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I just finished reading the 4 pages on loading a full mag with the bolt closed. It was entertaining, but left something unanswered, at least for me.

 

So, I gots to axe y'all a question about just that.

 

Will having the bolt assembly polished allow leaving a full mag in place with the bolt closed, without deforming the top round?

I don't have much trouble loading a full 10 round mag in my S-12 with the bolt closed. Only problem is when I go to cycle the bolt a week or so later, the top round is deformed and won't feed. That leaves me with a jam when I least need it. If polishing the bolt (and I "ass-u-me" relieving the bottom of the bolt in the process) will allow me to keep a full mag in the gun on a closed bolt without deforming the top round, I just may look further into having it done for me. Thanks to the poor availability of replacement parts, I don't want to take a chance ruining my bolt asembly and not being able to get one to replace it, so I'd rather pay someone to do it right.

 

My S-12 is now one of my 4 HD weapons, so I need it to be ready to use if necessary. Currently, I leave a full mag in it with the bolt locked back on the notch cut into the safety selector. Only problem with that is that due to the shape of the bolt handle, even with the notch in the safety selector cut at an angle, the strong spring pressure wants to bounce the bolt handle loose from the notch if the gun is jarred for any reason, like falling over from being stood up against furniture. This leaves me with a fully loaded gun with the safety selector not fully engaged, not something I want in the house.

 

Does anyone here have their bolt polished and leave the gun with a full mag on a closed bolt, and not have the top round deform after a while?

Comments?

 

Thanks.

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I just finished reading the 4 pages on loading a full mag with the bolt closed. It was entertaining, but left something unanswered, at least for me.

 

So, I gots to axe y'all a question about just that.

 

Will having the bolt assembly polished allow leaving a full mag in place with the bolt closed, without deforming the top round?

I don't have much trouble loading a full 10 round mag in my S-12 with the bolt closed. Only problem is when I go to cycle the bolt a week or so later, the top round is deformed and won't feed. That leaves me with a jam when I least need it. If polishing the bolt (and I "ass-u-me" relieving the bottom of the bolt in the process) will allow me to keep a full mag in the gun on a closed bolt without deforming the top round, I just may look further into having it done for me. Thanks to the poor availability of replacement parts, I don't want to take a chance ruining my bolt asembly and not being able to get one to replace it, so I'd rather pay someone to do it right.

 

My S-12 is now one of my 4 HD weapons, so I need it to be ready to use if necessary. Currently, I leave a full mag in it with the bolt locked back on the notch cut into the safety selector. Only problem with that is that due to the shape of the bolt handle, even with the notch in the safety selector cut at an angle, the strong spring pressure wants to bounce the bolt handle loose from the notch if the gun is jarred for any reason, like falling over from being stood up against furniture. This leaves me with a fully loaded gun with the safety selector not fully engaged, not something I want in the house.

 

Does anyone here have their bolt polished and leave the gun with a full mag on a closed bolt, and not have the top round deform after a while?

Comments?

 

Thanks.

No.

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I think the most creative solution to this problem was the person who put a pin through his mag that would keep the rounds down far enough to prevent this.

 

Still pulling the pin is a extra action.

 

I don't store my mags in my gun loaded, but if I did i would mod the selector lever to act as a BHO, then load the mag on a open bolt, and put the saftey on. This way you drop the saftey, and rack the bolt as you normaly would with no extra actions.

 

Not quite the answer your looking for, but i hope this helps.

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I never leave mine with a mag in it, too dangerous.. the nice thing about the mag fed shotgun is that it takes so little time to shove that mag in there and pull the charger back. Since you use it for HD, you should probably spend some time practicing putting the mag in the receiver in the dark.

 

Per bolt polishing, Cobra 76 two just did mine... top rate job!

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I think the most creative solution to this problem was the person who put a pin through his mag that would keep the rounds down far enough to prevent this.

 

Still pulling the pin is a extra action.

 

I don't store my mags in my gun loaded, but if I did i would mod the selector lever to act as a BHO, then load the mag on a open bolt, and put the saftey on. This way you drop the saftey, and rack the bolt as you normaly would with no extra actions.

 

Not quite the answer your looking for, but i hope this helps.

+1.

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Your simple solution is to use the BHO (bolt hold open).

 

Rack back the bolt carrier all the way.

Press the BHO lever.

Insert the loaded mag.

 

Now, all that is needed (in case of home invasion), is to pull back slightly on the bolt carrier until you hear the BHO disengage, and let the bolt carrier ride home. Now you are ready to fire.

