confusion at the range

[jimdigriz 580]

When I told the weapon inspection guy that I was planning on converting my Saiga to a pistol grip configuration, he said I wouldn't be able to shoot my gun there anymore if I did that. Later, I figured out that he must've thought I was going to a stock-less configuration, but meanwhile I was asking some other of the range monitors about what he said. They all looked at me like I was crazy, warning me that "if the BATF catches you with something like that...", shaking their heads in disgust and ignoring what I said about parts counts and compliance. What a clueless and misinformed bunch. To prevent problems with such, should I seek an advisory letter from the BATF weenies about my planned configuration? What do you guys think?

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Did they maybe confuse the word "convert" with converting it to FA or something? What exactly did they say would make it no-go at their range, after a PG conversion?

 

Surely they allow AR's and other pistol gripped semi's, right? If so, there's no difference.

 

I'd try to educate them again, and if doesn't work........if it's possible, find a new place to shoot. They sound too stupid for their own good.

[nalioth 405]

They sound too stupid for their own good.

 

+1

 

 

 

You don't need a "letter". It's quite legal, so long as you keep 922r in mind.

[DLT 1,646]

They probably thought you meant a full auto conversion which is illegal. You may be on to a possible point of interest. Maybe we should refer to the intended rifle modifications as "upgrades" instead of "conversions" when dealing with the uneducated public. That way they don't get confused. If they ask what you mean by "upgrade", then you tell them that you plan to switch out furniture, just like you do on an AR. Keep it simple and the simple minds won't get confused.

[mstranglr 9]

The "Fudds" at some of the ranges are just as ignorant as the "fudds" that own many of the gun stores. Most of these fools get their information from ignorant law enforcement that they know.

 

I would stop shooting there. Those are the types of idiots who would call the cops to report an "illegal" gun. The cop he calls, you know - the one that thinks AKs are illegal, will waste more of your time and patience than what its worth. I avoid folks like that, from experience.

[jimdigriz 580]

What puzzled me about the whole situation was that I have seen plenty of people there shooting ARs and similar weapons, and at least one AK74. Probably they were confused, as someone said above, maybe thinking I was planning to convert to full auto. After all, it was a little loud when we were carrying on the conversation. But their attitude was dismaying. I'll continue shooting there for now; after all, it's close to my house, and I paid $101 for a year's membership to shoot whenever and for however long I want.

[stix213 3]

When I told the weapon inspection guy that I was planning on converting my Saiga to a pistol grip configuration, he said I wouldn't be able to shoot my gun there anymore if I did that. Later, I figured out that he must've thought I was going to a stock-less configuration, but meanwhile I was asking some other of the range monitors about what he said. They all looked at me like I was crazy, warning me that "if the BATF catches you with something like that...", shaking their heads in disgust and ignoring what I said about parts counts and compliance. What a clueless and misinformed bunch. To prevent problems with such, should I seek an advisory letter from the BATF weenies about my planned configuration? What do you guys think?

 

My guess is what you figured, that they thought you meant going to a stockless setup. May I ask why when they started giving you warnings about the BATF that you didn't follow up with a "why???" I'm sure they would have said "Cause... blah blah fud fud" and you would know where they are coming from instead of guessing.

 

I say just make sure your rifle is completely legal and bring it on down there. Range guys aren't going to count parts for 922r, they will just care about minimum length and any state specific restrictions, etc. This might be a chance to educate them as well.

 

Although if you want to be 100% sure that you won't have ANY issues (even being talked to about it) then just don't go there, and you could send them a letter or e-mail explaining why their FUD spreading employees just lost them your business, and as many other people's business as you can talk to.

Edited August 11, 2009 by stix213

[fxhart 14]

I really don't say "I'm converting my Saiga", I just say "I'm adding a pistol grip" and leave it at that.

[Azrial 1,090]

Really, the correct word is, "restore."

[HarvKY 72]

or:

 

" ....changing it back to the original pistol grip design"

 

HarvKY

[Vultite 57]

hahahaha, I'm guess there was a gross mis-understanding of words or terminology, or you need to find yourself another range. these kinda guys sounds like the ones who just about called the cops when my buddy produced a silencer and a trust, and they all looked at each other and scratched their heads "Where's your class III liscense!?!? THIS IS HIGHLY ILLEGAL!!" Hahaha

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

These are idiots in action. If you have another place go there, if not ask them what they are talking about and then go from there. After talking to them if they still dont get it contact the owner and tell him they are harassing you, works well most times. Dont show them the rifle until this is settled. The reason is if they are complete tools and call BARF sorry BATF nothing will likely happen if they havent seen the rifle. You really dont want that pita. Remember last week they were flipping burgers most likely.

[paprotective 362]

I agree to say ' just adding a PG' like your AR's, and theres a hole already drilled for it from the factory....

