sure the scope was tight. The barrel is indeed free floating. I cleaned the bore well. I'm thinking of changes the scope since it's isn't the best quality...but it should work for 100 yards right?

 

Vujade,

 

There are a couple of things that you may want to check. I know you stated that the scope was on solid, but did you check the actual scope base(s) as well or just the scope rings. Also, check and make sure that you action is torqued to spec inside of your stock. Where is your trigger set at on a guage (lbs)? Additionally, if you are trying to shoot for the best possible groups with the least amount of shooter error, then you need to sandbag the gun. Long range accurate shooting is an expensive hobby as the ammo prices for quality match grade projectiles is way high. Work at it in a process of elimination. Check one thing, shoot for groups. Check another thing, shoot for groups and on and on. You will eventually get it straightened out. And yes, it does take lots of practice. Our sniper team dedicates more than 8 hours a month just for nothing but shooting and this is still not enough. Keep us posted and we will help in any possible way. Just don't give up as the end result will be worth it in the long run.

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another question..

 

thanks for the reply. Yes, I made sure the base is tight also. another question - what is the general rule on how tight to make something (base, rings, etc.) I just tighten it until it won't move anymore.

 

how do you make sure the "action is torqued to spec"?

 

I'll work on getting a suitable rest and try again.

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another question..

 

thanks for the reply. Yes, I made sure the base is tight also. another question - what is the general rule on how tight to make something (base, rings, etc.) I just tighten it until it won't move anymore.

 

how do you make sure the "action is torqued to spec"?

 

I'll work on getting a suitable rest and try again.

 

Vujade,

 

As far as bases, rings and mounts are concerned, I normally consult the manufacturer by email or instructions for the proper torque settings. It is possible to make something too tight and cause a shift. Same goes for your stock. You can place too much pressure on one spot and cause it to apply pressure in another spot. As far as torquing to specs, I use a small inch/pound torque wrench with the proper bits attached. They can be purchased pretty cheap from Sears, Harbor Freight, Northern Tools, etc.

 

And don't get too wrapped up in the whole "my gun has to shoot 1/2 inch groups at a bazillion yards thing. Yes, it is great if it can, but you are getting groups very near minute of angle right now with little practice out of the gun. I'm guessing that you will be able to tighten those up with a little more practice on trigger control, sandbagging, etc. Our team has some guns that only shoot minute of angle no matter who is behind the trigger, so don't be upset with yourself or the gun. Just find what you and the gun like and go from there. If you are worried about the scope, I have an extra one that I will send you to play with and you can return it when you are done. Drop me a PM if you just want to do a little experimenting. It's not a super high end model, but it has shot tight groups with every gun that it has been mounted on. Try some dry firing exercises to help develop the trigger control that is needed for precision shooting and use a gauge to check out what your trigger is breaking at.

 

It's early (for me), I'm tired and out of ideas for now, but keep us posted.

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  • 2 weeks later...

My 10fp in .223 with Black Hills 68 grain will cloverleaf 5 shots @100 . Have a COMPETENT gunsmith check the muzzle crown. Sometimes people will clean a bolt gun from the muzzle and dick up the crown. Also, the pre-accutrigger 10fp came with a factory adjustable trigger. Mine was set at about 8 lbs when I got it. Check your barrel to ensure it free floats while on the rest or bags. My factory stock would touch when pressure was applied. I replaced it with a Bell and Carlson stock that I had epoxied a piece of 1/4" aluminum into after removing the cross members, and then glass bedded it. Now it's absolutely rigid, no reasonable amount of pressure will cause it to contact the barrel. Good shooting, hope this helps.

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If it were me...

Ditch the bipod and put both the front and REAR of the gun on sand bags. Your pre accutrigger trigger will not produce great results if it's just you on the other end. Also, make sure your scope can really target on exactly one point at 100 yards, many of them can't (without paralax), so it may not be the rifle. Keep your face/cheek in the exact same spot when shooting, or your scope may be the source of your issues. Clean your gun (with a bore brush) to make sure your accuracy is not falling off due to copper fouling.

