ram123 17 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 I'm thinking of buying a saiga 5.45 mainly dur to the lower price. What are the pros/cons of getting it in the 5.45? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Krom 36 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Pros: -cheap ammo! -very easy to mod to use ak 74 mags -74 mags are pretty affordable and easy to find -saiga quality -I really like 5.45 ballistics Cons -no domestic ammo production Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PinkFloyd 63 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Pro: -Tumbles when it hits flesh causing internal wounding -low recoil Cons: -Less accurate than .223 imo -More bullet drop -Ammo is hard/impossible to find locally. You're going to have to buy it offline unless you live in the south west. -Mags are pricey, tho I'm an AR person I'll be honest. I still love 545x39 tho; I think it's an amazing round and I'd definitly own a gun in 545 assuming you're committed to buying and stocking that caliber. That's something I do anyways with all of my calibers, but if you like to only have 40-200 rounds to ammo on hand, you cant exactly buy 545 anywhere. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 A can of 5.45 is going for $145-150 for 1080 rounds, very reasonable, considering. So what if it's not local--even with shipping it's a lot cheaper than .223 or 7.62x39. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vegasdom 0 Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 (edited) Hornady is now making a VMAX round for 5.45 and 7.62 x 39. 7.62 is already out. I'm sure were going to see alot of interesting 5.45 rounds from other US manufactureres in the near future, and there is always the cheap surplus and Wolf type ammo. I don't think $20(30 new) for a mag is pricy and they are 100% better quality than AR mags. Edited August 29, 2009 by vegasdom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
martilyo 1 Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 $150 for 1,080 rounds is 13.8 cents per round. The only thing I own which costs less to shoot is my Ruger 10/22! I'll relay my impressions of the 545 later this weekend when I go to the range. I would have really liked to hav the 308, but damn, that ammo is pricey!! You can buy the ammo at (expensive) gun shows, but usually I buy all of my ammo online, normally from www.thesportsmansguide.com When you join their club their prices are pretty cheap, plus the have discount coupons (current coupon code is SG293, good for $10 off any $99 or more order. The code is good until December 31st, 2009). I don't work there, but thought I'd share my bargains with you guys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jeepranch 16 Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 there is no "con" now that the saiga 545 is out. do the math, its simple. You can still buy a lifetime supply of 545 el cheapo still. My experience with the round has been nothing but positive. The performance of the military round is impressive to say the least. Im temped to dispose of the finicky ARs completely if I hadnt been shooting them for 20 years. If It wasnt for keltec and bolt actions Id dispose of the 223 ammo as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 -Less accurate than .223 imo Shorter casing with the same overall length means less accuracy for more reliability. Longer cases are harder to feed, but lock up in a chamber more solidly. So no need to say "IMO". It is a fact that 5.45 is more reliable in feeding and less accurate in firing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ram123 17 Posted August 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 I did it, I placed an order with CGW and I'm also having a conversion done.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vegasdom 0 Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 If your not shooting competition I think most can live with the accuracy. The 5.45 has enough accuracy within 200m to get the job done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PinkFloyd 63 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 -Less accurate than .223 imo Shorter casing with the same overall length means less accuracy for more reliability. Longer cases are harder to feed, but lock up in a chamber more solidly. So no need to say "IMO". It is a fact that 5.45 is more reliable in feeding and less accurate in firing. Yeah I get what youre saying. I just have always chalked up my inaccuracy with 545 guns to human error/ak's being just a smidgeon less accurate than AR's and the like. Still plenty accurate tho for a assault rifle. As for some domestic supplies of 545 coming our way... well it looks like I'll be needing one of these guns now And yeah I realize spam cans are cheap as hell but I hate buying ammunition off the internet. Call me paranoid but I dont want the fact that I bought X amount of ammo to be common knowledge once the government decides it wants all ammo to be microstamped of registered or whatnot. I'd just prefer not to have to deal with that and I buy locally with cash. Again call me paranoid/crazy... still these days i wouldnt put anything past the government... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