 

Bring them a PIC of it but not the rifle and use the above line.. That may clarify for them..

 

In some places AK looking 'things' are taboo things.. Like Philly and NJ at the moment.

 

If I travel into NJ I better be 100% USC title 18 ready for transport.. They tend to TAKE or SHOOT first when they see these RESTORED AK's.... IMHO.

[jimdigriz 580]

These are idiots in action. If you have another place go there, if not ask them what they are talking about and then go from there. After talking to them if they still dont get it contact the owner and tell him they are harassing you, works well most times.

 

It's a range run by the state of Tennessee, a "Hunter Education Center". In keeping with that motif, they don't even allow silhouette targets.

 

I asked who would be the person to pronounce definitely on my queries about what is allowed there, and they told me to go talk to the main range officer. I will certainly do that before I appear there with the converted gun.

 

Jim

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

These are idiots in action. If you have another place go there, if not ask them what they are talking about and then go from there. After talking to them if they still dont get it contact the owner and tell him they are harassing you, works well most times.

 

It's a range run by the state of Tennessee, a "Hunter Education Center". In keeping with that motif, they don't even allow silhouette targets.

 

I asked who would be the person to pronounce definitely on my queries about what is allowed there, and they told me to go talk to the main range officer. I will certainly do that before I appear there with the converted gun.

 

Jim

 

That is odd, then they would have to shown you exactly what regulation they are using to take that position. Tenn has more of an sane attitude than most states so I cannot see the problem. If they pull the safety card, that's used because its so vague, you can always get a letter from a gunsmith saying the rifle has no apparent safety issues that would put the monkey on them. This is just so weird it must be a misunderstanding or a loose cannon mouthing off.

 

There are ranges here run by the state and almost nothing short of FA or bump firing even raises an eyebrow.

[jimdigriz 580]

These are idiots in action. If you have another place go there, if not ask them what they are talking about and then go from there. After talking to them if they still dont get it contact the owner and tell him they are harassing you, works well most times.

 

It's a range run by the state of Tennessee, a "Hunter Education Center". In keeping with that motif, they don't even allow silhouette targets.

 

I asked who would be the person to pronounce definitely on my queries about what is allowed there, and they told me to go talk to the main range officer. I will certainly do that before I appear there with the converted gun.

 

Jim

 

That is odd, then they would have to shown you exactly what regulation they are using to take that position. Tenn has more of an sane attitude than most states so I cannot see the problem. If they pull the safety card, that's used because its so vague, you can always get a letter from a gunsmith saying the rifle has no apparent safety issues that would put the monkey on them. This is just so weird it must be a misunderstanding or a loose cannon mouthing off.

 

There are ranges here run by the state and almost nothing short of FA or bump firing even raises an eyebrow.

 

They allow full auto at this range, for those who have the permit.

 

I think this incident was a case of ignorance plus misunderstanding, and can be satisfactorily resolved. At least, I hope so, because it's a convenient place for me to do my shooting.

[Shellshock1918 1]

When I told the weapon inspection guy that I was planning on converting my Saiga to a pistol grip configuration, he said I wouldn't be able to shoot my gun there anymore if I did that. Later, I figured out that he must've thought I was going to a stock-less configuration, but meanwhile I was asking some other of the range monitors about what he said. They all looked at me like I was crazy, warning me that "if the BATF catches you with something like that...", shaking their heads in disgust and ignoring what I said about parts counts and compliance. What a clueless and misinformed bunch. To prevent problems with such, should I seek an advisory letter from the BATF weenies about my planned configuration? What do you guys think?

 

I have never liked RSO or "Range monitors".

[HarvKY 72]

[

 

I have never liked RSO or "Range monitors".

 

 

 

 

Perhaps some places feel that babysitters are needed

 

Thats kinda the nanny state that our country is turning into.

 

Harv

[Paladin 37]

I follow a don't ask, don't tell policy. I make sure my gun is legal and don't try to explain anything to people who just don't know or understand.

 

If they allow full auto, then they sure don't need anything from you concerning your weapon which does not require any documentation.

 

Again, don't try to explain anything. They may, just out of ignorance and wanting to cover their ass, say you can't shoot it there.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

I follow a don't ask, don't tell policy. I make sure my gun is legal and don't try to explain anything to people who just don't know or understand.

 

If they allow full auto, then they sure don't need anything from you concerning your weapon which does not require any documentation.

 

Again, don't try to explain anything. They may, just out of ignorance and wanting to cover their ass, say you can't shoot it there.

 

This is good advise but he was only talking to the guy working there in a friendly discussion (lesson here). I still say its a loose cannon.

[lakedweller 10]

Even the people at the state (Michigan) run range I go to don't even blink when I get my two restored Saigas out.