 

Chances are you won't have to fire a shot. Most people will run like hell at the sound of a weapon being racked, especially an AK or pump shotgun!

 

The bolt carrier can be held in the "open" position for an indefinate period of time, just like mags can be loaded forever as well. Spring compression has no more effect on springs as leaving them extended. It's constant use over a long period of time that weakens them.

 

Now if you have kids in your house, I wouldn't recommend this solution.

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Now, all that is needed (in case of home invasion), is to pull back slightly on the bolt carrier until you hear the BHO disengage, and let the bolt carrier ride home. Now you are ready to fire.

 

Chances are you won't have to fire a shot. Most people will run like hell at the sound of a weapon being racked, especially an AK or pump shotgun!

 

A lot of people on the internet say things like this, but I would never do it. If my weapon light shining on them can possibly be a complete surprise (because I was quiet/stealthy on my approach), that would be my preferance. I want to give myself the maximum amount of time possible to ID the threat and if appropriate, take it out.

Edited by jekbrown
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I have tested this theory by keeping a fully loaded AGP 10 rdr in my shotty with the bolt mod. Left it in there for one week with Federal Bulk pack ammo. (I wouldn't suggest trying it with that winchester universal crap, it's to soft and thin and deforms easily)

After a week, I charged the weapon and it chambered. It was still slightly deformed but not enough to keep it from loading.

This was just my experience, with my gun. YMMV...

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I like to leave the mag in mine, but most likely will stop. I have tested many rounds on top. I come up with staggering my loads from slug on top to what ever you want.

With the bolt mods, the case will deform mildly with the slug but still chamber.

I have left it like this for weeks and weeks at a time and once in a while rack it just to see, STILL WORKS.

 

If you can't understand my 5th grade writing, I can take a pic if you like.

Edited by Glockmonger
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I like to leave the mag in mine, but most likely will stop. I have tested many rounds on top. I come up with staggering my loads from slug on top to what ever you want.

With the bolt mods, the case will deform mildly with the slug but still chamber.

I have left it like this for weeks and weeks at a time and once in a while rack it just to see, STILL WORKS.

 

If you can't understand my 5th grade writing, I can take a pic if you like.

If the pic your going to take is anything like the one in your sig... I'm interested in seeing it...

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Your simple solution is to use the BHO (bolt hold open).

 

Rack back the bolt carrier all the way.

Press the BHO lever.

Insert the loaded mag.

 

Now, all that is needed (in case of home invasion), is to pull back slightly on the bolt carrier until you hear the BHO disengage, and let the bolt carrier ride home. Now you are ready to fire.

 

Chances are you won't have to fire a shot. Most people will run like hell at the sound of a weapon being racked, especially an AK or pump shotgun!

 

The bolt carrier can be held in the "open" position for an indefinate period of time, just like mags can be loaded forever as well. Spring compression has no more effect on springs as leaving them extended. It's constant use over a long period of time that weakens them.

 

Now if you have kids in your house, I wouldn't recommend this solution.

 

 

This is what I do, it works fine for me. I have no children in the house and very few visitors, so leaving loaded guns around is not a problem for me.

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Unless you have children, of any age, that you can not trust, an unloaded gun for self-defense is a bad idea promulgated by lawyers. That said, there is a time and place for firearms to be in this condition.

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Did you read your manual? If you did it tells you DO NOT STORE/keep the bolt back to prevent the mainspring from residual strain.

Maybe it does. I think mine is in Russian, but anyway....

 

Do some research on spring steel. I tried to explain this above, but see for yourself.

 

If this were the case, there would be no need for a reduced tension mainspring......you could just lock it back for a week and be good to go.

 

BTW, When not in use, I have kept mine locked back from day 1 and that sombitch is still strong as ever.

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Okay, so it looks like I'll just continue with what I 've been doing, which is to leave the bolt locked back in the safety selector notch with a full mag in the gun.

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

Why would you leave the bolt locked back? Your spring will eventually become weak becuase of the tension on it. But do what you want to do. Just sounds like a stupid thing to do.

 

That is NOT true. Springs do not weaken due to remaining compressed. They wear by repeated compressions.

 

And give the guy a break, this isn't grammar school. He was just using some "creative writing". I'm sure he knows how to spell.

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So as far as springs go, if they lost their strength from being compressed would you have to put your car on jack stands if you weren't going to drive it? Would all the old cars you see sitting in junkyards and rednecks lawns eventually sit on the frame rails due to spring fatigue? And yes, I have a 68 Chevy truck sitting in my backyard waiting for me to win the lottery, so I must be a redneck! ;) Damn reality sucks, I guess I am not the sexual dynamo I thought I was either. :unsure:

Edited by brvt1000
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Has anyone experimented with just loading a mag with one or two less rounds to see if the tension is less on a closed bolt? Maybe enough to keep from round deformation?

