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Any large organization that's based upon any sort of ideology is going to do some things that are good and some things that are terrible, religions not excluded. Just for the record, whether or not he actually believed in it, Hitler did espouse the virtues of Aryan Christendom and he used it to mobilize the masses. The Nazis considered themselves to be a Christian army, hence all the crosses all over everything. The Nazi swastika itself is supposed to be a cross with axes.

 

The Catholic Church has done some awful, awful things throughout history, but they were the only ones standing up for the rights of the indigenous poor in Latin America from the 60s-80s. While the CIA was overthrowing legitimate democracies, propping up brutal dictators, and arming/training paramilitary groups to murder anyone who spoke out, the Catholic Church had the balls to develop and implement the "Preferential Option for the Poor."

 

I am an atheist, but I understand the function of religion and I don't think it's "good" or "bad." It's both and it's neither.

 

Also, I would recommend that everyone who wants to understand the concept of religion itself and the role it plays in human affairs (Christians included; I doubt it will make you lose your faith;]) read Cat's Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut. It is, by far, the best treatise on the human condition I have ever read. It's also achingly funny, and it's a very quick read.

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I don't have much use for "isms" in general. They serve to separate us into irrelevant factions, thus keeping us fearful and marginalized. Roughly 2% of the population has psychopathic tendencies and the rest of us have consciences, regardless of creed (or lack thereof). I don't have to be Christian to follow the Golden Rule or the Sermon on the Mount, just like you don't have to be atheist to enjoy Vonnegut.

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I don't have much use for "isms" in general. They serve to separate us into irrelevant factions, thus keeping us fearful and marginalized. Roughly 2% of the population has psychopathic tendencies and the rest of us have consciences, regardless of creed (or lack thereof). I don't have to be Christian to follow the Golden Rule or the Sermon on the Mount, just like you don't have to be atheist to enjoy Vonnegut.

 

Golden rule allows those with unorthodox moralities to take advantage of the majority. I prefer sticking to 'lex talionis'... sure I can forgive some acts, but if I know that the person in question is a 'career asshole' and the act is the norm for him/her, there will be no forgiving. People who live to take advantage of others must be put in their place... whether that is in a cell or six feet under, that is for society to decide.

 

So, for me, it boils down to this... i will turn the other cheek once, but if i am struck a second time, it's go-time.

 

I do not like using 'good' or 'evil' in my arguments... What is good? What is evil? I will come forth to say that I am neither, and believe that neither exists; you simply have people with differing values. That does not make me immoral, but rather amoral. Is killing wrong? No. It always depends on the situation and for that reason cannot be generalized by a simple statement. Religion simply serves as a moral compass to guide people through life. Since every religion's compass is marked differently and points in a different direction, there is bound to be fighting.

 

Tolerance is then, perhaps, the most important virtue.

Edited by zenmetsu
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guys....i love a good arguement, you know I do...

 

 

but why isnt this in politics or the fight club?

 

GET OFF YOUR ASS AND DO YOUR FUCKING JOB - TOSS THIS SHIT TO THE CURB ALREADY, WTF

 

what the FUCK, guys?

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I heard on Fox News today that there are 5,000 honor killings in America each year. I wonder if that was a misquote? The number seems awfully high. Perhaps I heard wrong. Maybe Megyn Kelly meant world wide? Regardless, I hope the young woman does not have to be returned to her parents if she is that frightened. Honor Killing...that makes about as much sense as ethnic cleansing. Just murder by another name.

 

I've always thought religion, or lack thereof, is a personal thing. One should not be scorned for their choice. Why should a person even have to disclose their preference or explain the reason for the choice they make? Why do intrusive obnoxious individuals think they have the right to ask? Those type always ask "you believe in god don't you? I always reply that it is none of their business for the simple fact it is none of their business. Who do they think they are? God's census worker or something? Even the Founding Fathers of the United States of America disliked those guys. They immortalized freedom of religion in the Constitution of the United States. Some individuals try to turn religion into a gang mentality concept. Either you are one of us or you are not. That, my friends, is what originated the Inquisition and other abominations practiced in history under the guise of religion. The Founding Fathers did not want that foolishness taking place in America. Thank ____! "fill in the blank line anyway you wish...this is America and that is your constitutional right". I'll get off my soap box now.

Edited by t165
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Well, Dude, What is wrong with watching Fox News and commenting on it? Why should I "beware"? And why are you begging so hard to have this thread locked or sent to fight club? I haven't seen anything on this thread even close to a fight. If the topic or comments contributed to this thread upset you so much why don't you just not read them? I'm serious. The other members along with myself are having a discussion and I do not see why it should be squelched when all you have to do is simply not click on the thread.

