Recoil reducing butt stock

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

Anyone ever use one of these before? http://www.israeli-weapons.com/store/butt_stocks/p14.htm

 

Looks like a Tapco (or similar) butt stock with a recoil dampening buffer tube device inside.

 

Cost looks to be about $111.00 for the stock, at The Mako Group

or, about $102.00 with free shipping for the complete stock W/reocil dampner here: http://www.israeli-weapons.com/store/butt_stocks/p9.htm

 

 

Another link about it here: http://www.fab-defense.com/en/category-but...uffer-tube.html

 

On the one link, it looks like you can buy just the tube. Perhaps you can simply modify the existing Tapco stock you have to add this section into it.

 

There is also a youtube video (not long) that shows the action of the stock:

Edited September 6, 2009 by Darth AkSarBen

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

I like the idea a long as it doesnt cause problems with parts count. This along with a muzzle brake would put controllablity on par with a AR while keeping the benefits of the 308.

 

Do let us know.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Rhodes1968

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

Well, Rhodes, that would pose an interesting question. An Israeli buffer tube with a Tapco collapsible rear stock piece. I emailed them with the dimensions of the Tapco T6 stock rear piece. It comes apart fairly easily. One roll pin, knock out, then unscrew the round "nut" and take off the adjustment lever. Put the nut back on and pull all the way down and the rear stock comes completely off the rear of the assembly. It does say "Tapco USA" on the rear. I don't think they list a recoil dampener as one of the imported parts to be concerned with, but if it's an Israeli made stock it probably would not pass.

[MD_Willington 11]

Some one here made a Tapco stock just like that. It was for bump firing though.

[fxhart 14]

Well, Rhodes, that would pose an interesting question. An Israeli buffer tube with a Tapco collapsible rear stock piece. I emailed them with the dimensions of the Tapco T6 stock rear piece. It comes apart fairly easily. One roll pin, knock out, then unscrew the round "nut" and take off the adjustment lever. Put the nut back on and pull all the way down and the rear stock comes completely off the rear of the assembly. It does say "Tapco USA" on the rear. I don't think they list a recoil dampener as one of the imported parts to be concerned with, but if it's an Israeli made stock it probably would not pass.

 

 

There are two sizes of AR collapsible stocks. There's commercial (bigger) and mil-spec (smaller). You just need to find out what the size of the recoil reducing tube is. I believe the Tapco stock is commercial size. Also there is no need to take anything apart to remove the buttstock. Pull on the lever that you would use to adjust the length of the stock and then use a flat head screwdriver and put it in between where the bolt is that goes into the stock and push it down further. The stock should slide right off.

[aresv 49]

Get an Enidine. Better quality, made from aluminum instead of plastic. Made in the USA.

http://tacticalshotgunner.com/enidine-shot...ducer-p-92.html

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

Went to the link on Enidine. It's for a Remington shotgun. Did a search and didn't find any similar componet for any AK or AK derivative. The one at MAKO GROUP in Farmindale, New York looks the best bet at the time.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Darth AkSarBen

[fxhart 14]

Went to the link on Enidine. It's for a Remington shotgun. Did a search and didn't find any similar componet for any AK or AK derivative. The one at MAKO GROUP in Farmindale, New York looks the best bet at the time.

 

 

That one is for an AR adapter. So an AK to AR adapter should work (Ace has a folding one that'll work). I could have sworn I saw an Enidine made for an AK...

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

Went to the link on Enidine. It's for a Remington shotgun. Did a search and didn't find any similar component for any AK or AK derivative. The one at MAKO GROUP in Farmingdale, New York looks the best bet at the time.

 

 

That one is for an AR adapter. So an AK to AR adapter should work (Ace has a folding one that'll work). I could have sworn I saw an Enidine made for an AK...

 

Guess again. That link takes you to TacticalShotgunner.com website and the listing is for a Remington Shotgun. It lists, at the top menu: Top>> Catalog>> Remington>> Stock Sets & Adapters>> where you end up with that Endine "hydraulic" recoil dampener for the Remington Shotgun.

 

I sent an email to FAB, in Israel about the dimensions of the Tapco T6 butt assembly, to see if just the tube would be usable. So, if the dimensions are favorable and one can use this "tube" in the place of the Tapco that comes off the rear tang, WITH the butt stock from the Tapco, would that be considered a butt stock for 922r compliance? It's not really a butt stock by itself, just a dampener. It would not become a butt stock until you add the shoulder piece to it so that the rifle would be 'useful' to fire.

