Walther P22 for Home Defense?

[Tokageko 8]

Wow... Ok, so that works for me. I'll be sure to mention that aneccdote to anyone else who asks about 22lr as a home defense round (when there are better choices readily available). Thanks JDA1

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

I know its bad form to recommend a non saiga shotgun.. 

 

But a Mossberg 500 "Cruiser" 18" pistol grip can be had cheap.. and is very good for defense. Basic, always reliable.. just business for cheap.

 

http://www.usagunsales.com/store/customer/...&cat=148&page=2

 

And, one advantage of the barrel mag, is you can more reliably load different ammo. i.e. 2 bird shot, then slugs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

yep....Winchester 1300 Pistol Gripped Defender model served me right for 5 years. Pulled it out late at night on a drunk Marine who climbed into my upstairs room because he didn't have a place to go flop, and he did'nt want to ring my door, and wake up my family.

 

Needless to say....he almost died. Remember never to pull the trigger until you have positively identified the target/threat......that would have been a bad day for everyone....

 

he felt bad the next night after sobering up.....

 

friggin jag-off....douglas your a tard!

[lollygagger 1]

Edited March 14, 2005 by lollygagger

[agent_242 0]

I will be getting a Makarov soon, but that will not be my home defense weapon.

 

My Saiga AK 7.62 (with Pistol Grip Conversion and Romanian Folding stock) would be my first home defense weapon (with Wolf HP ammo).

 

With a 30 round magazine, it is hard to miss person 30 times in a close perimeter.

 

Something compact and very very very strong is your best bet for home defense. Go for a shotgun or a reliable compact rifle.

 

Remember.....ONE SHOT, ONE KILL

 

It should not take more than one bullet to kill someone (and if you aren't an expert shooter, it shouldn't take more than 2-4).

[lollygagger 1]

Remember.....ONE SHOT, ONE KILL

 

It should not take more than one bullet to kill someone (and if you aren't an expert shooter, it shouldn't take more than 2-4).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You don't quite get it...

 

The EXTRA rounds are great to tick off just to really, really, really get folks attention & have lotsa fun doing it.

 

The effect after placing several quick rounds in the ground and/or vechicle around a feller, and then, smiling with a smoking gun aimed about his belt buckle while you say "hi-dee" is pretty special.

 

Crazy & lethal just can't be beat!

 

Lollygagger (Works for me.)

[Tokageko 8]

Thank you again for your wise and courteous contributions Lollygagger.

</END sarcasm>

 

[stokstad 4]

I will be getting a Makarov soon, but that will not be my home defense weapon.

 

My Saiga AK 7.62 (with Pistol Grip Conversion and Romanian Folding stock) would be my first home defense weapon (with Wolf HP ammo). 

 

With a 30 round magazine, it is hard to miss person 30 times in a close perimeter.

 

Something compact and very very very strong is your best bet for home defense. Go for a shotgun or a reliable compact rifle.

 

Remember.....ONE SHOT, ONE KILL

 

It should not take more than one bullet to kill someone (and if you aren't an expert shooter, it shouldn't take more than 2-4).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Just remember Wolf hollow point isnt really hollow point. It FMJ with a hole drilled in the end. Never really expands like true HP bullets. So when your spraying those 30 rnds they are going to be flying through walls and such....

[agent_242 0]

[stokstad 4]

Even that one shot if it doesnt expand and slow can go through the bad guy and through the wall into another room or if you live in an apartrment into the next apartment. I guess I would look for some better home defense rounds than wolf hollow point is what I am trying to say. Maybe I am wrong. I am sure someone else on the board here has some experience or oppinion on this as well. The reason they use compat rifles is for manuverabilty. Its esier to get around in tight spaces with shorter weapons. I am not saying using a Saiga for home defens is a bad idea I am saying using wolf hollow point is.

[CrazyJ 0]

Agent, those "compact rifles" they use are full-auto, usually set to three-round burst. If they're restricted to semi-auto only, they'd switch to a shotgun.

