m1key 7 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 (edited) Anyone ever experimented with making hollow point 5.45 ammo by knocking the tip off factory fmj with hollow cavity and tested them for terminal effects on various target media? I have been thinking of this lately since I have some fmjs but can't justify buying factory hp...not yet anyway. And I REALLY would like to try soft points but there don't seem to be any around... Edited September 2, 2009 by m1key Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmax4x4 68 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I have heard of ol'timers putting .22 in the lathe in wood shop before .22hp were around. But I would not just hold a 5.45 to a bench grinder or anything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Toby Allen 0 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I've thought of this myself. I thought about making jig that you could put the bullet in and take just a small portion of the tip off to make a softpoint and you could drill a small hole and complete the hollowpoint. I was thinking of doing this to the .308 and a 9mm to make expanding rounds out of full metal jackets. It will be intersting to see what someone with more bullet knowledge has to say about this. I heard that in the old days cowboys would cut a cross into their bullet to make it expand,fragment better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 well, i had a thought, but almost all 5.45 is steel core anyhow.....plus i wouldnt want anyone to get HURT doing it.... lets just say a cordless screwgun came to mind, and and arm's length away.....no, i aint saying it, im not gonna get in trouble for some dumb ass blowing a finger off..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Plan on drilling the hole to the exact same depth every time, or you will create rifle ammo that patterns like a shotgun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFox 69 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Wow, this is a whole new breed of stupid and no one has been called on it. Drilling a hole in a low velocity solid lead bullet to make a HP bullet is one thing. Attempting to do it with rifle ammo... It shows you have no idea how the 5.45 works. This round relies on the steel core shifting forward into the airspace in the jacket for its terminal effects. Basically going through things sideways. IF grinding the tip of does what you intend, then instead of the bullets center of gravity shifting on impact, that steel core will just shed the jacket and pass through doing even less than normal damage. If you wanna make HP bullets buy a swage and forming dies or bullet molds. The chances of you fucking up your ammo, firearm, yourself or someone else are a lot less. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m1key 7 Posted September 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 (edited) I never mentioned drilling a hole in anything. I was referring to commercial 60gr FMJ which has no steel core. And yes, I understand exactly how the terminal effects work...just trying to facilitate fragmentation, if possible. I doubt doing so would harm anything, except the intended recipient. Edited September 2, 2009 by m1key Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saigafreake 27 Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 barnaul makes soft points copes usually has them in stock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m1key 7 Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 barnaul makes soft points copes usually has them in stock. Thanks. if so, I will buy plenty of them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
martilyo 1 Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 It's not safe and not worth the effort. Spend a few bucks and buy hollow points. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m1key 7 Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) Don't know what's so dangerous. Simple matter of grinding a small, measured portion off the tip. See picture. The two in the middle are commercial FMJ with hollow cavity. Knock a bit off the end and you would have a serious deep-cavity HP. The commercial hollow points aren't true HPs. The bullet on the far right is the so-called "hollow point". Edited September 3, 2009 by m1key Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 it would seem more viable to remove part of the steel jacket tip from the point of a lead solid to make an improvised soft point from those cutaways.... as for the terminal ballistic difference, at probable cost of accuracy or bullet stabilisation, if any......well, its all about tastey animals, anyway, aint it? it would be interesting if it made any difference at all, in a "preferred way". heck, many areas dont let you use below 25-27 caliber in the field for restricted game...... the size and mass of the bullet itself lends me to think in any event the thing will just squish and zip around anyhow, if not just dissapate in a non killing wound (I am talking about tastey animal uses, not combat uses) it might make a decent varmint round, actually...if it worked right Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m1key 7 Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) QUOTE: it might make a decent varmint round, actually...if it worked right Thanks. That's what I was getting at. If someone had time on their hands and wanted to experiment, I think it might be worth looking into. Also, if SHTF (or prolonged ammo shortages) and Wolf FMJ was all you had or could get, you could make it more effective with a simple modification without sacrificing accuracy. Edited September 3, 2009 by m1key Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 i dont think it is simple..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m1key 7 Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Fair enough. Maybe I will give it a try and report back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 I have seen this done, with 7.92x57mm Mauser. I would never do it, but I have seen it done... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK-47 33 Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 It's entirely possible to pull bullets and re-seat them backwards. Reliable feeding may be comprimised, but it is possible, and loaded singly in a hunting situation this would be a pretty simple solution. The commercial lead core FMJ with the exposed lead bottom would be the best bet, it might act similar to a jacketed soft point. (I have no idea how loading backwards would affect the steel core 7N1 Russian stuff.) Most rounds end up base forward when they come to a stop in balistic gel, this means these rounds will yaw less if already loaded backwards; so if they do not expand like a soft point then you will get even less performance than a point forward round. I think it's still worth trying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m1key 7 Posted September 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) Well folks, I gave it a try with several of the Wolf 60gr FMJ. Knocked about .15 inch off the tip with a grinding wheel (cup of water nearby kept tip cool). Cleaned burrs and the (now) hole in the tip with a small file. First tested the FMJ on water-filled 1/2 gallon cardboard milk carton and inverted water-filled coffee cans @20 yards. Not too impressive. Punched an entrance and exit hole through both with minimal disruption of the containers. Looked more like 9mm ball... Then tried hollow points. Absolutely exploded the milk cartons (no exit hole), left nothing but scraps of cardboard and ripped the cans nearly in half length-wise, launching them 20 feet in the air. Definitely better hydrostatic shock effect than FMJ. I will experiment some more...and keep y'all posted. I'll get a few pictures later... Next, I will mike the trimmed bullets OAL for uniformity and test for accuracy at 60 yards. I will also return to the scene of the "crime" to try and recover some of the fired bullets. Gee, this is kinda fun. Like do-it-yourself Box o' Truth. Later, m1key EDIT: Oh yeah, they all fed just fine... Edited September 12, 2009 by m1key Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Nice, thanks for sharing your findings. Next time, you should think about having t-man's mid-action pics, really makes the article Sounds like its time to start making some ballistics gell Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) I'm willing to bet the hollow cavity FMJ is better than HP in every way. Edited September 9, 2009 by Twinsen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m1key 7 Posted September 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 I'm willing to bet the hollow cavity FMJ is better than HP in every way. Pictures: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK-47 33 Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Curious to see how they group. That hollow point looks kinda fragile too, did you single load them or load from the magazines? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m1key 7 Posted September 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) Curious to see how they group. That hollow point looks kinda fragile too, did you single load them or load from the magazines? The hollow point is not particularly fragile. It has a soft STEEL jacket. Takes several seconds on a grinding wheel to mill it down and needs to be cleaned up with a small file. Rounds feed perfectly from my factory mag. closer look: Edited September 10, 2009 by m1key Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Krom 36 Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Holy shit... Looks like tits for a varmint application minus it's not as accurate due to the huge hole in the tip. For two legged deer it might be lacking though, IE insufficient penetration. BTW I'm completely happy with the terminal effects of the FMJ with the hollow tip from what I've read, however I have not go to do my own tests yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 (edited) I have to assume the expansion is the same or worse than the hollow cavity round, as the hollow cavity round is going to go in a bit before expanding, and be larger before and after expansion because there's just more material. I also have to assume that the super wide hollow point will be a very poor penetrator compared to the FMJ. The 5.45 round can penetrate soft materials AND tumble in flesh. Go through armor AND kill the person. With defensive handgun ammo, AKA the only place where hollowpoints are researched thanks to the geneva convention, the idea is to get 12-14" of penetration and as much disruption in that distance as possible. A lot of ball ammo will overpenetrate a human and leave a relatively small wound without much force being transferred to the target. It is entirely possible for a hollow point to open too quickly as well, leaving a very small wound with no terminal damage, just a force transfer, the targets own flesh acting like a bullet proof vest. I say get some ballistics gelatin and find out if they open up too fast. You might find you want a smaller hole, or that this one is perfect, or that what I assume is true, and that a soft point or fmj would do more damage. Or even figuring out a way to fill that hollow with a ballistic tip type substance so that it can penetrate further. Edited September 11, 2009 by Twinsen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m1key 7 Posted September 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Moderators, please delete this thread. Thank you. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Is that a "Hey mods I blew off my fingers and had a relative type this for me" sort of request? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m1key 7 Posted September 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) Is that a "Hey mods I blew off my fingers and had a relative type this for me" sort of request? No. Modification works fine. Thread has apparently generated a "warn status" and if there are safety concerns from the board, well, let's just delete the thread. Edited September 13, 2009 by m1key Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Krom 36 Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Google 'ballistic gel' and make your own, then shoot it and see if how the penetration is. WTF is all this delete/warn this thread BS? I thought this was a free country. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m1key 7 Posted September 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) Google 'ballistic gel' and make your own, then shoot it and see if how the penetration is. WTF is all this delete/warn this thread BS? I thought this was a free country. Yeah, I'm wondering also what "warn status" means... DISCLAIMER: DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME! NOT RESPONSIBLE for bodily harm or injury to anyone or damage to their firearm. This thread is for information purposes only. ******************************************************************************************************************** Now then, next I will try various mediums for penetration and maybe some ballistic gel. FWIW, Wolf 223 75hp bullet also has a bi-metal jacket with an open base and open tip. Edited September 13, 2009 by m1key 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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