UTG quad rail?

[cvhanh20 1,052]

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Do you honestly think that a 100 US rail on a 500 dollar Russian, Romanian, Bulgarian gun makes any real difference in the outcome of where the money goes?

Your same argument could be made for the US importer, but there are russian companies making a buck true. Still a american company simply put puts more money where it belongs.

 

We have all chosen to buy this weapon for any of a number of reasons...

 

But simply put, everything i've done to upgrade it has been made in the USA, and I myself doing the work... well...

 

When does ore stop being the product and finished metal begins? I started with one thing, but what i have is so much more...

 

Why not support your local economy a little more?

[KROSS FA 14]

Wow, this thread is still going on huh. Listen, there are several quality US accessory manufacturers that support this economy/country as well as this forum. With U.S. products you're going to get affordable and higher quality items from people who stand behind their products and care about their customers. Furthermore, you're doing business with people who actually care about this country as opposed to someone just interested in taking your hard earned money and running. Every single one of us manufacturers on this forum could have outsourced our products overseas and pocketed the extra revenue, but we didn't. We made a choice to support US businesses, and chose highest quality and value to the consumer over highest potential profit for ourselves.

 

Honestly, I think the choice is pretty easy but it's a choice each one of you will have to make.

 

 

Zach

KROSS F.A.

[Boba Debt 350]

I think that the majority of the people the choice comes down to 3 things when comparing multiple like items.

 

 

 

1 Availability

 

2 Price

 

3 Style or the "Look"

 

 

 

You have a few people that are committed to a single aspect but for the most part consumers are pretty predictable.

 

 

 

There is a vicious hatred for UTG on this forum which I don't quite get, especially since the forum owner is a UTG dealer.

 

We are all entitled to our opinions but at least be honest about why you hate the product you're claiming to hate.

 

I bet half of the UTG haters have never even seen one of their products in person.

 

EVERYTHING I have received from Leapers (UTG) has been of the highest quality.

 

Their soft cases are awesome and the few metal items I ordered seem to be worth the retail asking price.

 

I'm not a full time UTG dealer and I have no intention of becoming one and the really ironic part of this post is that I am probably going to use a Chaos Rail on my S-12 Bull Pup

[Azrial 1,091]

"There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price alone are that man's lawful prey."

[avatar 4]

Buy whatever you like. In general the more you pay the better you get. The Question is when is good enough, enough? Sure the US products are better than the UTG stuff -- better alloy and look better which obviously makes 'em better, but the UTG stuff can take reasonable abuse that most guns will see. Catastrophic events will wipe out the higher quality as well as the Utter Total Garbage stuff. Arguing on the Interweb and all that... is a waste of time (but its fun with a cold brewski in hand)

 

I agree with supporting the local economy, but remember the Chicoms, besides poisoning our kids with contaminated toys, have been bailing us out for at least twenty years or more helping us float our debt. So sending them some cash supports our macro economy in some freakin' sick twisted way. So do as you please.

[vitamink 90]

Boba,

 

I've used utg products and most have sucked in a major way. When i first got my saiga i purchased the utg swatforce flashlight as it was like 270 lumens and only 60$ compared to a surefire that was 3 times as much. When i got it the first thing i noticed is that it was super heavy (just like their rails, stocks, etc). I was able to put about 1 mag through it before it broke. Now i have a 60$ paper weight. I've had a surefire forend on my 870 that i've had for the last 7 years and i have to put 500 rounds a year through it so doing the math, approximately 3500+ rounds later and it's still ticking. I should have gone with my instinct and purchased a surefire instead. buy crap buy twice. I have a utg bag that i purchased a while ago.. it's not great, the edges are stitched poorly (probably by an 8 year old ) but it does serve it's purpose however it's just a bag. i'm not gonna trust my life to a utg product. If your gun is just a range toy that you don't plan on using for anything but target practice or shooting clays then fine, put products on your gun that is made by a toy manufacturer overseas. If you are in the military, a cop, or a citizen that has had the misfortune of getting into a fire fight then you know the importance of having the advantage over your opponent. If you've ever had a critical part fail on your weapon while in the fight then you know the "im dead" feeling you get and you never want that feeling again. I won't put anything utg on my gun for that reason.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

EVERYTHING I have received from Leapers (UTG) has been of the highest quality.

 

Compared to what?