martilyo 1 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 -Less accurate than .223 imo Shorter casing with the same overall length means less accuracy for more reliability. Longer cases are harder to feed, but lock up in a chamber more solidly. So no need to say "IMO". It is a fact that 5.45 is more reliable in feeding and less accurate in firing. Yeah I get what youre saying. I just have always chalked up my inaccuracy with 545 guns to human error/ak's being just a smidgeon less accurate than AR's and the like. Still plenty accurate tho for a assault rifle. As for some domestic supplies of 545 coming our way... well it looks like I'll be needing one of these guns now And yeah I realize spam cans are cheap as hell but I hate buying ammunition off the internet. Call me paranoid but I dont want the fact that I bought X amount of ammo to be common knowledge once the government decides it wants all ammo to be microstamped of registered or whatnot. I'd just prefer not to have to deal with that and I buy locally with cash. Again call me paranoid/crazy... still these days i wouldnt put anything past the government... Try placing an order with www.centerfiresystems.com I have ordered tons of stuff from them including ammo. Their listed web prices are showing a 3% cash (or check) discount. I call, get an order number then mail a check. I have not had any errors in ordering. Their Saigas have free shipping until 9/30/09. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 -Less accurate than .223 imo Shorter casing with the same overall length means less accuracy for more reliability. Longer cases are harder to feed, but lock up in a chamber more solidly. So no need to say "IMO". It is a fact that 5.45 is more reliable in feeding and less accurate in firing. Yeah I get what youre saying. I just have always chalked up my inaccuracy with 545 guns to human error/ak's being just a smidgeon less accurate than AR's and the like. Still plenty accurate tho for a assault rifle. As for some domestic supplies of 545 coming our way... well it looks like I'll be needing one of these guns now And yeah I realize spam cans are cheap as hell but I hate buying ammunition off the internet. Call me paranoid but I dont want the fact that I bought X amount of ammo to be common knowledge once the government decides it wants all ammo to be microstamped of registered or whatnot. I'd just prefer not to have to deal with that and I buy locally with cash. Again call me paranoid/crazy... still these days i wouldnt put anything past the government... Well if your that paranoid about internet transactions maybe you shouldn't be posting on a public firearms-related forum discussing your firearms-related purchases....It seems incredibly inconsistent. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PinkFloyd 63 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Well if your that paranoid about internet transactions maybe you shouldn't be posting on a public firearms-related forum discussing your firearms-related purchases....It seems incredibly inconsistent. What firearms? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vegasdom 0 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 What firearms? Saiga Ya, who said anything about guns. Were talken Antelope. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Armadillo 1 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Wow! An antelope with a face only a mother could love.......kinda like the rifle before conversion. Looking at getting a parts kit, selling off what I don't need and then getting the 5.45 for conversion. What firearms? Saiga Ya, who said anything about guns. Were talken Antelope. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK-47 33 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) The one argument against the saiga 5.45 I see as being very valid is this one. It is even less powerfull than .223/ 5.56mm nato. If you've ever set foot in an Ar-15 vs AK-47 argument you'll see lot of people pointing out the shortcommings of the .223 round. It needs to fragment to work well, and it needs to be going faster than 2500 Fps to frag reliably. 5.45x39mm isn't built to fragment, and the tumbling/yawing thing that is so often discussed about 5.45 is not really a very effective fight stopping feature, nowhere near as effective as a fragmenting round. 5.45 wounds may kill, but it might take hours or even days, The whole "poison bullet" thing from Russian invasion of Afganistan backs this up... the wounds could be lethal but rarely were they immediately incapacitating. The 5.45 soft points are probably better defensive rounds, but not as good as .223 soft points, and are just as expensive as any other ammo. So really 5.45 has cheaper PRACTICE ammo, not cheap ammo for all purposes. Edited September 1, 2009 by JK-47 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
veprk 12 Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) Yes,fragmenting is a more effective way,but tumbleing is better then a straight through hole. The point of tumbleing and fragmenting is not all about one shot,one intsant kill. Back in ww1 people were taking hits,sent to the aid station,patched up and were back on the line in weeks as long as nothing vital was hit. Fragmenting and tumbeling wounds are much harder for a doctor to patch up,taking up time,supplys and space. Also allowing infections to do there job 223 requires velocity to do its job,where 5.45 doesnt care wether its going 2900fps,or 1200fps,its going to tumble regardless. Ive been shootin 5.45 for 5 years now and have done several basic terminal balistic tests and the bullet does exactly as ive heard. One complaint ive heard and feel is true is lack of penetration. I would like to add though that in one test, a 53gr 5.45 russian surplus round went through a 5" brick,then tumbled through a box with a pumpkin in it,and then through another 5" brick. Thats good enough for me! I have also put them through cars with no issue of dropping the target on the other side. The chinese conducted a test comparing the 5.45,223 and there new round which escapes me right now and they found that regardless of tumbleing or fragmentation,at 90 yards on a pig,I quote "the 5.45 shows significantly larger wounds over both of the other caliber's". Edited September 6, 2009 by veprk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MD_Willington 11 Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 The 5.45 can't be that bad.. its what 75gr... look at the black hills ammo they use in the m4 now.. 70+ gr. maybe the Russians had it right to begin with for 21/22 cal ammo.