Saiga .308 or M1A?

[church03 0]

If price wasn't an issue, is there any real advantages to an M1A? All the "stock" M1A i have seen tend to shoot 2-3MOA, an from what I hear same with the Saiga .308s. Both have BHO, yes the sights on the M1A are better, but the Saiga would be easier to maintain, right? So from a piratical stand point, which is the better BR?

[janusthephoenix 24]

If someone put the two guns on a table and told me to take one, I'd take the M1A. I'm no expert on M1A's, but the first practical issue that I thought of is that it's American made, therefore parts would be more readily available. Although if I didn't already have a Saiga, I would have to think a bit longer about it.

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

I would take the Saiga .308 for the reliability of the action and the ease of conversion. The Garand has a great action, but it is a heavy rifle. The Saiga is probably also a heavy rifle, but the Kalashnikov action is a very proven design.

[gunboy69 50]

The M1A will hold its value,and its a great American weapon with a great history......but....Have you seen the advertisement with the guy covered with mud?

They put it to the test on Guns and Ammo television,an it failed badly. The guy got off maybe two shots,and it went down hill from there. If I'm going to battle I'd take the saiga,and for the price of an M1A you could buy three or four ,and bring a few friends into battle with you.

[Paladin_Hammer 8]

Well if accuracy is an issue, then I'd take the M1A. I know, I have ancestors who made the claim, that the M14 easily put rounds within a palm sized area.

 

Meanwhile, so many people bag on the Saiga for it's accuracy that I'm kind of curious what will happen when I finally pick up that .308 and take it to the range.

[Azrial 1,091]

The M1A for accuracy.

 

The Saiga for reliability.

 

They are two very different rifles.

[church03 0]

The M1A for accuracy.

 

The Saiga for reliability.

 

They are two very different rifles.

Yes they are, but they seem to fill the same role. As a MBR, like the G3, and FAL. But I wanted to know if there is any reason to pick the S308 over any of the others?

[Havoc308 3]

The M1A for accuracy.

 

The Saiga for reliability.

 

They are two very different rifles.

Yes they are, but they seem to fill the same role. As a MBR, like the G3, and FAL. But I wanted to know if there is any reason to pick the S308 over any of the others?

Inexpensive, or used to be. I paid $295 and $355 for my Saiga 308s some years ago. Still, where else can you find a brand new semi 308 rifle for the $600 or so they are going for now. Convert it yourself, install a RSA trigger group, buy 10 or so mags and still have a significant amount of change left over from the price of the base Springfield M1A standard. My Saigas routinely shoot 1.5" to 2" groups @ 100 with Federal Premium w/150gn Nosler Partitions. Good enough for hunting, in fact I better get going, daylight is at 6:55..... PS read my sig line!

Edited August 27, 2009 by Havoc308

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Problem with the M1A is the quality reportedly varies and accuracy along with it. For 1200.00 or more this is unacceptable. I dont know I just cant find a reason to like the rifle but Im sure I must be wrong.

[medenjaci 0]

If I want to collect it I will get M1 over Saiga every time, If I want to go to war I take Saiga over M1 every time.

 

Hope this helps.

[jimdigriz 580]

If price wasn't an issue, is there any real advantages to an M1A? All the "stock" M1A i have seen tend to shoot 2-3MOA, an from what I hear same with the Saiga .308s. Both have BHO, yes the sights on the M1A are better, but the Saiga would be easier to maintain, right? So from a piratical stand point, which is the better BR?

 

The sighting system on a Saiga can be improved, as well as the trigger. This would probably make the accuracy about equal, and then the reliability carries the day for the Saiga. On my 7.62x39, I have the Red Star Arms trigger ready to install, and after that, the Tech Sights. (But the Krebs peep sight would be good too).

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

Keep in mind for a MBR, that the M14 comes with 20 rnd magazines. You can get 25 rnd magazines for the Saiga. More expensive, but worth every penny if your life depended on them.