 

I'm genuinely interested in the items from UTG that you have, that are of the "highest quality", when compared to another brand. Give some examples, if you don't mind.

 

(Yes, I've handled a UTG AK rail, and I was not impressed. I wrote about it in another thread.)

[cvhanh20 1,052]

[camon 233]

Cheap, overrated, heavy, chinese-airsoft shit is cheap, overrated, heavy, chinese-airsoft shit.

 

My friend had one of these mounted to his AR-15 and its soo goddamn heavy.

Edited September 28, 2009 by camon

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

[Boba Debt 350]

I own 3 of their 32" homeland security cases and 6 of their pistol cases. I have sold a lot of these cases in various sizes to my friends at work. Everyone loves them and they seem to made a lot better then most of the available case of a similar design. However, I don't know of any USA company that makes soft cases for guns to compare them to.

 

I have handle there AR-15 Carry handle. It is comparable to just about every other handle I have examined.

 

A friend of mine has the free floating quad rail on his AR-15 and swears by it. I have handled many of the picitinny accessories and they all seem to be made just as good as the other companies that make them.

 

I have not handle any of their optics, lights or lasers but my boss at work has several of their products and loves them.

 

I'm not here to tell you UTG is better then or just as good as an American made product.

 

I'm just saying that most of the people that hate UTG hate them because they are UTG.

 

 

 

 

 

 

EVERYTHING I have received from Leapers (UTG) has been of the highest quality.

 

Compared to what?

 

I'm genuinely interested in the items from UTG that you have, that are of the "highest quality", when compared to another brand. Give some examples, if you don't mind.

 

(Yes, I've handled a UTG AK rail, and I was not impressed. I wrote about it in another thread.)

[lifegard 2]

[camon 233]

Oh and BTW the Israeli's FAB are also making a similair design as the UTG for AKs and ARs and its really a lot better than UTG's you should check them out, after all they have one of the best fighting forces in the world and that design works for them.

 

[cvhanh20 1,052]

I wanted to reply to this in detail earlier but just didn’t have the time, you know with making parts and all. I love your use of free speech in this thread even when all your facts are total bullshit! Try using free speech in your homeland. I couldn’t help but notice how touchy you got about your nickname “Lifegard” being misspelled; it’s funny that even you get a little testy with inefficiencies. Riding on the coattails, you’re a fucking idiot! There is nothing riding or following about Chaos. I developed the lightest and strongest and most diversified rail system for this weapon on the market. Your precious UTG, comes from a country that prides itself on copycat tactics, so your statement is a real joke! Have I ever seen one? Yes and they look like total ass, not to mention they’re flimsy and weak and you know it. You don’t need a slow motion camera to see that POS bouncing around. I love how you brag about how UTG pays more taxes here than us smaller American companies, you traitor POS, have they bled and suffered for this country, were they born to this soil or earned the right to be here? With you tools it’s always about the dollar, you’re a fucking sale out, and even worse, you come in here boasting about it. I’m amazed more people on this forum haven’t lit your ass up, so I’ll step up to bat. You are a FANBOY and total China loving ass kisser, it’s people like you that would hand your enemy your last bullet to shoot your comrade if you thought it would save your own ass! And don’t start with the race card shit, you fuck, not here! You are nothing more than a UTG rep. coming in here trying to rattle my cage and get more attention for that POS rail. “Just pointing out the false reasoning going on here.” Really, isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black.

 

A little testy aren't you?

It never seems to make me shake my head when someone who has really nothing to say that is logical starts cursing and calling people names in a kneejerk reaction because someone pushed his buttons.

You are totally wrong about a lot of shit-and you don't even know me. All you know is what you think your warped logic is telling you about someone who wrote a few lines that you happen to disagree with. And from somebody who didn't even put down your products.

I am probably at least 20 years older than you and as far as you know I may or may not have been one of those people getting shot defending this country so that you and I and our kids can have our opinions.

The difference is I use logic and you use emotion and spew hate.

Glad I am not your neighbor.

 

Oh and the only Chinese ass that I kissed was a drop dead gorgeous woman while in Hong Kong, and some Japanese women as well and next month God and the Air Force willing, some in Amsterdam along with my wife of 16 years.

 

Beyond that "Go merrily down the road your on and see where it gets you." With that attitude and short fuse, it will be interesting anyway.