 

With most factory ammo it will be difficult to tell if you're making progress once you get beyond the 1.5 inch groups. You already saw the higher quality stuff make a difference, but to feed a 308 that stuff through your learnings will be very very costly. I've found it cheaper to start with my 22 for best groups, then go to the centerfires after about 30-50 rounds of quality bench shooting with the 22. Saves time and money when it's all said and done as it's difficult for anyone to shoot best groups without settling into the task for awhile. I often shoot less than 20 rounds of centerfire on a trip to the range, but usually learn everything I wanted to know before I left home.

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thanks for all the advice!

 

+ torque screwdriver: check.

+ tighten bases: check. i was still able to actually tighten the front base a 1/8 turn without much effort and i hear those need to be REALLY tight

+ barrel free floating: check.

+ tested trigger weight: check. friend said it's about 3 pounds and crisp.

 

- I'll look into getting some bags or something to replace the bipod for now. Just to remove it out of the equation.

- new scope on order. The 'current' scope was an old cheapy Simmons and i decided to remove that out of the equation. I have a Nikon Buckmaster on order. I'll also have Academy mount it for me since the guy there seems to be very knowledgeable.

 

I'll give it a try hopefully this coming week and report.

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I forgot to ask...

 

1. The muzzle is recessed. Can you just visually see if a muzzle is "dicked up"? I don't see any imperfections on the muzzle end.

 

2. Headspace. how do you check that?

 

I doubt the headspace is off, but it is simple to check. You will need a set of head space gages for .308

 

The three-gauge set consists of "Go," "No Go" and "Field" gauges.

The Go gauge is the one which corresponds to minimum chamber dimensions, and your bolt should close on it.

 

The No-Go gauge corresponds to maximum dimensions, and your bolt should not close on it.

 

The Field gauge measures the largest safe dimensions, and any bolt that closes on it should be immediately tended to.

 

First completely disassemble the bolt; make sure you remember how it came apart so you can reassemble it later.

 

Reassemble your bolt without the firing pin or the ejector installed. Slip the go gauge into the bolt face and let the extractor hold it in place. The bolt should close and lock down on the go gage but not on the no-go gage.

 

If the bolt closes on the No-Go you have a rifle that is going to be hard on brass. If the chamber swallows a Field gauge, you have a problem.

Edited by Banshee
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Vujade,

 

If you can, find a local gunsmith that has the headspace gauges. No sense in spending the money on the gauges if you will only be using them one time. The same gunsmith can check you muzzle crown as well, but this may not even be a problem. Your groups already tightened up when you started using some good quality match ammo, so I think you are probably good on most everything else. Get the new scope mounted and sighted. Take the time to warm up and sandbag the gun. The more that you can practice the happier that you will be, even if it is just dry firing. You can do that at home and it will cost you nothing or at the range before you start running live rounds through the gun.

 

And yes, long range precision shooting can be a very expensive hobby if you take it to the extremes. Just practice your trigger control and breathing techniques and you will be surprised at the results. Hope some of the info provided by everyone here has or will help you in the end.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

I finally was able to get to the range!

 

Attached are some groups. Not too bad for a newbie I guess. I was shaking like a leaf (nervous?) This is with a new scope (Nikon Buckmaster) and I made sure I mounted it tight (but not too tight). It still sat on it's bipod. I used some Hornandy TAP ammo. I think one of the BIG things I learned is to make sure to clean that bore. I had previously shot it with less than stellar results and I was just using Breakfree. Even as we speak, it's soaking in some bore cleaner so that it'll be ready for next time. I'm sure the new scope helped also.

 

Right target was at 50 yards - managed about a .31 inch group with 3 shots.

 

The one on the left was the 100 yard attempt, I played with the scope adjustments to bring it to the left a bit but may have gone too far. I managed just under an inch! (.75 inch)

 

I've still got a lot to learn. I still kept shaking ever so slightly as I try to keep the cross hairs on the target.

 

Thanks so much for everyone's help/advise! I'm happy for now.

post-7751-12546356120024_thumb.jpg

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