[church03 0]

Keep in mind for a MBR, that the M14 comes with 20 rnd magazines. You can get 25 rnd magazines for the Saiga. More expensive, but worth every penny if your life depended on them.

 

That's a good point, think I am leaning to the S.308. Maybe even to. One 22" and a 16'. Make one to replace my PSL I had to sell, An one as a carbine. I really like the M1A, but will just have wait a few years on that.

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

I've gradually grown away from the saiga toward the M1A. Owning both I really appreciate the saiga's simplicity and what I'll call ease of ownership (for what I paid for it, if it rusts away or gets crushed when my car gets rear ended, no tears will be shed). However, the M1A can be tuned to be much more accurate than the saiga, there is an easier supply of magazines, it responds to quality ammunition better (more rewarding for your chore of taking the time to roll your own), triggers can be made better on the M1A, scope mounts are more reasonable, and well it's a US gun that hangs with an AR with much more power.

 

The saiga is awesome for what it is. I paid $300 for mine, and it will shoot a cold bbl 5 round group within about 2.5 inches. That's not bad at all, and the first 3 shots typically go into 1.5 inches. If I were stuck with the saiga I wouldn't feel stuck at all. I've lavished mine with hand (home) made curly maple stocks and other goodies, and it draws much attention. However, a good range gun it is not, and the M1A can be made into one (of course, as you say, price being no object).

 

Buck

[PinkFloyd 63]

Depends on what youre using it for. I think 308's for home defense are pointless; get a shotgun. So that pretty much leaves it as a main battle rifle or a DMR. If I want a battle rifle, I'd go with the Saiga for ease of use and lower weight. If I wanted a DMR, I'd probably still go with a long barreled Saiga because of cost. I'd convert it into a Saiganov and be done with it. I've seen guys getting MOA out of S308's and it probably cost them less to modify their guns to that kind of accuracy then it would cost them to buy an M1A

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Depends on what youre using it for. I think 308's for home defense are pointless; get a shotgun. So that pretty much leaves it as a main battle rifle or a DMR. If I want a battle rifle, I'd go with the Saiga for ease of use and lower weight. If I wanted a DMR, I'd probably still go with a long barreled Saiga because of cost. I'd convert it into a Saiganov and be done with it. I've seen guys getting MOA out of S308's and it probably cost them less to modify their guns to that kind of accuracy then it would cost them to buy an M1A

 

It depends on what you are defending against. If the BG is wearing body armor a shottie is very lacking barring direct head shots. Yes in times like this these things must be considered. No simple answers any more. The whole over penetration issue may well be the most over emphasized issue concerning guns. I do keep a 40SW carbine at my bedside but have no problem grabbing the 308, wont argue that shotguns represent the conventional wisdom selection in this usage because they are but I wouldn't just accept the position as hard fact.

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

You can always use frangible bullets. Barnes has them and they are on sale at Midway USA now $24.99 140 gr MPG bullets / 50. NOTE these are not ready to fire ammo, but bullets used for reloading. No lead. Will makes Zombies and others, go away in a quick hurry. Designed to minimize ricochet and non targets.

[BKLYN_C 14]

The M1A for accuracy.

 

The Saiga for reliability.

 

They are two very different rifles.

Yes they are, but they seem to fill the same role. As a MBR, like the G3, and FAL. But I wanted to know if there is any reason to pick the S308 over any of the others?