 

Let me know, I have to keep mine locked up and it is a b*tch leaving a ten rounder engaged due to confiment of space in my safe.

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No worries if your main spring(s) sack out. I just shipped a load of them to Blackjack Buffers, so you can buy a replacement from Randy if you like. The springs do get weak. The ones in my personal gun are pretty sacked out and I can definately tell they are much weaker than a new set.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix Corp

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No worries if your main spring(s) sack out. I just shipped a load of them to Blackjack Buffers, so you can buy a replacement from Randy if you like. The springs do get weak. The ones in my personal gun are pretty sacked out and I can definately tell they are much weaker than a new set.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix Corp

 

Spoken like a true salesman.

 

 

:rolleyes:

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No worries if your main spring(s) sack out. I just shipped a load of them to Blackjack Buffers, so you can buy a replacement from Randy if you like. The springs do get weak. The ones in my personal gun are pretty sacked out and I can definately tell they are much weaker than a new set.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix Corp

 

Spoken like a true salesman.

 

 

:rolleyes:

 

Actually, it's spoken more like an industry expert with excellent advice on where to get a quality replacement part. Not sure if you were being sarcastic or what, and no offense to all the "true salesmen" on the forum, but Tony's reputation and work speaks for itself. I'll be picking up at least a couple of those springs.

 

Zach

KROSS FA

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Actually, it's spoken more like an industry expert with excellent advice on where to get a quality replacement part. Not sure if you were being sarcastic or what, and no offense to all the "true salesmen" on the forum, but Tony's reputation and work speaks for itself. I'll be picking up at least a couple of those springs.

 

Zach

KROSS FA

 

Well, ZACH

 

I'm well aware of who Tony is and his reputation. I wasn't taking a shot at him, just excercising a little humor. Relax dude.

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As far as the grammar and spelling is concerned, I was resorting to satire. Anyone who reads my posts will know immediately that I can wrtie quite well. Fact is my wife is a linguistics expert with a Masters +72, almost a Doctorate. She teaches English to kids who speak no English at all. She frequently asks me how to use correct grammar, syntax, and spelling. When you see me write in "Ebonics", Spanglish, or "Redneck", which I do occasionally to lighten up a post or inject a little humor, know that it's done for effect. Do note however that I am not a "typist". I have to look at the keys when I type, and frequently have fat fingers, so cut me some slack for my typos.

 

As far as compressed springs losing their tension, there have been 1911 mags filled with ammo since WWII that still feed as well as new ones. FAL owners regularly leave their 20 and even 30 round mags filled with no ill effect. I have never heard of a FAL that needed its recoil spring replaced, nor those on SIG P220s like my own, which is now somewhere around 25 years old and has many thousands of rounds through it. Current mags in it and its backups are loaded and have been for over 10 years. They function exactly like brand new ones. Not saying it never happened, just that if it did, I've not heard of it.Perhaps Russian springs are made cheaper and lose tension when compressed for any length of time, but that would be a first for me. In most cases, it's frequent repeat compressing and expanding the springs that causes loss of tension, but even that takes a considerable amount of repeat abuse.

 

YMMV

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Has anyone experimented with just loading a mag with one or two less rounds to see if the tension is less on a closed bolt? Maybe enough to keep from round deformation?

 

Let me know, I have to keep mine locked up and it is a b*tch leaving a ten rounder engaged due to confiment of space in my safe.

 

I haven't had any issues with shell deformation with my Surefire 12 round mag and lightly polished bolt. I load it on a closed bolt each night before I go to bed and the spring in the mag seems to be light enough to not adversely affect the shape of the top shell.

Edited by McDuck
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Actually, it's spoken more like an industry expert with excellent advice on where to get a quality replacement part. Not sure if you were being sarcastic or what, and no offense to all the "true salesmen" on the forum, but Tony's reputation and work speaks for itself. I'll be picking up at least a couple of those springs.

 

Zach

KROSS FA

 

Well, ZACH

 

I'm well aware of who Tony is and his reputation. I wasn't taking a shot at him, just excercising a little humor. Relax dude.

 

 

My apologies to you, Darkhorse, I just wasn't sure how it was intended. I consider Tony a friend and can personally attest to his knowledge and craftsmanship. Anytime he or BobAsh chime in on the forum regarding the Saiga 12 weapon platform it can only be beneficial to members/readers.

 

Zach

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