VWBeamer 1 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) Many of you may be like me, and want to have some medical supplies on hand in case of an emergency when regular medical services are not available. In the civil war, most injured soldiers died of infection. A good general purpose antibiotic would be good to have on hand. I recently had a problem with an infection and my Doctor prescribed Metronidazole, a effective generic antibiotic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metronidazole I got the same problem again, so I wanted to see if I could get the medication over the counter without paying for a Dr visit. Sadly it is prescription only. But after some research I found that the exact medication is used to treat fish and is sold without prescription at pet supply stores. http://www.calvetsupply.com/product/Metron...ral_Antibiotics Now, I would never take any prescription medicine without a Dr advice, so I made another appointment. I also do NOT advise people self diagnosing and self medicating themselves. that is not the purpose of this post. I did however, order some of these to have on hand in a SHTF situation in case my fish got sick. In no way do I promise or imply that these are safe for use by you or your family. Edited August 26, 2009 by VWBeamer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I try to be creative when it comes to stockpiling a few types of meds that I might need when I can't get to a doctor right away. If I am legally prescribed pain meds for something I might try to get by with not taking them all and setting a few aside to have in an emergency. Some doctors will give you "rainy day" supplies of certain things out of the free samples they get from drug companies. But that usually depends on what you want and how well they know you and trust your judgement. I doesn't hurt to ask. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 We use many of the same meds as animals. Athletes buy steroids from veteranarians quite often. I had a dog that the vet prescribed Diazapam (Valium) to. You can also get tetracycline for fish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rockina 60 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Something in this post seems fishy....thats all I have to say. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tover26 18 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 It's amazing what you can get on the veterinary side of things when you dig into it. I've been putting together a SHTF medical kit and have found everything I need except for a good local and general anesthetic and general pain killers. I'm sure there are legal ones out there. If I have to do field surgery on someone I love I'd like to not have the distraction of them screaming in agony. Logical candidates seem to be drunken unconsciousness, but that takes too long and I don't want to have to carry gallons of high proof alcohol with me. I'd love to find some epi-pens and injectible pain killers that would not get me in trouble with anyone. Given the nature of SHTF and end of wold discussions, I would guess that punture/slash and burn wounds would be the most common issues. As such, being able to treat these would involve things that normal medical kits don't even touch. Honestly, how many shitty band aids does a person really need? Except for an epi-pen and pain killers/anesthesia, I'm building my kits around the following: Suture kit: absorbable needle and thread Surgical scissors, forceps, probes, and hemostat Scalpel and several blades Brush to clean out wounds Quickclot and wound dressings for hemorrage Combat tourniquet of some kind Burn dressings Syringe and injectible broad spectrum antibiotic and sterile water for dilution Basic EMS reference cards Smelling salts Surgical tape and washable/reusable gauze pads Iodine Tincture to help bandages stick and sterile wound prep Latex gloves Larger band aids for dealing with blisters, superglue for smaller cuts and scrapes Advil Temporary cavity filling and anebesol Speaking of these items, anyone know where I can pick up some good EMS basic reference cards, preferably laminated and pocket sized? I've seen some but they're either too simplistic or too reliant on having access advanced medical equipment. I'd also like to get some epi pens and pain killers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 You can also go next door to the Donkey Show and get meds when south of the border! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dngrspot 3 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Given the nature of SHTF and end of wold discussions, I would guess that punture/slash and burn wounds would be the most common issues. As such, being able to treat these would involve things that normal medical kits don't even touch. Honestly, how many shitty band aids does a person really need? Except for an epi-pen and pain killers/anesthesia, I'm building my kits around the following: Suture kit: absorbable needle and thread Surgical scissors, forceps, probes, and hemostat Scalpel and several blades Brush to clean out wounds Quickclot and wound dressings for hemorrage Combat tourniquet of some kind Burn dressings Syringe and injectible broad spectrum antibiotic and sterile water for dilution Basic EMS reference cards Smelling salts Surgical tape and washable/reusable gauze pads Iodine Tincture to help bandages stick and sterile wound prep Latex gloves Larger band aids for dealing with blisters, superglue for smaller cuts and scrapes Advil Temporary cavity filling and anebesol Speaking of these items, anyone know where I can pick up some good EMS basic reference cards, preferably laminated and pocket sized? I've seen some but they're either too simplistic or too reliant on having access advanced medical equipment. I'd also like to get some epi pens and pain killers. While I do not have EMS reference cards, I can point you to the Special Forces Medical Handbook (FM ST 31-91B) available for free download at the address linked. As for your list, it looks like a pretty good start. Take a look at Israeli Bandages, the bandage/dressing combo used by the US Military in their individual first aid kits at this time. Also, I hate to say this, but while I was in the military, I was taught in multiple Self Aid and Buddy Care classes that tampons work very well when one needs to quickly plug a bullet wound. Just a thought. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) ....except for a good local and general anesthetic and general pain killers. I'm sure there are legal ones out there. If I have to do field surgery on someone I love I'd like to not have the distraction of them screaming in agony. Logical candidates seem to be drunken unconsciousness, but that takes too long and I don't want to have to carry gallons of high proof alcohol with me. Cocaine works as a local anesthetic when injected locally it used to be used medically for that purpose. Heroin/opium works as a general anesthetic. Novocaine replaced cocaine for obvious reasons. Morphine is derived from the same poppy as heroin. Ketamine (horse tranquilizer) is a good tranquilizer that wears off in 1 hour. I know you specified LEGAL, but due to the euphoric effects & inherent dangers the FDA is rather tight with anesthesia. So these suggestions are for informational purposes only. Don't get caught. & of course Ibuprofen for generalized pain. Edit: Oh yeah, Alcohol is a blood thinner & an anti coagulant. It will make the patient's blood less able to clot & make them more likely to bleed to death. Edit: If you get caught, just tell the cops that some guy on the internet told you about the useful medical propertys. I'm sure the cops will buy that one & let you off... Edited August 26, 2009 by Paulyski Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) Cocaine works as a local anesthetic when injected locally it used to be used medically for that purpose. . . and more trivia: Cocaine is still used today in some operations. Edited August 26, 2009 by nalioth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Cocaine works as a local anesthetic when injected locally it used to be used medically for that purpose. . . and more trivia: Cocaine is still used today in some operations. ... like operation Sal's friday night..... But seriously, buy your SHTF meds south of the border. Like the guy above said. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lvjeffro 30 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) mexico is real risky to get meds from, especially since all of the boarder town violence lately... I believe you can order some meds online from off shore locals and canada... vet meds sounds like a good option also... cocaine is, I believe, still used for eye surgeries... Edited August 27, 2009 by lvjeffro Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VWBeamer 1 Posted August 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 I have found out since I first posted this, that you can get almost any antibiotic you need on ebay- http://shop.ebay.com/paylesspetproducts/m....#item1e55c38ae8 again, I strongly suggest you do NOT self diagnose and self medicate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacsucks 3 Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) My 2 cents...unless its exactly the same thing given to humans sold for fish, I would not use fish meds in human practice. I saw this with tetracycline where it was the human form and you just crush it and add to some hot water then pour into the tank, that would likely be ok. Often pet specific meds have the active drug in them but also contain other chems to help them dissolve in water and also do not require the same purity standards as human meds. Dog and cat meds (i have no experience here but seems more logical) are more likely to work on humans without any of the side effects you might encounter from fish meds since they are intended to be dissolved in the gut and were dealing with a similar mammal biology vs fish biology. Edited August 27, 2009 by sacsucks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tover26 18 Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) Yeah, it's gotta be legal. Thanks for the tampon comment, I think... it makes sense though. Too bad there aren't veterinarian-related Fish'o-cocaine, Eques-tropium, and the like. Tranquilizers are a bit dangerous... calming anxiety isn't the same as eliminating pain. I'd think that dental lidocaine or dental xylocaine would be ideal as a local because you wouldn't have to deal with general-anesthesia issues relating to body weight and dosages. Fun thread. I didn't know that alcohol was a blood thinner/anti-coagulant. Wasn't that what early frontiersmen used for practically everything? No epi-pens? Edited August 27, 2009 by EricinMaryland Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 ... Fun thread. I didn't know that alcohol was a blood thinner/anti-coagulant. Wasn't that what early frontiersmen used for practically everything? Actually, Laudanum, a mixture of opium and alcohol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tover26 18 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Adult and Junior Strength Epi-pens Xylocaine - Ointment and Injectible Flavors The Epi-pens are a bit pricey at almost $100 and I'm still looking for a cheaper and also legal alternative. If I get them, I'll come back on this thread and post any comments and a scan of the materials as compared to prescription epi-pens you'd get from a U.S. pharmacy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tover26 18 Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Actual real epi-pens and xylocaine. Shipping took a while, but no complaints. Epi-pens were damn expensive, and if you consider that vet-grade epinephrine for $10 or so would make 1,000 epi-pens, it gets a bit frustrating. I can't believe the price differences on this stuff. Just for fun, Viagra for sex is 10x the price of Viagra for people needing it for medical issues. A friend of mine who is on a heart transplant waiting list was telling me about this. Crazy pharma-hookers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Do what the Amish do... go to tractor supply co.... and buy veterinary grade antibiotics..... they may make you feel funny... but you will survive the PAW.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