[aresv 49]

Guess again. That link takes you to TacticalShotgunner.com website and the listing is for a Remington Shotgun. It lists, at the top menu: Top>> Catalog>> Remington>> Stock Sets & Adapters>> where you end up with that Endine "hydraulic" recoil dampener for the Remington Shotgun.

 

It's a generic AR receiver extension, mil-spec size. Use it on whatever you want. If you can't figure that out, then I guess you you're not interested in one.

[fxhart 14]

Guess again. That link takes you to TacticalShotgunner.com website and the listing is for a Remington Shotgun. It lists, at the top menu: Top>> Catalog>> Remington>> Stock Sets & Adapters>> where you end up with that Endine "hydraulic" recoil dampener for the Remington Shotgun.

 

 

No guessing involved. That is an AR style receiver extension tube. It's connected to the shotgun via an adapter and it is using a castle nut to hold it on. That will fit an AR to AK adapter no problem.

 

ETA: Here's a link to an article about it.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Tacticool

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

Thanks for the link about the fluid shock absorber. In that article it does state that it can be used on M1, M14, and an AK. One would need some kind of adaptable stock from AK receiver to this. I'm not totally convinced that fluid can totally dampen the overall felt recoil, or at least make 70% of it disappear.

 

 

As far as AR rifles go, I'm sorry, but I have not used an AR rifle very much and as such I'm am unfamiliar with their furniture. I did not recognize it as such since I am ignorant of most things in the AR-15, etc configurations. I just went by the plain nomenclature on the site, not knowing it could also be used on an AR with an adapter. I am unsure of where to even find AR to AK type fittings, and this would be an extra expense? for the butt stock.

 

I'm primarily interested in what fits Saiga and AKs. Finding an AK stock with recoil dampener made in the US would be nice.

 

I read and agree that the laws of physics do not allow the recoil to simply "disappear" with this over a comparable spring loaded design. Energy is energy, and either one has to be diverted, it cannot be done away with at 70%. Besides, the spring loaded one is currently available in AK format, and springs don't change their characteristics when cold as much as fluids do.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Darth AkSarBen

[fxhart 14]

AR's are huge when it comes to accessories. More so than an AK so companies started selling adapters to get AR stuff to fit on just about anything. I could have sworn there was an Enidine specifically for the AK but I must be mistaken.

 

The only AR to AK Adapters that I know about are the Ace Folding Mechanism, Ace CAR15 Stock Block (both require a receiver block) and the one that E-Tac is making that requires welding.

 

These are called receiver extension tubes and the buttstock gets installed on it. I can't see it being counted against you for 922r as long as the buttstock is US made. Of course, I am not a lawyer.

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

Rhodes, (and others), I worked on an idea and seems to be of good merit. I'll post pictures here and let you know how much, if any, difference it has made to the recoil. In feel, it looks very very promising.

 

First picture is the components, which are a 4 3/4" x 1" wide spring, and a 45 cent roll pin, 1/4" dia x 2"

 

 

You will notice the 6 holes in the Tapco T6 stock where the index pin locks in when you move it (release the pin position) via the small lever on the butt stock. I choose my most comfortable position and that is where I would start my modification. In this case it is 2nd hole from the butt end.

 

Next picture you will see that I have drilled a new indentation int he FRONT of the 5th hole (if you count the 6th hole the furtherst back position). I got it a little deeper than I wanted, so it drilled right into the center of the tube. I used a rotary file on my Dremmel and worked the hole so that it is now a slot. Without a spring it would be kind of loose, but with a spring it is tight to the REAR of the slot, nearest the 6th hole. Don't go too far, or you will take away too much material closest to the 4th hole ( or which ever hole is next in line for you in your "favorite" position.

 

Drill a hole from the top of the rear butt stock near where the end of the hole is, and down though the material in the middle of the stock. I used a 1/4" drill bit and put in a 1/4" roll pin that is 2" long in that hole. This is to create a stop for the spring. Otherwise, it would push against the rubber end butt pad and push it off.

 

 

Next you insert the spring inside of the tube on the butt end. It will fit all the way down inside, and come to rest against that roll pin.

