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Saiga 12's are only toys, not for serious use.


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+1. Now I know for sure you are not kidding!!!

The main thing you have to worry about is meeting the 5 requirements for accorite predictive fire. And in your case avoiding "Load Lay Elevation Error."

Saiga 12 ignorance might be a good thing. It keeps the price down and off the DD list. If people knew what I kown about these, they would cost more than Benellis and be DD. Let them think that they ar

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Well, it looks as though there are a few contributors to that thread who have their heads out of their asses, but they're in the minority.

 

Most of the S-12 hate present in that thread is due to pure, pitiable ignorance imo. A lot of the people over at Glocktalk apparently have no idea what kind of weapon you can convert restore a stock "sporter" S-12 into. That really is unfortunate. They don't know what they're missing out on.

Edited by post-apocalyptic
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well after the ten round mag you should go to the drum,i like the glock , and if it werent for this forum i would have sold my 12 to the first buyer,Clint Eastwood said a man must know his limitations you people have none ,thank you.

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Obviously no one asked me or GeorgiaPD......

 

Will.... :super::super:

I love my Glocks and I am very proficient with them, but I still consider them tools for fighting my way back to a bigger weapons platform..To Wit: S12

 

Juggs,

 

That video link that you posted has a Saiga that I have never seen before. At the end of the video with the last shooter, he is running what appears to be a left handed version. I did not know that they made such a beast

Edited by GeorgiaPD
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I like the guy claiming the mags are junk...hilarious!

you mean this guy

"The Saiga is a range toy, with cheaply made magazines (if you want the TACTICOOL ones), absolute crap stock and trigger system (unconverted) and like I said before a range toy. Oh yeah you bump the magazine on everything. Did I mention it was made of cheap plastic and tends to bow out if left loaded and not in a weapon."

 

Yeah after I read that I had to run to my safe and make shure my 8 rd izzys did not explode on me or fall apart along with my 10rd agp,s im so glad I dont keep them loaded if I did i might open the safe and have shells every where. cause of the cheap plastic where to bow out and posably tear threw the mag like a knife threw paper LOL what a fking joke these people are it cracks me up wonder how his plastic glock stays togather under thouse same conditions of cheap plastic ? also I own a glock and an xd45 ohh thouse plastic wepons.

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well after the ten round mag you should go to the drum,i like the glock , and if it werent for this forum i would have sold my 12 to the first buyer,Clint Eastwood said a man must know his limitations you people have none ,thank you.

 

I'm not sure about that... I rather like my Surefire 12, (13), round mags. They've never failed me. As for Glocks; my preferred .45 ACP is a Glock 30SF. It's not some kind of competition.. Glocks and Saigas go well together. They're completely different firearms. Carry a Glock to backup your Saiga is what I say! :D

 

However.. since I've gotten my S-12 where I want it, I don't even own a pump-gun anymore.

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Ah, another thread on GlockTalk filled with a bunch of ignorant troll posts bashing the Saiga 12, what a surprise. Well, since making ignorant troll posts over there apparently isn't a problem, maybe I'll register there and start a thread titled: "A Glock??!! Only mall ninjas and gay austrian strudel chefs carry Glocks, so which one are you?!".

Edited by Frogfoot
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Ah, another thread on GlockTalk filled with a bunch of ignorant troll posts bashing the Saiga 12, what a surprise. Well, since making ignorant troll posts over there apparently isn't a problem, maybe I'll register there and start a thread titled: "A Glock??!! Only mall ninjas and gay austrian strudel chefs carry Glocks, so which one are you?!".

:lolol:

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I have heard almost all the same crap that is in that thread before.I guess I must be some guy with a magical touch because both of my Saigas and another member here who has two(hobbyshooter),that I shoot with, have had no issues with these guns that aren't normal for any auto shotgun(certain ammo feeds better than others etc).There are some guys locally that do multi-gun shoots that swear Saigas are piles of crap.However,they have personally watched me run 300+ rounds through mine with no issues.....

 

With that aside the post that made me laugh the most was;

 

"I'd never want a shotgun for CQB for any reason except door breaching anyway. But I'll keep my 870, thanx..."

 

I will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume maybe he is on SWAT with his local PD.However,there must be a bunch of guys on the net that are on SWAT since there is this huge fascination with door breaching.I guess I must be out of the loop because,as a civilian,I have never had the opportunity to breach a door with any of my shotguns. :rolleyes:

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I thought it was interesting in the Deadliest Warrior: Spetsnaz vs Green Beret, the Russians held their gun sideways when they went anywhere near prone, even with the 5 round clip. I always just figured that western training focusses more on the distance marksmanship shot while eastern training focusses more on movement. If you're shooting with the gun sideways, the clip size doesn't matter.

 

I've wandered over to Glock talk, thinking about getting a 10mm Glock, but had a hard time finding out anything useful.

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"I, personally, know alot of Russians and it's like these guys that I know were bred to think that they're bad-asses but have nothing to back it up. This one guy is a pencil neck computer programmer, 160 pounds soaking wet. He flat out told me that he would thrash me if we ever got into a fight. I'm around 200 lbs and work out 3 days a week. He came over here from Russia when he was 17. They say things with such authority, they start to believe it themselves."

 

If that guy went through the Russian public education system, he might be right. Holly shit! Talk about the survival of the fittest! I got into my first fist fight on my first day of school, when I was 7. It just continued from there on. I would come home covered in bruises all the time. A lot of the kids were taking martial arts classes. I was talking Wu-Shoo for a few years. Got into fights with karate and judo kids. Any way, this was a pretty common way to grow up in Russia, so I wouldn't be surprised if the geek can dish out some damage, even though he might not look like it. Most of my American buddies have very little fighting experience.