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That, my friends, is what originated the Inquisition and other abominations practiced in history under the guise of religion.

+1

 

Sorry Bvamp, but the most important questions & debates that humanity has, are bound to come up from time to time.

No apologizes.

 

And it probably wouldn't be to good for harmony to move a thealogical debate into a forum like fight club. :unsure:

THAT, could get ugly.

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Fox News is more like a tabloid. They have lost all credibility in my eyes. They are the so called conservatives when they didn't even allow Ron Paul in the New Hampshire debate. I love how the fake patriot con man Glen Beck always says "I have unconfirmed reports about ....................." . What the hell is an unconfirmed report. Everything is unconfirmed by them. That way they can always retract there statements. And then my neighbor can tell me what Iran is about to do, even though the report was unconfirmed. These are the same shit heads who get us involved in other people's business. I gotta give it up to them. They know how to prey on people and they know people don't look into a story. So without any source or clue they can just throw a statement out there. You can get better news from Jon Stewart. If this girl is so scared she should buy a saiga. +1 for BVamp on the 5000 statement.

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On another note the nazis weren't a Christian army. They were obsessed with the Occult. Also, the swastika is an ancient hindu symbol that was turned on an angle by Hitler. The hindus have been trying to revive this symbol but because people are totally ignorant they think that they're nazis. This is what type of dumb downed ignorant populous we've become. It was a religious symbol before Hitler used it. Many of the crosses that the Germans used pre-dated Christianity and have more to do with paganism. Many of the crosses are ancient pagan symbols and have nothing to do with Jesus.

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Well naveed...it appears Fox News was right on this one and you and Bvamp have to eat some humble pie. The United Nation puts the number of Honor Killings at an estimated 5000 a year world wide. You both need to man-up and send Fox News your apologies. :rolleyes: Looks like Megyn Kelly had her facts right. I'm the one who was wrong by indicating I thought Megyn had stated 5,000 Honor Killings in America instead of worldwide!

 

The truth is I do agree with both you and Bvamp on truthful reporting. All of the networks now seem to pander to one political party or another. A lot of spin and half truths...just like politicians. It's gotten to the point I really do not know what to believe anymore. Perhaps it has always been that way and I'm just now growing up enough to realize. And Glenn Beck is nuts...he can be entertaining though!

 

And if the girl were old enough to buy a Saiga then this thread would not exist...she would be 18 or older and would not have to go home if she did not want to.

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Sorry Bvamp, but the most important questions & debates that humanity has, are bound to come up from time to time.

No apologizes.

 

And it probably wouldn't be to good for harmony to move a thealogical debate into a forum like fight club. :unsure:

THAT, could get ugly.

 

 

 

 

That was Bvamp's not so subtle way of telling the mods how to do their job.......

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I personally find the term "unconfirmed" used by Fox less revolting than MSNBC/CNN saying a "high-powered" weapon was discovered in someone's home arsenal (usually 3 firearms removed :rolleyes: ) when a .22 RF is seen being carried out or how they always seem to "up" the death toll every time there is a shooting spree or airline crash happens somewhere in the world. :angry2:

 

How the f**k can over 500 people be feared dead you ass holes when a Boeing 747 only holds 450 (what, they put passengers out on the roof and wings of the plane like passenger trains in India?). :wacko:

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I personally find the term "unconfirmed" used by Fox less revolting than MSNBC/CNN saying a "high-powered" weapon was discovered in someone's home arsenal (usually 3 firearms removed :rolleyes: ) when a .22 RF is seen being carried out or how they always seem to "up" the death toll every time there is a shooting spree or airline crash happens somewhere in the world. :angry2:

 

How the f**k can over 500 people be feared dead you ass holes when a Boeing 747 only holds 450 (what, they put passengers out on the roof and wings of the plane like passenger trains in India?). :wacko:

 

Well if a 747 goes down in India, it will likely kill over 9000 people... 450 on the plane and 8500+ on the ground.

 

But yes, Fux news has a habit of exaggerating.

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Christianity is probably the worst when it comes to violence....

:lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol:

Oh now THAT'S rich, right there!!!

:lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol:

 

I would have to say that all the NON-Christian, moral-lacking, no-true-right-and-wrong people who MURDER unborn children have Christianity beat hands-down when it comes to violence....

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Christianity is probably the worst when it comes to violence....

:lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol:

Oh now THAT'S rich, right there!!!

:lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol:

 

I would have to say that all the NON-Christian, moral-lacking, no-true-right-and-wrong people who MURDER unborn children have Christianity beat hands-down when it comes to violence....

 

Agreed. What's even worse is the people obsessed with population control who find killing babies totally acceptable and encourage it. There was an article a couple months ago stating "Babies Are Carbon Monsters".

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Islam is a religion of blood, it is a vile and ugly criminal cult of murder, rape, war, slavery and forced conversions.

I would love to meet a Muslim in battle.

 

A few facts:

 

1. Every nation that borders and Islamic nation suffers violence.

 

2. 99 percent of the worlds terrorist's are muslim.

 

3. Islam permits murder of any non Muslim and actually states that killing a non Muslim will guarantee heaven to the murderer.

 

4. Islam permits slavery to this day, many non Muslim and kidnapped young girls and boys are slaves and sex slaves.

 

5. Tiny Israel to the Philippines, Spain, France, The U.K. and us in the USA, India, Thailand and many other nations have experienced the barbarity that is called Islam.

 

6. No other religion demands an unending war against all who disagree with it and will not serve the moon god allah.

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Christianity is probably the worst when it comes to violence....

:lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol:

Oh now THAT'S rich, right there!!!

:lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol:

 

I would have to say that all the NON-Christian, moral-lacking, no-true-right-and-wrong people who MURDER unborn children have Christianity beat hands-down when it comes to violence....

 

I believe that studies were done on this very subject. If you consider atheism to be a religion (which I do), then it would rank #1 when you take the events of the last 100 years into account. Most people would not consider atheism to be a religion, and Christianity would be the next one down on the list.

 

Even then, the number of deaths due to the inquisition, crusades, and witch trials is a small blip on the radar when compared to the deaths caused by famine and genocide at the hands of atheist communist regimes.

 

Saying that Nazi germany was not Christian, and that the killings were not motivated is nonsense. The jews were specifically targeted.

 

I for one do not see the killings as being the biggest crime against humanity. The destruction of knowledge and the halting of technological advancement for whatever reason is perhaps the worst thing that society can endure. The fall of the roman empire and the ensuing christian dark ages has put us what, 600+ years back?

 

Imagine how awesome Saiga guns would be in another 600 years! We could be shooting those now! :lolol:

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2. 99 percent of the worlds terrorist's are muslim.

 

 

6. No other religion demands an unending war against all who disagree with it and will not serve the moon god allah.

 

I guess the other 1 percent are my other countrymen in northern Irland.

 

Jesus spifically said "I did not come to bring peace". & we have the same Lord... Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, AKA God.

These conflicts are all part of the big plan...

 

Christianity is probably the worst when it comes to violence....

:lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol:

Oh now THAT'S rich, right there!!!

:lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol: :lolol:

 

I would have to say that all the NON-Christian, moral-lacking, no-true-right-and-wrong people who MURDER unborn children have Christianity beat hands-down when it comes to violence....

 

I believe that studies were done on this very subject. If you consider atheism to be a religion (which I do), then it would rank #1 when you take the events of the last 100 years into account. Most people would not consider atheism to be a religion, and Christianity would be the next one down on the list.

 

 

Saying that Nazi germany was not Christian, and that the killings were not motivated is nonsense. The jews were specifically targeted.

 

The fall of the roman empire and the ensuing christian dark ages has put us what, 600+ years back?

 

Yes, Atheism IS a religion. It holds self-warship, evolution & warship of nature at it's core.

They try to cloke it in science, but most people don't call them on the fact that the scientific process requires one to be able to reproduce results in a controlled environment. Otherwise it is THEORY. Hence the THEORY of evolution.

 

WWII Germany was Christian/Catholic, yes.

But the Nazi party was not. National Socialism was their faith. Amphetamine usage was extremely prevalent among party members especially Hitler, Himmler Hess, Mengle & Goebbels. This explains the paranoid state their government was in & how their military moved so fast. (no need for sleep.) (Ours gives it to fighter pilots & others to help them stay alert during extended patrols too)

The Pope condemned Nazi Germany. They didn't excommunicate Hitler as their parishioners would have suffered at the hands of the Nazis if he had. Why they haven't as of yet & why the current Pope, a former Hitler youth hasn't is beyond me.

If you are unaware, most Neo-Nazis say they warship Thor.