[Tokageko 8]

Ok, so it's way off topic, but I have to comment on WOLF ammo. Actually, I have to comment on Silver Bear, as I don't have as much experience with the WOLF. A friend of mine brought along a DVD player to a friend's house, where we were planning on shooting. We proceeded to hang it from a tree limb using the power cord. He was using a MAK 90 with Silver Bear HP ammunition. After our shooting session, we decided to take apart the DVD player to see what kind of internal damage there was.

 

We had been shooting at about 75 yards. The 308's from my CETME went through both sides without stopping, as expected. However, a good number of the 7.62x39's only went in one side and didn't come out the other. Apparently, just going through the top cover of the DVD player was enough to strip the copper jackets off of the bullets. Of the bullets that did get through and were recovered from the back stop (dirt), many of them were a deformed lead core.

 

Now for the disclaimer: I know of no one who would be able to shoot an intruder at 75 yards distance, inside their house. I know that human bodies are a lot softer and differently constructed than DVD players. I am not suggesting that these "results" (non-scientific) prove the usefulness of Silver Bear HP 7.62x39 for home defense use... or any use for that matter.

 

I just thought you'd be interested to know what I'd seen.

[Bvamp 604]

you guys go light on your tech-targets I can tell. The last time I shot up an old computer, after the first mags were done, I think if i recall correctly, some of the 7.62 didnt penetrate, and 2 out of 8 12 gauge slugs didnt penetrate. I am almost positive almost all of the first 20 rounds of 5.56 penetrated both sides of the steel case, and the PC boards in it. we dumped a few hundred more rounds into it over the course of the afternoon, and it caught fire. loads a fun, there was almost nothing left to it to toss in the garbage.

 

I think the bi-metal russian ammo like the wolf i use and that silver bear stuff doesnt have the jacket on there too well. Im thinking its just a shell, and not locked into the core's lead. If i wasnt afraid of the thing exploding, I would take a steel case apart and cut a bullet in half lengthwise and see exactly how the jacket is on there.

 

steel case + bimetal bullet == spark == live round explosion in your hand or face

[G O B 3,516]

Special forces have allowances for collateral damage. Your family or neighbors are not acceptable as collaterial damage. Use a shotgun with #1 through #4 shot and do the job right. Unless of course you live alone, and your only neighbor is named fienstine!

 

G O B

[lollygagger 1]

Another thing, it is very easy to shot a person with a compact rifle no more than 15-20 feet away in a house.

 

 

If Special Force uses compact rifles for indoor shooting, then that means compact rifles are the best choice for indoor combat.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh, really?

 

Try this: Have a friend use a pencil (represents a pistol)...

 

and you, a broomstick (represents a long gun).

 

Then, stand that 15 feet from eachother, point the representative weapons down...

 

Call "draw" -and see who can point at who the quickest.

 

This will teach you something about the tactical use of pistols. The FBI and law enforcement has learned this same stupid lesson over and over again -after they get their asses blown away by some perps.

 

I admit that this is limited with a subgun length weapon...but it remains a trade off. FA (full auto) is also with it's limitations in such scenarios.

 

The greatly touted shotgun for close quarters is a common DUMB recommendation you hear.

 

Bottom line, handguns just are not for concealed carry -they have a tactical application.

 

Just some observations.

 

Lollygagger

[k_dawg 0]

i'm not sure about you.. but when I see SWAT/etc busting in adn clearing a house.. they don't have their firearms pointed straight down!

[lollygagger 1]

i'm not sure about you.. but when I see SWAT/etc busting in adn clearing a house.. they don't have their firearms pointed straight down!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

T.V aside, the POINT was to have a experiment to AQUIRE a target STARTING from the same position.

 

People with guns, even cops, don't always run around pointing the muzzle at potential threats -there was a time, possibly, when the weapon was pointed in a actual safe direction.

 

Lollygagger

[CrazyJ 0]

Pistol: 3 shots for a fairly good chance of a quick stop. Pro: One hand free. Con: Much less accurate under stress.