Edited by SpetsnazGRU
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Cool and all... but what does that have to do with the Saiga being called a "toy" and not for serious use???

+1. We need to stay on topic.

 

What are ya tryin' to say!! LOL!!! (See post 45)

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Just change their words around--- swap "Glock" with "Saiga", etc, and read some of their posts:

 

I love my Glock but only as a toy. Theres nothing quite like dumping 17 9mm rounds in a couple of seconds. However I have not and will not trust it as a "go to" gun. My G.I. 1911 will do just fine.

 

Mine is a safe queen. I got it for the wow factor a few years ago... really? who needs a polymer framed, double action only pistol? I like my cheapo Hi-Point better.

 

The Glock is a range toy. High capacity in a pistol is overrated in the real world, especially with single stack .45's holding 7+1 rounds on tap.

 

I looked at a Glock today. The grip is freakin' huge. It looks a little clumsy to me.

 

I had a Glock I was not impressed at all.

 

The Sigs I've shot are better semi-auto pistols.

 

The Glock is a range toy, with cheaply made plastic sights, absolute crap grip and trigger system and like I said before a range toy. Oh yeah you bump the grip is huge and angled strangely. Did I mention it was made of cheap plastic?

 

Yeah police use them, but as previously stated they aren't known for valuing practicality or even success (lol we buy from the lowest bidder, carry often and fire rarely, lol).

 

I traded it to a friend who thought it was the coolest evilest gun ever (like I unfortunately did when I bought it) hes looking at trading it off right now for... a CZ-75.

 

Haterade, now available in Glock Kool Aid flavor!

Haterade.gif

 

 

EDIT: in all seriousness though, I like Glocks just fine.

Edited by aresv
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Cool and all... but what does that have to do with the Saiga being called a "toy" and not for serious use???

+1. We need to stay on topic.

 

What are ya tryin' to say!! LOL!!! (See post 45)

I spoke above my pay grade. :unsure:

 

I was just kiddin' around... stating I'm as guilty as anyone else of going off topic...

Hey... I need to be put in check when I'm wrong too!!!!

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I own a Saiga 12 that has been pretty darned reliable, and I enjoy shooting it as much as anyone else here. However, I'm gonna buck the trend and agree that the Sagia 12, as typically embodied in the US, is more of a range toy than a serious defensive/offensive weapon. Like any gun, it can be used as a weapon, but the US conversion with US-made mags is too fragile IMHO. I've seen a lot of them run at 3-gun matches, and seen the vast majority of them fail under match conditions. Anyone who shoots 3-gun knows that equipment that has run reliably in practice for months can fail big time when the timer is running. No disrespect intended, but I suspect a lot of Saiga 12 owners do not stress their guns to this extent. I also suspect there is a good deal of "selective memory" about how reliable people's guns really are :P .

 

I also have grave concerns about stacking plastic shotshells horizontally in a box magazine. I have seen them distort and cause feeding problems, and I would expect this to be particularly problematic during long-term storage in a hot climate (e.g. in the home or in a vehicle trunk - I live in AZ B) ).

 

One other point is versaltility (the real strength of a shotgun). Tube guns offer a lot more flexibility on the fly (select slug etc.) than a box mag gun. This is not to be underestimated.

 

Now, a Russian factory gun in original PG form, running Russian mags and metal cased shotshells, may be a different story (albeit still inflexible on ammo). My experience is all with US-converted guns/mags/ammo, and I would not bet my life on one.

Edited by StealthyBlagga
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Cool and all... but what does that have to do with the Saiga being called a "toy" and not for serious use???

+1. We need to stay on topic.

 

What are ya tryin' to say!! LOL!!! (See post 45)

I spoke above my pay grade. :unsure:

 

I was just kiddin' around... stating I'm as guilty as anyone else of going off topic...

Hey... I need to be put in check when I'm wrong too!!!!

Sometimes, it doesn't sound like you are kidding. I just can't take any chances. :eek::unsure:

Edited by Crusader
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Stealthy, if you are seeing the "vast majority" of saigas fail under match conditions, I'd love to know the where and when of these matches to verify that.

 

The s-12 fragile? Wow man...I don't even know where to begin on that. I would be interested to know exactly what part of that gun is fragile...because I haven't found it. I've had mine a little over a year with the round count creeping up to 1k. My total fte's=2...when I had the gas setting wrong. A lot of the ammo used were Remington Target Loads and the HD OO, OOO, and slugs for function/reliability tests. I also avoided ammo that people had reported problems with in the forums.

 

Also, I'm sure the 3-gun shooters on this forum who stress their s-12's more in 1 year than I probably will in the lifetime of my gun will be chiming in. I believe some of them may have even won a match or two.

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Stealthy, if you are seeing the "vast majority" of saigas fail under match conditions, I'd love to know the where and when of these matches to verify that.

 

The s-12 fragile? Wow man...I don't even know where to begin on that. I would be interested to know exactly what part of that gun is fragile...because I haven't found it. I've had mine a little over a year with the round count creeping up to 1k. My total fte's=2...when I had the gas setting wrong. A lot of the ammo used were Remington Target Loads and the HD OO, OOO, and slugs for function/reliability tests. I also avoided ammo that people had reported problems with in the forums.

 

Also, I'm sure the 3-gun shooters on this forum who stress their s-12's more in 1 year than I probably will in the lifetime of my gun will be chiming in. I believe some of them may have even won a match or two.

The only part is the mag and those can be re-enforced and strengthened. I JB welded my AGP mags together and wrapped them in ACU McNett tape. Those mags will not break!!!!! Also, I have never heard of a surefire 8rd mag failing.

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