 

And a while after the fall of the Roman empire a very powerful German family eventually took control of the Russians, England & a few other countrys. I wish I could remember the families names :angry: but under their rule the dark ages took place. Their linage still is royalty in the U.K.

 

 

I am not saying that the Catholic church is Innocent by any means. But without the organization & strength of the Roman empire Christianity would not have been able to spread. This was just part of the Lord's plan... Once the faith was cemented, Martin Luther gave his life to help make the actual scriptures available to the people.

 

I respect the Catholic church, chances are if you have ever been in a hospital they have helped you. My hospital is owned by them, there are even Nuns living in the top of many hospitals. That being said, I was borne catholic... Then I actually read the bible 12 years ago. Now I have a great relationship with the Lord & an understanding of his prophetic message. I do not identify with organized religion though, since most have some type of hypocrisy or another.

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Right Paulyski. The church did some bad bad things, but they have redeemed themselves in the last 200 years or so. Please take nothing I say as an insult to the church or to christianity. I only bring up these points to show that every institution goes through some very dark times. No one has any claims to being more innocent or holy than anyone else. It just irks me when a biblethumper comes up and criticizes me for my faith when I have done no harm to anyone.

 

Yes people of my faith killed, pillaged and raped... and they had the christians do them the same way. Hell, the christians took all that was considered holy by my faith and bastardized it. They tried to kill off the faith by seeking out the followers and killing them... even after they converted. They did all of these things and yet, I harbor no ill will against Christians. Superstition and intolerance sometimes cause all of us to do some really stupid things. Your little Easter-egg hunt has a rather sinister background to it which stands as evidence that what I speak here is the truth. Even the retarded mathematical system to determine WHICH day Easter actually falls on was put into place by the church to obscure the very nature of the original holiday and ensure that it would never again fall on the correct day. Funny thing is, the holiday still bears the name of our goddess.

 

 

Now for what krusader said..

1. Every nation that borders and Islamic nation suffers violence.
2. 99 percent of the worlds terrorist's are muslim.
3. Islam permits murder of any non Muslim and actually states that killing a non Muslim will guarantee heaven to the murderer.
4. Islam permits slavery to this day, many non Muslim and kidnapped young girls and boys are slaves and sex slaves.
5. Tiny Israel to the Philippines, Spain, France, The U.K. and us in the USA, India, Thailand and many other nations have experienced the barbarity that is called Islam.
6. No other religion demands an unending war against all who disagree with it and will not serve the moon god allah.

1. Every nation that borders Israel suffers violence. I blame Judaism.

2. Bullshit. Cite your source. You know what they say about statistics....

3. Technically the christian bible says the same thing:

Deuteronomy 13:

6 Suppose your own full brother, your son, your daughter, your beloved wife, or your closest friend should seduce you secretly and encourage you to go and serve other gods that neither you nor your ancestors have previously known, 7 the gods of the surrounding people (whether near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other). 8 You must not give in to him or even listen to him; do not feel sympathy for him or spare him or cover up for him. 9 Instead, you must kill him without fail! Your own hand must be the first to strike him, and then the hands of the whole community.

 

Read that, then go back and remember what this whole damned thread is about. I held off on bringing this up initially because, well, I really did not want to drive a stake right into the heart of everyone's bullshit arguments, especially given the high percentage of Christians here. But, alas, I went there. May I be forgiven by those whom feel offended and may the gods shelter me from the impending shitstorm.

4. Christianity permits slavery. There was this Christian nation called the United States. They used slaves to harvest cotton. Look it up some time.

5. WHAT? Elucidate. Your words make no sense. So what, Islam is global. So is Christianity and Judaism. Stating that Islam is barbarity is subjective, many would say the same about my faith, about Christianity, Shinto and Atheism. Kettle: Hey pot, can I have my color back?

6. Again, untrue. Parts of the Christian bible specifically call out otherwise. See my above note on #3 for just one of hundreds of examples. The problem is that the bible contradicts itself on many occasions.

 

Again, I do not attack Christianity for the sake of invalidating it, but rather to show that it is no more valid and no more righteous than any other faith. All faiths, even mine, have flaws. They have their dark and sinister pasts, or they are based upon superstitions which have long since been overcome.

 

Faith is a moral compass; a tool to get through life. To criticize someone for the choice of tools that they employ is foolish and accomplishes nothing. Again I say, tolerance is the true mark of wisdom and the first virtue that anyone should try to attain.