 

Saiga 308 is MBR??? Are you kidding? IT IS A HUNTING RIFLE

 

And by the way, Russians don't have a concept of MBR. They have the concept of AK

Edited September 6, 2009 by BKLYN_C

[BKLYN_C 14]

double tap

Edited September 5, 2009 by BKLYN_C

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

I'll take a Saiga .308 that has been "upgraded" any day as a Main Battle Rifle. To Russaings AK stands for Assault Rifle. Since this is the weapon issued to their military, I don't see how you can get any more "main" in battle rifle than that. Used in battles all over the world. It was the battle rifle against US in Vietnam, and proved very worthy. It's the Main Battle Rifle of many parts of the world, especially those that have a disdain for America. Now, I'm talking about the AK-47, the AK-74 and the AKM, etc. The .308 is unique to U.S., but it is a superior round to shoot against the 7.62 x 39 Soviet. Hits harder, further, and more accurately than the 7.62 x 39 Soviet. Only draw back is it kicks a bit more and has 25 round magazines instead of 30. You can hand load a .308 Winchester with 110 gr bullet to over 3,000 fps, and that is really cooking.

 

So, would I go to battle with a Saiga .308?? Hell yes.

[TacSat 90]

Going have to stay with my M1A. Just for simple accuracy. Long range. Dump AR and replace with S308. Had a Mac 90 and Colt AR both 7.62x39. hated the round. Although it was more accurate in the AR at 100 yrds.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2009 by TacSat

[G O B 3,516]

The best reason for an S-.308 is the versatility of having the same basic tool in different sizes. Like a dremmell and a 1/4" die grinder, or a 3/8 drill and a 1/2" drill.

Why should your plinker, your shotgun and your deer rifle have totally different controls and operating principles? With the Saigas you have the same easy to clean and reliable action and the muscle memory for both operating and disassembly/cleaning is reinforced by simple repetition of use; unlike having 3 rifles and 2 shotguns that each have different operating principles and controls, and each has a different take down procedure -and no parts are interchangeable!

[Steppe Sweeper 22]

The best reason for an S-.308 is the versatility of having the same basic tool in different sizes. Like a dremmell and a 1/4" die grinder, or a 3/8 drill and a 1/2" drill.

Why should your plinker, your shotgun and your deer rifle have totally different controls and operating principles? With the Saigas you have the same easy to clean and reliable action and the muscle memory for both operating and disassembly/cleaning is reinforced by simple repetition of use; unlike having 3 rifles and 2 shotguns that each have different operating principles and controls, and each has a different take down procedure -and no parts are interchangeable!

There was this FBMG ad, joke probably but reality most likely to anyone with the paper and interested, for this "zombie loadout" I found online bout a year ago offering 2 packages, primary weapons Saiga coversions either .308 or 12 gauge. Now my EOTWAWKI wet dream has been a Socom 16, Sig 556 Classic, and 930 SPX or M2 Tac depending on funds plus handguns and rimfires, for quite a while. I had bought a S-12 and 2 Surefire 12's on a whim one day with a back burner intent on converting such...the day I bought a pristine Python also fondled a 16" S-308 and promised the owner I'd be back for that big boned but hot sexy devotchka. That ad and common system returned recently in a down to earth reality check wherein a newly single father cannot fund whatever mechanical system serves as a religious higher power or magical talisman lucky charm that strikes his fancy...I'm thinking a purchase of a .308 Saiga and conversion of both it and the 12 gauge is called for. Anyone in MI interested/experienced in this operation? Not Mechanically/gunsmithally inclined at all, I want Ultimak rails on both and side folders, 922r compliant so I don't get railed before TSHTF while I bust off into some dune on state property; and moreso on the .308 after I get it, want good BUIS, Valmet/Galil style.

 

"Steppe Sweeper"? pretty catchy but thought I was 'Clyde Barrow' here. I know where I'm Lester Gillis, Verne Miller, and Fred Burke, where did I register as ol' Clyde?