 

 

Oh and BTW the Israeli's FAB are also making a similair design as the UTG for AKs and ARs and its really a lot better than UTG's you should check them out, after all they have one of the best fighting forces in the world and that design works for them.

I don't care how old you are, apparently your years do not reflect your wisdom, which is obvious, and I really doubt you have served this country with your outlook on small American companies, the backbone that keeps Americans feeding their families. “Glad I am not your neighbor” You’re right there and right about the hate thing, I hate fucking libs. I do run on emotion and fight from the heart as well from the head. You spew stupid shit from your mouth as if they facts, “logic” you don’t know the first damn thing about it! You talk out both sides of your mouth, typical of a lib to make their case. You say you said nothing against my products, no you just simply attacked my design ability and my integrity, calling our extended rail “vaporware” and spewed nothing but lies as statements of fact, also, typical of a lib. “Oh and BTW the Israeli's FAB are also making a similar design as the UTG for AKs and ARs and its really a lot better than UTG's” Oh and BTW that’s why I have weapon companies in Israel contacting me for my rail, like I said you don’t know shit, oops, I’m cursing again. As far as the path I take, really, WTF have you done bud, what are your great deeds of accomplishment, other than bash on the very companies that have fed your family, which based off what you’ve displayed here, maybe it should have been condoms your money went on instead of food!

[fxhart 14]

But complaining that it's Chinese or Taiwanese so it must be bad is a pretty rascist and prejuedicial behaviour IMHO.

 

Racist and prejudicial? Very low class of you sir.

[lifegard 2]

[camon 233]

Last year I spent over 100K dollars on the NET:

[lifegard 2]

Last year I spent over 100K dollars on the NET:

 

Then your not smellin' what the lifegard is cookin. To paraphrase someone we all have heard before!

[Juggernaut 11,054]

 

 

 

I didn't see no Juggernaut shirts on the list.....

 

If you are interested in perusing law suits.... use the legal system.... not this forum.....

 

Other than that.... stop posting ads for non contributors and trolling OUR business members............

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Last year I spent over 100K dollars on the NET:

 

Then your not smellin' what the lifegard is cookin. To paraphrase someone we all have heard before!

I think we can all guess what your cooking...

Edited September 29, 2009 by Nailbomb

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

[vitamink 90]

So in summation, if you buy utg products you're buying heavy cheap airsoft crap however, if you do buy utg products you get to make out with hot japanese women, take trips to Hong Kong, and get to spend $100,000 on saiga stuff.

 

Now i have a headache.

 

Maybe i didn't read this close enough.

 

Cameron, your products speak for themselves, id take the pepsi challege between your products over utg any day. Though i don't have any experience with them personally, i'm sure the Kross hellion is one bad mutha too. I know from my own experience that UTG is utter crap and i wont ever buy it again, maybe their stuff has improved over the last year or so, but i'll never know as they've left a really bad taste in my mouth. Even if you take away the fact that they're made overseas, you can't take away the fact that they suck. I'd understand if it was like a magpul rail or something, but utg...

[eodinert 1]

I hope the irony of 'buy American' for a part for an imported gun is not lost on everyone. Seems if y'all were worried about American jobs, you'd be shooting an 870.

[camon 233]

I hope the irony of 'buy American' for a part for an imported gun is not lost on everyone. Seems if y'all were worried about American jobs, you'd be shooting an 870.

 

When an American company wants to come up with a decent 12-gague, semi-automatic, mag fed, RELIABLE shotgun then we'll talk.

But a Rem 870 is not anywhere near a Saiga 12. Your argument is invalid because there are many American choices for Rail systems.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

I hope the irony of 'buy American' for a part for an imported gun is not lost on everyone. Seems if y'all were worried about American jobs, you'd be shooting an 870.

 

When an American company wants to come up with a decent 12-gague, semi-automatic, mag fed, RELIABLE shotgun then we'll talk.

But a Rem 870 is not anywhere near a Saiga 12. Your argument is invalid because there are many American choices for Rail systems.

Just due to the foundation being imported i should just shut up and send all of my money overseas? You can't buy american all the time, but when the option is there, why shouldn't you regardless on what your spending it on?

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I'm not here to tell you UTG is better then or just as good as an American made product.