Edited by zenmetsu
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Deuteronomy 13:

6 Suppose your own full brother, your son, your daughter, your beloved wife, or your closest friend should seduce you secretly and encourage you to go and serve other gods that neither you nor your ancestors have previously known, 7 the gods of the surrounding people (whether near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other). 8 You must not give in to him or even listen to him; do not feel sympathy for him or spare him or cover up for him. 9 Instead, you must kill him without fail! Your own hand must be the first to strike him, and then the hands of the whole community.

 

Read that, then go back and remember what this whole damned thread is about. I held off on bringing this up initially because, well, I really did not want to drive a stake right into the heart of everyone's bullshit arguments, especially given the high percentage of Christians here. But, alas, I went there. May I be forgiven by those whom feel offended and may the gods shelter me from the impending shitstorm.

4. Christianity permits slavery. There was this Christian nation called the United States. They used slaves to harvest cotton. Look it up some time.

5. WHAT? Elucidate. Your words make no sense. So what, Islam is global. So is Christianity and Judaism. Stating that Islam is barbarity is subjective, many would say the same about my faith, about Christianity, Shinto and Atheism. Kettle: Hey pot, can I have my color back?

6. Again, untrue. Parts of the Christian bible specifically call out otherwise. See my above note on #3 for just one of hundreds of examples. The problem is that the bible contradicts itself on many occasions.

 

Again, I do not attack Christianity for the sake of invalidating it, but rather to show that it is no more valid and no more righteous than any other faith. All faiths, even mine, have flaws. They have their dark and sinister pasts, or they are based upon superstitions which have long since been overcome.

 

Faith is a moral compass; a tool to get through life. To criticize someone for the choice of tools that they employ is foolish and accomplishes nothing. Again I say, tolerance is the true mark of wisdom and the first virtue that anyone should try to attain.

 

Ok first you cant just pull random a verse out of the bible and make them apply. that verse in Duet. is from the old testament back before during the exodus so like 4000 BC regardless of the fact that that verse has no relevance to modern Christianity actually it applies to Judaism and not modern Christianity (When Christ came he did away with the Laws of the Old Testament), and as far as claiming the Bible calls for an unending war id like to see where u randomly pull a verse from to support that arguement. You're right Christianity permitted slavery it did not promote it but also Christians were the main liners for the abolition of slavery. I could stand here and bash other religions but then i would be judging the entire religion based on the act of one person, just as we as law abiding respectfull "assualt" rifle owners do not want the socialists in America to blame us for the common hood who has an illegal AK and uses it in a crime you too should not hold an entire sysem of believers/followers accountable for the short comings of a few. Do some research on Islam not all are these radicals though most are, most of the radicals stem from countries where there is no intellecual community so they are never challenged to actually look into their faith i know many rational muslims who not harm an innocent person anymore than i would but i also knew a terrorist who would, so i agree Islam does have a history of violence but so does Christianity, but in recent years is where u must base your ideas not collectively from hundreds of years ago.

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Ok first you cant just pull random a verse out of the bible and make them apply. that verse in Duet. is from the old testament back before during the exodus so like 4000 BC regardless of the fact that that verse has no relevance to modern Christianity actually it applies to Judaism and not modern Christianity (When Christ came he did away with the Laws of the Old Testament), and as far as claiming the Bible calls for an unending war id like to see where u randomly pull a verse from to support that arguement.

 

It was hardly random. I have studied judaism, christianity, islam and many others. I have a fascination with other faiths and by understanding them, I gain respect for them and their followers.

 

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all basically the same. Christianity builds upon Judaism and Islam builds upon Christianity. To ignore the roots of your own faith and ignore half of your own holy book for the sake of coming out of this argument ahead is not honorable in my opinion. I pulled from Deuteronomy on purpose. Within that book is something that Christians still hold themselves to: that being the 10 commandments.

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It was hardly random. I have studied judaism, christianity, islam and many others. I have a fascination with other faiths and by understanding them, I gain respect for them and their followers.

 

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all basically the same. Christianity builds upon Judaism and Islam builds upon Christianity. To ignore the roots of your own faith and ignore half of your own holy book for the sake of coming out of this argument ahead is not honorable in my opinion. I pulled from Deuteronomy on purpose. Within that book is something that Christians still hold themselves to: that being the 10 commandments.

If you have studied Christianity you would understand that when discussing the Old Testament you would understand that it mainly out of context to modern Christianity. I am not ignoring the verse but for you to say that modern chriatianity calls to kill unbelievers on based on that verse shows how low you are willing to go to pull a punch, if you ask any biblical scholar they will say the same

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It was hardly random. I have studied judaism, christianity, islam and many others. I have a fascination with other faiths and by understanding them, I gain respect for them and their followers.