SMG: 3 rd burst

Shotgun: 1 shot

Pro for both: Accuracy/effectiveness/rate of fire. Con: Both hands busy.

 

This is my last post in this thread.

[lollygagger 1]

This is my last post in this thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Me too!

 

Lollygagger

[k_dawg 0]

T.V aside, the POINT was to have a experiment to AQUIRE a target STARTING from the same position.

 

People with guns, even cops, don't always run around pointing the muzzle at potential threats -there was a time, possibly, when the weapon was pointed in a actual safe direction.

 

 

Fair enough..

 

Tell you what. We'll set up a tactical situation to determine how fast you can "aquaire" a target.

 

We'll let you sleep. At some random point, we'll wake you up without warning. You can grab your pistol, and I'll have my pistol grip shotgun. It'll be dark, and you won't know exactly where I am, and I won't know exactly where you are..

 

game on?

[Bvamp 604]

ill play with you two. I get to be the one waking you up with the gun to your head though

[lollygagger 1]

T.V aside, the POINT was to have a experiment to AQUIRE a target STARTING from the same position.

 

People with guns, even cops, don't always run around pointing the muzzle at potential threats -there was a time, possibly, when the weapon was pointed in a actual safe direction.

 

 

Fair enough..

 

Tell you what. We'll set up a tactical situation to determine how fast you can "aquaire" a target.

 

We'll let you sleep. At some random point, we'll wake you up without warning. You can grab your pistol, and I'll have my pistol grip shotgun. It'll be dark, and you won't know exactly where I am, and I won't know exactly where you are..

 

game on?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Golly! I guess I'd have to employ my secret decoder ring and my magic crystal to open a portal to Toys R Us for you!

 

Lollygagger (Children!)

[agent_242 0]

Even that one shot if it doesnt expand and slow can go through the bad guy and through the wall into another room or if you live in an apartrment into the next apartment. I guess I would look for some better home defense rounds than wolf hollow point is what I am trying to say. Maybe I am wrong. I am sure someone else on the board here has some experience or oppinion on this as well. The reason they use compat rifles is for manuverabilty. Its esier to get around in tight spaces with shorter weapons. I am not saying using a Saiga for home defens is a bad idea I am saying using wolf hollow point is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Let me correct myself, in my Saiga AK I use PMC Green Frangible Ammo for home defense. This type of ammo doesn't over penetrate nor does it ricochet.

 

It is the safest type of ammo to use indoor. Thus, the compact rifle is the best weapon for indoor use because you have 30 round capability plus the option of using a high power round that will not over penetrate.

 

DO YOUR RESEARCH ON FRANGIBLE AMMO! It is used by SWAT and SF teams when they enter areas where they have to be sensitive with the environment (ex. gas and chemical tanks, schools, et..)

 

[stokstad 4]

Even that one shot if it doesnt expand and slow can go through the bad guy and through the wall into another room or if you live in an apartrment into the next apartment. I guess I would look for some better home defense rounds than wolf hollow point is what I am trying to say. Maybe I am wrong. I am sure someone else on the board here has some experience or oppinion on this as well. The reason they use compat rifles is for manuverabilty. Its esier to get around in tight spaces with shorter weapons. I am not saying using a Saiga for home defens is a bad idea I am saying using wolf hollow point is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Let me correct myself, in my Saiga AK I use PMC Green Frangible Ammo for home defense. This type of ammo doesn't over penetrate nor does it ricochet.

 

It is the safest type of ammo to use indoor. Thus, the compact rifle is the best weapon for indoor use because you have 30 round capability plus the option of using a high power round that will not over penetrate.

 

DO YOUR RESEARCH ON FRANGIBLE AMMO! It is used by SWAT and SF teams when they enter areas where they have to be sensitive with the environment (ex. gas and chemical tanks, schools, et..)

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Exactly thats what i was trying to say. Wolf isnt frangible.