[spraypaint 1]

my range i go to ( in WA state) i go there n shoot my "converted" saiga with no problems. I think as long as you aint shooting fully auto, they don't really care. To them its' just another rifle. they havent said anything to me but then again, maybe they are unaware of the compliance laws. shit, I went to one gun shop n they had a stock saiga12 on display with a 12 round clip in it!! n i kno that aint legal!! but back to the range issues, i just go in, pull my x39 out like nobody's business n do my thing. then if they happen to ask, I'll have no prob. showing my usa made parts (n receipts, i keep them handy). i dont tell them what im shootin til they ask...

[krusader 1]

Thats why I don't go to ranges, I go to open land public most of the time, no morons or anti's there.

[Twinsen 86]

1. Laugh.

2. Pull down pants.

3. Shit on ground.

4. Pick up shit with glove.

5. Open their mouth.

6...

[jimdigriz 580]

Thats why I don't go to ranges, I go to open land public most of the time, no morons or anti's there.

 

Hmmm...interesting idea. I've been wanting to go somewhere like that, but didn't really know where I could go. And I don't really have any friends with a lot of land. Are you talking about land open for hunting and that sort of stuff?

[n102788 6]

Thats why I don't go to ranges, I go to open land public most of the time, no morons or anti's there.

 

Hmmm...interesting idea. I've been wanting to go somewhere like that, but didn't really know where I could go. And I don't really have any friends with a lot of land. Are you talking about land open for hunting and that sort of stuff?

 

i go to a range like krusader does, if i understand correctly like my range its a street and there a a few spots where you can pull over and there is a dirt mound. theres one 30 yrds, 60 yds 86 yds, 112 yds and 200 something yds. and each of those mounds have there own lane so you pick what distance drive to it and pull over. At this land you CAN NOT hunt it is just for target and clay shooting. best part its FREE

[jimdigriz 580]

Thats why I don't go to ranges, I go to open land public most of the time, no morons or anti's there.

 

Hmmm...interesting idea. I've been wanting to go somewhere like that, but didn't really know where I could go. And I don't really have any friends with a lot of land. Are you talking about land open for hunting and that sort of stuff?

 

i go to a range like krusader does, if i understand correctly like my range its a street and there a a few spots where you can pull over and there is a dirt mound. theres one 30 yrds, 60 yds 86 yds, 112 yds and 200 something yds. and each of those mounds have there own lane so you pick what distance drive to it and pull over. At this land you CAN NOT hunt it is just for target and clay shooting. best part its FREE

 

How can you find such places? I live in TN, so I'm guessing they're plentiful.

 

Jim

[stix213 3]

Thats why I don't go to ranges, I go to open land public most of the time, no morons or anti's there.

 

Hmmm...interesting idea. I've been wanting to go somewhere like that, but didn't really know where I could go. And I don't really have any friends with a lot of land. Are you talking about land open for hunting and that sort of stuff?

 

 

Its even easy in California to find such places, so it must be easy where you are. National forests are the easiest places for me, check if one is near you. Their website should list any firearm rules they might have besides the usual "don't shoot within 150 yards of a camp ground, don't shoot at the trees on purpose, don't shoot at glass, etc"

[1mile50 102]

Thats why I don't go to ranges, I go to open land public most of the time, no morons or anti's there.

 

Hmmm...interesting idea. I've been wanting to go somewhere like that, but didn't really know where I could go. And I don't really have any friends with a lot of land. Are you talking about land open for hunting and that sort of stuff?

 

 

Its even easy in California to find such places, so it must be easy where you are. National forests are the easiest places for me, check if one is near you. Their website should list any firearm rules they might have besides the usual "don't shoot within 150 yards of a camp ground, don't shoot at the trees on purpose, don't shoot at glass, etc"

 

 

Not in central FL. Unless you have permission/access to a large tract of land, it is very hard to just stroll out there and find somewhere to shoot. Some of the WMAs have ranges where you can shoot, but they are unsupervised and idiots go to those, too. Luckily, the Club I belong to and RO at on occasion, Manatee, is very pro gun. They have a machine gun range, a shotgun range, a 1000 yard range, and all legal firearms, up to and including 20mm, are accepted.

 

A few idiots do abound, but we try to keep them on a short leash.

Edited August 15, 2009 by 1mile50

[BuzzKillin 21]

Thats why I don't go to ranges, I go to open land public most of the time, no morons or anti's there.

 

Hmmm...interesting idea. I've been wanting to go somewhere like that, but didn't really know where I could go. And I don't really have any friends with a lot of land. Are you talking about land open for hunting and that sort of stuff?

 

 

Its even easy in California to find such places, so it must be easy where you are. National forests are the easiest places for me, check if one is near you. Their website should list any firearm rules they might have besides the usual "don't shoot within 150 yards of a camp ground, don't shoot at the trees on purpose, don't shoot at glass, etc"

 

I live in Ca. and have NOT found it easy to find such places.. any tips?