 

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all basically the same. Christianity builds upon Judaism and Islam builds upon Christianity. To ignore the roots of your own faith and ignore half of your own holy book for the sake of coming out of this argument ahead is not honorable in my opinion. I pulled from Deuteronomy on purpose. Within that book is something that Christians still hold themselves to: that being the 10 commandments.

If you have studied Christianity you would understand that when discussing the Old Testament you would understand that it mainly out of context to modern Christianity. I am not ignoring the verse but for you to say that modern chriatianity calls to kill unbelievers on based on that verse shows how low you are willing to go to pull a punch, if you ask any biblical scholar they will say the same

 

As Paulyski said when he quoted, I think, Matthew 10:34

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

 

The book of Luke had a few cases where violence against non-believers was called out, if I recall properly. I could dig those up if you REALLY want me to.

 

The fact that this argument is still going on adds fuel to the fire which is my argument. Religion stirs certain emotions within people and causes them to become passionate to the point of violence and ignorance. The fact that a non-christian such as myself has a better knowledge of the christian faith than probably 90% of its followers is a saddening thing. What is even more tragic is the fact that if people took a moment to learn of other faiths and attempt to understand them, none of this bullshit would be happening in our world.

 

I preach tolerance and get called out as a blasphemer by most. W T F... and this is just an interwebz forum... in real life these verbal arguments will inevitably escalate into physical violence. Christian, Jew, Muslim, it matters not. Everyone acts the same in the end.

 

I am going to bow out of this argument now. My point seems to be lost in the static and I have no intention of angering people. Know your own faith, and know of the others BEFORE you start throwing stones. Unless a christian owns a copy of the Koran and has studied it to the same extent as his own Bible, everything he knows about Islam is hearsay.

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I guess Jesus influences The way I feel on this too:

 

Matt 10:34

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw 36 a man's enemies will be the members of his own household. 37 Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

 

 

If the parents kill the girl, she goes stright to heaven. So she will be ok!

Matt 10:17

"Be on your guard against men; they will hand you over to the local councils and flog you in their synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. 21 Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

 

The government is the one you gotta keep an eye on....

What will be the sign of his coming and of the end of the age?"

 

Matt 20:04

"Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, "I am the Christ", and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

 

9 "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

 

I harbor no negative feelings towards any of the members here due to their faith, or lack there of.

I do not get offended by viewpoints that differ from mine, or by past atrocities brought up by other members.

But when the SHTF... I'll be with mine... :blues:

 

Until then, Let's party! :beer:

In the words of Forrest Gump, That's about all I have to say about that. ;)

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Now for what krusader said..

1. Every nation that borders and Islamic nation suffers violence.
2. 99 percent of the worlds terrorist's are muslim.
3. Islam permits murder of any non Muslim and actually states that killing a non Muslim will guarantee heaven to the murderer.
4. Islam permits slavery to this day, many non Muslim and kidnapped young girls and boys are slaves and sex slaves.
5. Tiny Israel to the Philippines, Spain, France, The U.K. and us in the USA, India, Thailand and many other nations have experienced the barbarity that is called Islam.
6. No other religion demands an unending war against all who disagree with it and will not serve the moon god allah.

1. Every nation that borders Israel suffers violence. I blame Judaism.

2. Bullshit. Cite your source. You know what they say about statistics....

3. Technically the christian bible says the same thing:

5. WHAT? Elucidate. Your words make no sense. So what, Islam is global. So is Christianity and Judaism. Stating that Islam is barbarity is subjective, many would say the same about my faith, about Christianity, Shinto and Atheism. Kettle: Hey pot, can I have my color back?

6. Again, untrue. Parts of the Christian bible specifically call out otherwise. See my above note on #3 for just one of hundreds of examples. The problem is that the bible contradicts itself on many occasions.

 

Again, I do not attack Christianity for the sake of invalidating it, but rather to show that it is no more valid and no more righteous than any other faith. All faiths, even mine, have flaws. They have their dark and sinister pasts, or they are based upon superstitions which have long since been overcome.

 

Faith is a moral compass; a tool to get through life. To criticize someone for the choice of tools that they employ is foolish and accomplishes nothing. Again I say, tolerance is the true mark of wisdom and the first virtue that anyone should try to attain.

 

 

 

This would be laughable if it weren't so pitiful.

 

The fact that you attack Christianity at all show a decided lack of morality.

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