 

With your statement of "EVERYTHING I have received from Leapers (UTG) has been of the highest quality", it implies that you've compared them to similar products of another brand, and UTG came out on top. No offense to your buddy, but if swears by UTG AR rails, I would assume he hasn't handled many (if any) other rails. Speaking on UTG AR rails specifically, literally everything I've heard about them is that they're heavy as sack of bricks. There's eleventy billion US rail makers out there for AR's, and of the ones I have handled (Troy, Daniel Defense, LaRue) are light as hell, and yet very sturdy. I used to beat the shit out of my AR with a Troy rail on it, and it never gave up. The only reason I don't have it anymore, is that I swapped that upper out for a midlength, and didn't have a need for a carbine length rail. I"d bet my life that the guy I sold it to, still has a perfectly functioning, light, rock-solid rail........even he beats on it like I did.

 

I hope the irony of 'buy American' for a part for an imported gun is not lost on everyone. Seems if y'all were worried about American jobs, you'd be shooting an 870.

 

When an American company wants to come up with a decent 12-gague, semi-automatic, mag fed, RELIABLE shotgun then we'll talk.

But a Rem 870 is not anywhere near a Saiga 12. Your argument is invalid because there are many American choices for Rail systems.

 

EXACTLY!

 

Let Remington put out an AK-style, magazine-fed, semi-auto 12ga at a comparable price........I'll buy one.

Edited September 29, 2009 by 22_Shooter

[REKIII 0]

It seems that there is a lot of mis-understanding here.

 

We have 3 major issues going on here that seem to be overlapping and causing confusion

 

1 - Buying American vs Foreign - This is largely opinion based, to truely answer this question, you can't use quality and price as deciding factors, it must be a fundamental decision, otherwise it is a price issue, or quality issue.

 

2 - Preference - When someone says, "I swear by *insert company here*" there are some here that think, 'wow, this person has tried every comparable product available and likes this one best' as opposed to the true fact, that this person bought product x and likes it. Thats not so hard to believe. I really like my old BMW but that doesn't mean I've driven every other car of the same vintage, it just means I like it.

 

3 - Perception of price vs quality - This is 100% opinion based. I may thing it is worth the extra $200 to by a product that I feel is 50% better than a competing product, but someone else may think the product is only 20% better and therefore not worth the $200 premium, and yet another person may feel it is only 20% better but it is still worth the $200 premium.

 

So really we are all right on certain aspects and all wrong on others, we don't have to agree with you and just because someone does not agree with you doesn't mean you are wrong (unless of course you don't agree with me, then you ARE wrong ) but yeah, everyone settly down, this thread just exemplifies why we need competition and free market. The less expensive foriegn parts keep the domestic prices down and the domestic quality keeps the quality of the foriegn stuff.

 

I apologize for any gramatical or spelling errors.

 

Bob

[Bvamp 604]

If you spend your money on foreign goods, then foreigners will be the ones in your home.

 

 

BUY AMERICAN!

 

Once that dollar goes overseas, you can kiss it goodbye until it buys your house from under you when you cant pay your taxes or bills!!!

[vintagedude88 16]

If you spend your money on foreign goods, then foreigners will be the ones in your home.

 

 

BUY AMERICAN!

 

Once that dollar goes overseas, you can kiss it goodbye until it buys your house from under you when you cant pay your taxes or bills!!!

 

With that statement, you just told everybody to NOT buy anything foreign like a Saiga and go buy domestic which is basically AR or M1As or Mossys or Remingtons.

 

The choice to buy American should not be an "Us vs. Them" mentality. It should be a quality vs. krap. Now truthfully there are many American products that are krap. Just the same, there are many foreign products which are good. The American thing to do is the use your freedom of choice to make the decision for yourself!

 

I know for many of us, cost is a very big issue. Thats why we're all here in this forum. If cost was no object for me, I would buy an AA-12 instead of an S12.

 

However, we all have limited resources and seek to find the best value in all the things we buy whether it is foreign or domestic. In regards to quad rails, it use to be a debate of paying some serious money for Chaos's old rail vs. the inexpensive offering from Leapers(still yet to materialize in the market!!). However, Chaos and Kross recently cost engineered their product to match the price of the cheaper offering without much sacrifice to quality. My hats off to you guys because that is American ingenuity that I admire. Quality product made in USA priced affordably for all us "budget" minded Americans. Now that is value!

 

So enough of the bashing please. How would you like it if a Toyota truck owner bashed on the quality of your Chevy truck? Or the guy with the Honda Accord bashing on your Saturn Aura?