DemonDesert 0 Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 I bought my Saiga .308 just the other day at a gunshow. While I was there I picked up six boxes of .308 Winchester. But after scanning this forum I see that there are several types of this round. Will what I bought work OK? What is the difference between it and .308 NATO, say? Please help before I blow my face off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NicksFla 0 Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 forget 308 and find some of the Aussie 7.62, or Spainish. Stick with 7.52 NATO, there is a difference. I got a thousand of Hirtenbirger Austrian by UPS today. Rare find. Check out cheaperthandirt.com and sportsmanguide.com, you will not find any better source for ammo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
000buck 0 Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 You can use either use either 762x51 or 308, I think 762x51 is a hair longer headspace wise or something and the Saiga evidently is chambered for the longer, so both work. I got some early 90s Australian from Cheaperthandirt and some early 80s from Midway. Same price, but the early 90s from Cheaperthandirt stinks alot more than the midway. Both work great in the two Saigas I ran it through. 200 rds for $35 @ www.midwayusa.com and their shipping is very fair and FAST. 160 rds for $30 @ www.cheaperthandirt.com, and they are fair and pretty fast too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DemonDesert 0 Posted December 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2003 Thanks, guys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DemonDesert 0 Posted December 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 NicksFla, what kind of scope is that in your picture. Your gun looks sharp. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NicksFla 0 Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 It is a Barska, Chinnese who also make several "brand names", Simmons, BSA etc. I have seen the same scope as a Winchester. This one was at Sportsmanguide.com, he had his "Guide Gear" name put on it. It is easy to spot by any name because it is an Odd 6.5X20X50. I studied and got it over a Redfield. I shoot at 117 yards, put a piece of brown shipping paper up, turn the scope to 20, shoot a hole in the paper and then shoot at the hole. Have had it on and off several times for cleaning the Saiga and it has seen 700+ recoils, no problems. Paid $69 plus 10 for shipping. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DemonDesert 0 Posted December 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 Thanks for the info. That's not a bad price. Might have to get that scope. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DemonDesert 0 Posted January 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Picked up 400 rounds of 7.62 X 51 FMJ Portugese at a gun show today, Bala I suppose is the company name. Anybody shot any of it? It cycles through the rifle OK, so I recokon it will be good. I'm almost certain it is corrosive. Pretty bullet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chips 0 Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 i just picked up some u.s. made 7.62x51 nato, and some .308 tracers. has anyone had any experience with tracers, do they damage the barrell at all? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Onepoint 0 Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 I doubt it, the barrel is chrome lined and unless you are running full auto with nithing but tracers, it wont hurt it. Just to clarify, the only difference of 7.62 nato and 308 is the case is milspec thickness on NATO stuff, and the case on US commercial ammo can be thinner. On Cetmes or HKs with a fluted chamber it can lead to a base separation of the case. The Saigas AK design won't suffer this, it should eat about anything you put through it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
txpete 0 Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 there is a difference between 762 nato and 308win.first the 308 win is loaded hotter than the milsec 762 nato and there is a slight difference in the neck angle of the brass. check out www.aimsurplus.com for prices on surplus ammo.great guys to deal with. I have only shot my handloads in my 16 inch saiga. 147 gr win fmjbt 42 grs IMR 4895 1980 lc match brass win lg. rifle primers this is the same load I use in my M1A and it outstanding in my saiga,which as far as I am concerned is the best buy for the buck out there today. pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sheik Yerbouti 0 Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 (edited) there is a difference between 762 nato and 308win.first the 308 win is loaded hotter than the milsec 762 nato and there is a slight difference in the neck angle of the brass.check out www.aimsurplus.com for prices on surplus ammo.great guys to deal with. I have only shot my handloads in my 16 inch saiga. 147 gr win fmjbt 42 grs IMR 4895 1980 lc match brass win lg. rifle primers this is the same load I use in my M1A and it outstanding in my saiga,which as far as I am concerned is the best buy for the buck out there today. pete Txpete, while there are differences, they are not enough to warrant concern in general. There are exeptions. For instance, there was a lot of Chilean "NATO" ammo that got into the USA a few years ago which was incredibly hot, as in flattened primers and split heads. The best way to easily gage pressure, short of a pressure testing rig or a peizoelectric strain gage is muzzle velocity. A 147gr bullet loaded in a 'NATO' cartridge leaving the barrel at 2700fps will have the same mean pressure at a 147gr bullet loaded in a 'Winchester' cartridge leaving the barrel at 2700 fps in the same gun. Physics doesn't work any other way. So while, technically, there are differences between NATO and commercial 308 loadings, they are generally not enough to be a problem in a Saiga. You can shoot either with confidence. Edited January 19, 2004 by Sheik Yerbouti Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NicksFla 0 Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 BALA is for Ball ammo, NATO Ball. Got me a NEW Springfield Armory M1 Garand, 30-06. Shooting 1.5 inch. groups at 100 yrds with open sights using 70s Korean surplus. Then pull out Saiga and shoot with the 20X scope and Hirtenbergr .308 I delink from a machine gun belt just to mess with their minds. Have had more feed problems with the Garand (8-10) in 2 weeks, than I have had with the Saiga in 7 months. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 That's a great grouping for old surplus ammo! I've been shooting .308 Indian surplus out of my new Savage (10FP-LE2A) and it only does about a 4in group at 100yds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DemonDesert 0 Posted February 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Where did you come by the Indian surplus, KySoldier. Is it corrosive? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 I got it at www.falparts.com. They described it as Brass, boxer, 1998 production, originally packed 10 rounds per plastic sleeve, 624 rounds per steel ammo can. 40lbs ...and gave me a link to www.dansammo.com to purchase it. I got two cans for just over $100 I think it was. But the best thing was the free shipping for my 80lbs of ammo. I don't know if its corrosive or not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DemonDesert 0 Posted February 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Thanks. Not a bad deal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Yeah, the price was right, I just shoot it through my CETME, its good for blasting stuff...but not through my new Savage, the ammo just doesn't perform that well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sheik Yerbouti 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 There is very little 308 in the world that is corrosive. Most of the corrosive ammo in general was made prior to 1958. What makes it corrosive is the compound used in the primer - fulminate of mercury. Becaue of international treaties regarding the use of mercury in all of industry, pretty much all countries have quit using it in primers. 7.62 NATO/308 Win popularized after the use of mercury compounds was abandoned in the ammo industry. Anything loaded with the NATO headstamp is just about guaranteed to be non-corrosive. Where you find corrosive ammo is in old stocks of 7.62x39, very old 7mm and 8mm Mauser, 7.92 Argentine, pre-war 30-06 (and some Asian stocks) and 303 Brit with the cordite propellant. Anything else is a rare oddity these days. Also, you can get 'corrosion' with black powder, but for different reasons. The residue from black powder is highly hygroscopic and when it reacts with moisture it turns to a low grade acid. The Portuguese NATO stuff is highly desirable. I prefer it over the German DAG ammo. It is extremely consistent, and medium to medium-low pressure. It runs thru my FALs on a 5-6 setting. I don't know if its corrosive or not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 Thanks for the lesson on ammo, never knew much about it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DemonDesert 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 I finally got around to shooting some of the Portuguese the other day. I wish I had got more of it. There's a gun show here this weekend, and supposedly the same guy will be back, so maybe I can get some more--lots more. That was a very interesting comment about corrosive ammo, Sheik Yerbouti. The gentleman who sold me the Port had told me it was such, that's why I had assumed it was. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alleycat 0 Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 The Portuguese 7.62X51 is among the best surplus ammo. Radway Green (British) surplus is very good too; however, I think the Portuguese is even better than RG. It is non-corrosive and Berdan primed so not reloadable very easily. The only corrosive 7.62X51 I know of is some of the Sellier and Bellot (S& ammo. I was surprised to learn it is corrosive although I do not know if all of it is corrosive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 S & B made a corrosive ammo?!? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
duffman 1 Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Portugese surplus is the best in my book followed by South African surplus for price and performance. Stay away from the Indian stuff. A lot of bad reports of rounds not leaving the barrel leading to the next round causing damage and injury to weapon and shooter. No personal experience speaking here, just rumor control from gunshows and other gunboards. Too much other good stuff to be had to take a chance to save a few cents per round IMHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 I too have heard some horror stories on the Indian surplus...after I bought a bunch! I've shot a couple hundred rounds and had no significant problems...but it isn't very accurate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Here's something I've been wondering... What is the best 308 match ammo? I've got a great rifle but only have the Indian 308 (blah) and the standard Remington stuff from walmart. I've seen some sites devoted to making match grade ammo but they are expensive to just "try out." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lletronshootit 0 Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 KySoldier, If you are looking for accuracy, handload for that Savage. I have owned and worked with a lot of turnbolts and you can't get a better shooter out of the box than a Savage, built from the barrel out. If you can't get 1 moa, somethings wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sheik Yerbouti 0 Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 Here's something I've been wondering... What is the best 308 match ammo? I've got a great rifle but only have the Indian 308 (blah) and the standard Remington stuff from walmart. For the ultimate in accuracy, you just about have to handload - it allows you to tune your ammo for a particular gun. That being said, the standard by which all other precision ammo is judged is Federal Gold Match. In 308 Win, it can run you $1/round, but Widener's has it cheaper. I usually only buy it when I have a new gun and want to judge the accuracy potential out of the box. I have had two guns that I shot it out of that I was unable to improve the groups. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 I looked at Widener's, didn't see it (not the easiest website to navigate). How about $18 for 20rds w/ free shipping and no tax? Is that a decent price? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sheik Yerbouti 0 Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 (edited) $18 is less than what I pay locally. Let me dig out my Widener's catalog this weekend and see if I can find their price and P/N. Edited February 25, 2004 by Sheik Yerbouti Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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