[AARguy 0]

Brilliant minds think alike. I have a 930 SPX and love it. I started with a "loaded" M1A fairly recently and consider it a surgical instrument with long range capabilities, so I keep a scope and bipod on it. I then got a SOCOM 16 for a lighter, more maneuverable version of the same for shorter range purposes in more cluttered environments. It also can serve as a "hanger queen" source of common M1A spare parts if required. I then got a Saiga 308 (16") as a backup. I am more than pleased with its performance. But an M1A it ain't. The renowned reliability it shares with its AK-47 lineage is due in large part to the less stringent tolerances of AK components. This allows desert sand, jungle slime and all the rest to effect the weapon MUCH less than the precision tolerances of an M1A/M14, but it also degrades accuracy. Look at the selector switch of a full auto M14. It goes from SAFE to SEMI to AUTO. It is a rifle that can be used as a machine gun. Look at an AK-47. The selector switch goes from SAFE to AUTO to SEMI. It is a machine gun that can be used as a rifle.

[mav 459]

My choice is as follows, I got the Saiga 308, its lighter, its more reliable, and it strikes more fear in the unbeating hearts of zombies. In seriousness though, I dont understand the accuracy argument, maybe the M1A is a little more accurate, though if you do a search on some of Aksarben's post, you might change your mind, point is, if accuracy is your main goal, by a Savage bolt gun and outshoot all of them, I get that your looking for an all in one, but that just doesn't work, tools are specialized for a reason.

[Azrial 1,091]

You know I like the Saiga .308, for what it is, but it is not a competitor, or even a peer to the M1A, no matter how much you want it to be. I have read of 1 MOA or better Saigas several times on the Internet, but have never seen one in the real world. (I saw a guy on TV that could fly, with no more then a red cape!!!)

 

Show me one that wins a National High Power Competition and I will be impressed, until then, quit drinking all the Kool-Aid.

[Twinsen 86]

I'm with Azrial on this one. The Saiga is a good cheap rifle. The M1A is a world beater with a huge bump in price.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

You know I like the Saiga .308, for what it is, but it is not a competitor, or even a peer to the M1A, no matter how much you want it to be. I have read of 1 MOA or better Saigas several times on the Internet, but have never seen one in the real world. (I saw a guy on TV that could fly, with no more then a red cape!!!)

 

Show me one that wins a National High Power Competition and I will be impressed, until then, quit drinking all the Kool-Aid.

 

As soon as they add the "dragging through the mud and still fire" requirement to competitive shooting the Saiga will make its presence known. As soon as they add the "sandy ammo grab bag" requirement it will be winning them. Of ourse no one would use a Saiga over a M1A in competition, that isn't why we love them. Every one like to be accurate but its much nicer to know the rifle will fire no matter what is thrown at it. As for 1MOA Saigas sure they exist but more as an accident than anything else, I am very happy with 2MOA with selected ammo and sub 4MOA with any steel case junk I can find.

[Azrial 1,091]

As soon as they add the "dragging through the mud and still fire" requirement to competitive shooting the Saiga will make its presence known. As soon as they add the "sandy ammo grab bag" requirement it will be winning them. Of ourse no one would use a Saiga over a M1A in competition, that isn't why we love them. Every one like to be accurate but its much nicer to know the rifle will fire no matter what is thrown at it. As for 1MOA Saigas sure they exist but more as an accident than anything else, I am very happy with 2MOA with selected ammo and sub 4MOA with any steel case junk I can find.

The M14 and M1A are hardly light weights when it comes to reliability, but they are not up to the standard of reliability set by the AK, but you pay a price for that. Like I and others have said, two very different rifles. I just get tired of the lies of people trying to tell us that the Saiga .308 will do it all, it won't.

 

I say there is no such thing as a 1 MOA Saiga and never has been and if you have a 2 MOA, that is extraordinary, congratulations. Honestly you have a better chance of seeing a unicorn then a 1 MOA AK, of any caliber, in real life.

[Wolverine 10,360]

I have a SA M1A Scout & a SA Socom 16 together with four Saigas. As Azrial stated, they are entirely different weapons. The Saigas are much lighter, somewhat more reliable in horrible conditions and less accurate. The M1A's have better sights and adjustments, are durable, reasonably reliable under harsh conditions, are accurate and can be finely tuned. I like them all, but they're different. Even the two M1A's sight and handle differently. Just my $0.02.