[Tokageko 8]

Bvamp: If you want to see what the inside of a bullet looks like, I would really reccomend pulling it from the case first. If you can't find a "kinetic bullet puller" or have no use for one, you could probably substitute a vise and a pair of pliers... or just two pair of pliers.... or whatever. Just preformed this operation last night for a friend, on a misfired 8mm mauser cartridge. Pulled the bullet, removed the powder, reseated the bullet, and drilled a hole through the base of the case (both sides). I believe he is planning on using it as a necklace.

 

 

On Frangible ammo: I wasn't aware that PMC made frangible 7.62x39. What kind of prices can you expect on that? Thanks in advance.

[lollygagger 1]

Interesting...

 

PMC does have it: LINK

 

Who'd a thunk it?

 

Lollygagger

[Bvamp 604]

yeh I know what a bullet puller is. what i was saying is i have heard of steel cased russian ammo exploding when that has been tried. if i didnt think there was a 1 in 1000 chance of that happening, id take the bullet out and cut it in half, is what i was saying.

[lollygagger 1]

ill play with you two. I get to be the one waking you up with the gun to your head though

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've had it with all this!!!

 

Okay, here's the deal: I'm going to hold the gun at my own head & never sleep -y'all will never get the drop on me then. One move and the Lollygagger is history.

 

There!

 

Lollygagger (Is this the Forrest Gump thread?)

[Bvamp 604]

bastard! you one upped my sarcasm! youd make a FINE NYer!

[SammoH 0]

Ok, so I'm slow and late in any reply to this. My reply may not even be relevant. Unfortunately, I only get the chance to check this forum once in a while now.

 

Anyway, about using a Walther P22, I've not actually heard much about them at all except a few threads here about how fun they were. Costwise, I concur with the many others here about getting a different gun for home defense.

 

You could pick up a cheap shotgun and that'd be supremely more effective than a 22lr pistol. I don't know if there is an option other than killing someone with a 22lr if you had to use it for home defense. I've heard too many stories (some from LEOs) about BGs taking shots from 22lr and keep on attacking. Were it me, I'd take advantage of the low recoil and accuracy of a 22lr pistol and put two rounds to the head at first shot. Body shots (aside from a heart shot) would probably just piss him/her off even if the BG were going to bleed to death. After you put 10 rounds in'em, they'll make you suffer till they die, or take you with them.

 

If you absolutely must use a pistol for home defense, I'd recommend a DA/SA wheel gun like one of the other members here had posted. Despite the fact I'm a huge advocate of an autoloader, there's nothing more dependable than a wheel gun. My wife swears by one for home defense. Lol, it still makes me giddy when I see my 5'3" 120lb wife at the range with her Taurus .357 mag in a 6" barrel. Yes, it's a Taurus (so many people have complained about it not being a Colt or S&W) but hell, it works and even if she misses, the BG would be fleeing for his life from just the sound of the first shot. She shoots in the black out to 20 ft or so... in our house, unless he's way down the other end of the only hallway in the house, she's dead accurate. That's loaded with Hydrashock .357mags. It works for well for her. As for me, I swear by my 1911A1. I don't know of anyone that'll take a couple Hydrashok .45ACPs and keep on coming. If they do, they'll meet with the rest of those two's magazine mates.

 

Anyway, that's all. I'm out.

[klangblades 0]

I once read that more people in civilian confrontations are killed with .22's than any other round. If thats true it's only because it is the most comman caliber for people to have in their houses. It will kill but certainly shouldn't be the round of CHOICE for defense. The shotgun is hard to beat, and the intimidation factor is tremendous. Sliderack or not, nobody likes to look down that big bore. That is provided there is enough light to see it. That is why I got rid of the .357 that used to stay beneath my matress. I had to use one night, on a porcupine who had decided my doorframes were some kind of treat, and the muzzelflash out of a 5" barrel was blinding. Since most confrontations do happen in reduced light, I decided a one shot attempt at defending myself was not what i wanted. I recommend shooting your home defense gun in the dark a few times and seeing if you can still see with whatever loads you use.