camon 233 Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 I need to find someone to smuggle Albuterol across the Mexico border for me again. I have acute asthma and thanks to the "Environmentalists" and the corrupt system my medical costs have increased tenfold. My $5 generic albuterol is now illegal because that little 2oz thing supposedly rips a hole in the ozone faster than horny teens on prom night. Now I have to pay about 40-50$ for non-generic stuff that is "ozone" friendly. Where is real Health Care Reform(aka getting them the fuck out of government and the government the fuck out of them) when we need it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tover26 18 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 The thing that kills me... is that, it's not like the actual cost of healthcare has changed at all. Compared to 5 years ago, which was when prescriptions started getting insane and health insurance premiums started going up, for the most part everyone gets paid the same as they were back then across the sprectrum of care providers. It's not like Pfizer, Astra Zeneca, and other pharma companies suddenly had to spend 5x to develop their drug prodcution facilities. It pisses me off. If R&D costs are loaded into brand drugs and patent protected for a number of years before generics can compete, theoretically - the pharma companies make bank and some to pay back R&D/production costs AND SO DRUGS SHOULD GET CHEAPER OVER TIME. Health insurance premiums are rising - why? In my company, premiums went up almost 1,000% over the past 5 years. No one can tell you why. "Costs are rising across the board," our agent said. Really? I work with a couple hundred hospitals and several times that clinic wise across the country. At a few I know the people well enough to ask questions about this and most of them have been laying people off, cutting expenses, etc because guess what? Their health insurance costs and cost of business are rising too! So, are pharma and suppliers making bank? Well, no. They're laying people off and reducing expenses too. Many are publicly-traded and are losing money or barely making money for the past 5 years. I'm 100% in favor of health care reform, I just don't know where you'd start. It seems there's a massive amount of money moving around with everyone taking a slice in an upward spiral of cost inflation, but no one can explain why and all signs seem to suggest it's not greedy people, but the system itself. Starting somewhere, I'd argue that tort reform has to be the very first thing and I have yet to hear from Obama anything that sounds like a reform of the systems built up around healthcare, that entrench and shore it up and ensure it stays as fucked up as it wants to be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
camon 233 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 IMO the problem with our HCS(healthcare system) is several things. 1. Insurance companies have corrupted the government to regulate health care to benefit them. 2. People are ignorant and dumb and believe they need to go to the ER for the cold, straining the medical facilities. 3. People are taught to rely on their insurance to take care of them should that rainy day when they take a slug to the gut come along as opposed to saving their money(aka providing incentives for people to thrust themselves into debt). So what can be done to fix it? 1. Removal of insurance lobbyists from our government. The "free market" is a total hoax these days. General Physicians no longer have a reason to keep their prices low to something the insured consumer can afford because insurance covers 80% of their patients. Consumers need to stop using insurance to pay for general visits and encourage competition in that market. 2. Education of the people to be self-reliant and knowledge on basic health conditions. I never go to a doctor for basic illnesses. I have a cold, I stay in bed and drink fluids. The only time I go to emergency services is if my asthma does not improve over several days, as it usually indicates I have pneumonia which I have almost died from. 3. Again with #1, people should ween off of insurance. Start saving your money up for that bad day. Don't rely on insurance to cover everything for you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tover26 18 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 You've got some valid points, but self-education and improved awareness only go so far. If you look at your insurance bills, you'll see the prices that hospitals and doctors are charging to insurance. The crazy thing is that insurance pays it... and suddenly we're in a chicken/egg scenario. Does insurance pay this because that's what the cost is? Do care providers charge those fees because that's what insurance will reimburse? With lobbyists, you have the same chicken/egg thing going on... because costs are high, insurance needs to lobby, or do they lobby so they can get more money? To the point of self-awareness, I would like to see more transparency in the system. Where is a doctor that will serve me and my family, challenge us to be healthy, and engender any kind of a customer loyalty relationship? I was talking with a colleague in a competitor company and they had just moved their insurance plan over to self-insured... and to be sure they didn't have employees maxing it out, they set the co-pay for ER visits at $500. The end result being that ER visits fell through the floor. Regardless, the company knew that their first year premium would skyrocket in year 2, so their plan was to switch self-insurance programs the next year and so on. Travelling as much as I do, I'm often struck by the TSA mentality of so many healthcare providers. Fill out this form, stand in line, go wait here, now go do this, okay you pass our hurdles, now bend over and grab your ankles. I hear you on the asthma thing. I don't know how the price holds up to what you can get, but the place I grabbed the epi-pens has albuterol... Albuterol here with Rx $27.... Using this type of thing as a launch point, I bet you could find it without a Rx. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lawson 6 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 the last time i was in mexico, i brought back a big bottle of cipro, it cures about anything Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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