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.223 Accuracy woes...


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yes I have seen the video, Many times. And while the rear sight "jumping" is cool and all (simple vibration causing a moving part to....move), the receiver and rear barrel (anywhere near where a scope is mounted) still WILL NOT JUMP/MOVE/WHIP/ECT. anywhere near .050. Videos are fun to watch but alot of it is unmeasurable optical illusion and a video has no scale so measurements are impossible. What looks like "holy shit" is actually ALOT less, more like "that's neet". Look at the slow motion videos of ejected shells and the "holy shit" flaming gas coming from the chamber/spent cartridge. You would think it was extremely dangerous, but in reality it is minuscule and many shooters don't even wear eye protection (the foolish ones yes).

Edited by Pointer55
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GIJeff, out of all the people you DON'T want to tell that barrel whip doesn't exist or doesn't effect accuracy, it's Darth AKSarben. He's got the results with his Saiga .223 to prove that ammunition and barrel whip DO have an extreme effect on accuracy. I doubt you have ever seen a Saiga do under and inch at 100 yards, well AK DarthSarben has, his handloading and work on his Saiga .223 reduced the very resonance you doubt exist/affects accuracy. It's just physics dude. Vibrations caused from the exploding powder will resonate throughout the rifle, including the barrel. The reason it doesn't break is because it is capable of bending. A more brittle material, like iron, would crack eventually.

 

A fourth-thousandth of a movement at muzzle will turn into inches at 100 yards. Think of a shotgun blast.

 

In fact, even a pencil will bend a little. Take one in your hand right now and bend it just a little. It won't crack. It will return to normal as soon as the pressure is released. The same applies to rifle barrels. The video your referring to is real, it's not Hollywood movie magic. The barrel isn't just moving up and down, it looks like that because that is our primary angle in which we are viewing it.

 

Sorry GIJeff, but your logic and pseudo-physics are flawed.

 

EDIT: If barrel vibration wasn't an issue/didn't happen, then how come using barrel struts on 180-series Mini-14's IMPROVE accuracy? The sole reason they use them is to reduce vibration, they do nothing for sights. Yet, adding a barrel strut to a Mini-14 180 can turn it from a 6 inch at 100 yards gun to 2-3 inch. On the 580 series of Mini-14 released in '05 they used a thicker barrel, which also improve accuracy. Specifically, Ruger stated that the thicker barrel reduces vibration, or "whip", and therefor improves accuracy.

 

So even the companies that build rifles believe it exists and affects accuracy. I'm sorry, but physics, rifle-makers world-wide, and the results these give all completely disagree with what you believe. You don't have anything other than speculation, where as Darth AKSarben and everyone else has science and common sense.

Edited by Paladin_Hammer
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I don't think anyone is saying that barrel whip does not exist, as everyone knows it does. I know it does, I am just saying it is not as pronounced as the video would have you believe and certainly would not cause any flex-up or whip-up to bang a scope that has .050 clearance as the OP claimed.

Edited by Pointer55
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Heya Peeps,

 

I don't think anyone is saying that barrel whip does not exist, as everyone knows it does. I know it does, I am just saying it is not as pronounced as the video would have you believe and certainly would not cause any flex-up or whip-up to bang a scope that has .050 clearance as the OP claimed.

 

Yeah, what HE said. ^_^ Obviously the previous poster didn't understand my intentions or logic. I suspect possibly deliberately. Of course barrel whip exists, but seeing it with the naked eye......highly doubtful. Holywood magic?.....no just optical illusion. I never suggested that someone had doctored the tape, just that the barrel cannot be moving as much as it appears to in the video so some element of that must be optical illusion.

 

As to the barrel strut stuff, I do find it interesting that companies are doing the exact opposite now of what was and is conventional wisdom from ages past. Ask any old school shooter and they will tell you DO NOT touch the barrel. It's interesting that now they are finding or testing theories that the exact opposite may in some cases be true. I'll have to check into that stuff, it's very interesting, and though it flies in the face of all conventional wisdom, I don't dispute it may have some merit.

 

Jeff Waite

aka GIJeff

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I think the OP has got a dud .223. Mine shoots surprisingly well. If I'm reeeallly careful (and dump the first round into the backstop instead of the target) I can get 2.5" groups at 100 yards...with iron sights...and unconverted trigger...using Wolf ammo.

 

Recrowning the barrel is probably a good place to start and should be easy for a smith.

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