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK-47 33 Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Yes,fragmenting is a more effective way,but tumbleing is better then a straight through hole. The point of tumbleing and fragmenting is not all about one shot,one intsant kill. Back in ww1 people were taking hits,sent to the aid station,patched up and were back on the line in weeks as long as nothing vital was hit. Fragmenting and tumbeling wounds are much harder for a doctor to patch up,taking up time,supplys and space. Also allowing infections to do there job Perhaps as a strategy for a nationwide millitary force, this tactic makes sense. For the average individual, it's not a great plan. If you or the people you love are in danger, you want to stop that threat A.S.A.P. and not have to wait two weeks for the threat to succumb from infection of their wounds. I am not trying to say 5.45 is not effective, but its mechanisim for wounding is less effective than fragmentation like .223. With the exact same weight bullet, comparing a .223 soft point with a 5.45 soft point, the .223 soft point will allways have more velocity and energy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
martilyo 1 Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Getting back to the pros and cons, one con is the current lack of magazines, but I assume this problem will be fixed in the near future. I bought an AK-74 30 round mag and it worked just fine as long as I didn't load 30 rounds. It performed well with 20-25 rounds in it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK-47 33 Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 The best mags will probably always be the Milspec mags. I don't think they are all that scarce- but you'll pay about 20$ for them. http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Surplus...45x39_Mags.html They should work with the addition of a bullet guide. I'd say the decent supply of mags at this price is a PRO. No reason to wait around for inferior Promags or Surefires or whatever is going to come out next. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 A can of 5.45 is going for $145-150 for 1080 rounds, very reasonable, considering. So what if it's not local--even with shipping it's a lot cheaper than .223 or 7.62x39. Where? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigj480 203 Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 A can of 5.45 is going for $145-150 for 1080 rounds, very reasonable, considering. So what if it's not local--even with shipping it's a lot cheaper than .223 or 7.62x39. Where? http://gun-deals.com/ammo.php?caliber=5.45x39 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Garys4598 1,065 Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 A can of 5.45 is going for $145-150 for 1080 rounds, very reasonable, considering. So what if it's not local--even with shipping it's a lot cheaper than .223 or 7.62x39. Where? Right here; $149.95 when you purchase two or more: http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_5.45x39_FMJ.html A few weeks back, during AIM's "Summer Sale" the shipping was one cent for a customer's entire order (which is when I purchased 4 tins). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m1key 7 Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) Getting back to the pros and cons, one con is the current lack of magazines, but I assume this problem will be fixed in the near future. I bought an AK-74 30 round mag and it worked just fine as long as I didn't load 30 rounds. It performed well with 20-25 rounds in it. Do you have a bullet guide installed in your rifle? Mil surp mags won't feed reliably without one. There should be no problem using widely available military surplus mags fully loaded with 30 rounds. Edited September 8, 2009 by m1key Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 A can of 5.45 is going for $145-150 for 1080 rounds, very reasonable, considering. So what if it's not local--even with shipping it's a lot cheaper than .223 or 7.62x39. Where? Right here; $149.95 when you purchase two or more: http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_5.45x39_FMJ.html A few weeks back, during AIM's "Summer Sale" the shipping was one cent for a customer's entire order (which is when I purchased 4 tins). Thanks gentlemen! I am on to some of it. I do not even have a rifle in that caliber, yet... Wow, 1¢ is a lot cheaper then $20 S&H! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
martilyo 1 Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 M1Key, I did not modify the bullet guide in the AK74 magazine. It only misfed when I loaded 30 rounds.With 20-25 rounds I had no misfeeds with 4 mag reloads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m1key 7 Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) M1Key, I did not modify the bullet guide in the AK74 magazine. It only misfed when I loaded 30 rounds.With 20-25 rounds I had no misfeeds with 4 mag reloads. Interesting, but I was referring to Dinzag's bullet guide which must be installed in your rifle for the mags to work right. See here: http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_545x39/545ftg.html Edited September 9, 2009 by m1key Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 I jumped on that $0.01 shipping for some Romanian 8mm. Great deal today. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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