 

Inside the tube:

 

To assemble and disassemble, you pull up on the adjustment lever when it is in the furthest most rear position and it simply slides right off the center post that has the holes in it for indexing. Simply put it back on by holding the lever OUT and pushing it on. Brace the rifle against the floor and push down on the butt stock and when it's in that longer cut "SLOT" release the indexing handle and now you have it.

 

I now have a bit of travel when the rifle fires and is somewhat buffered by the spring. I will see tomorrow how effective it really is. My rifle will now "bounce" if you drop it on the floor, butt first. Of course it should be absolutely understood: YOU WILL VOID YOUR TAPCO WARRANTY if you modify this stock this way. So don't send it back to them because it is not working right for you. You change it, you live with it.

Edited September 9, 2009 by Darth AkSarBen

[SOPMOD 254]

It sounds like a great idea but be sure that your weapon maintains positive ejection because soaking the recoil impulse can lessen ejection forces or even cause a short stroke malfunction in many weapons.

 

I have not noticed my S308 being a very had kicking weapon when I mount it properly but ideally a recoiless and comfy weapon would lend itself to faster follow up shots.

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

Well, will try today and let you all know. It should work. The link at the first post above goes to an Israeli site that have them. I know one thing. Israel is one to be foremost in their use and deployment of modern weaponology. They know their stuff. They ship world wide, and, while some things might be gimmicks (and there are TONS of them) some might be very useful.

 

The recoil of the action is within the confines of the firearms itself, and should be unaffected by the stopping of the shoulder or other hard object. One can fire "from the hip" and it will still function, even though the shoulder is not there to hold the rifle solid. My opinion, I think the rifle would function if suspended in air with ropes. The whole weight of the rifle has to be moved by the inertia force of the firing round. But, as I often say, "proof of the pudding is in the eating". Later today I will test and report back. My backyard IS my range, and even though I have been known to fire at night a lot with a pistol, shooting the .308 at night might get the neighbors to the west of me wondering. They only live about 300-400 yards away.

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

Well, I went out this morning and shot it extensively. Same reliability. Loads and ejects rounds like before. And, the recoil is reduced! Kind of reminds me of shooting the 7.62 x 39 Soviet round. Very nice on the shoulder and getting back on target again.

[cscharlie 107]

Endine makes the "shot stock". It has an aluminum tube. I believe they offer both commercial and military sizes. It does not use fluid, it uses a big spring even though their advertising uses the same language as they do for their fluid type buffer for the AR15. It screws into a reciever adapter for an AK just like a M4 stock extension tube. The S-12 uses the same reciever block and adapters as the S-308...

 

There are some posts on here people using them on shotguns. One was warrior judge.

 

I'm not sure I would buy anything through botach tacticle, as it seems to be a roll of the dice, but they have them on their website for reference.

Edited September 9, 2009 by cscharlie

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

More shooting this late afternoon. Very very comfortable shooting. I shot some Winchester 180gr Power Point bullets and it was good. They seem to group out on the targets well, and there is indication that they are well stabilized as the holes in the target are uniformly round with a black circle around the perimiter of the hole, as compared to the Remington UMC I shot that let a hole but more ragged than the "cut" left by the Winchester ammo.

 

Would be nice to see it in slow motion to see the recoil. But, I can honestly say this, it really helps.

[Zoub 0]

Wow, I am compelled to post in this thread. TSG and AkSarBen in the same post!!!

 

Just to help clarify the picture shows the enidine with a Mesa stock adapter. It adapts an 870 to an AR stock configuration. I have put many rounds through the gun shown in the link in all seasons. The enidine works and is tough as nails. So any AK to AR stock adapter would work with the enidine.

 

As a life long member of the royal order of AkSarBen (I have the pin to prove it), if you need some help let me know, maybe I can get you a break on the enidine price if you ever want it. I have considered this with my Saiga but it is a low priority project for me. I thought an AR stock with cheek riser and enidine might be sweet since mine is scoped. Maybe a kickeez recoil pad too but the gun shoots good for me as is.

 

As for "fluids", understand Mercury has been used for 50+ years to reduce recoil in shotguns and it also works very well.

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

I have not noticed my S308 being a very had kicking weapon when I mount it properly but ideally a recoilless and comfy weapon would lend itself to faster follow up shots.

 

Recoil, was one of the reasons that the M16 was used for our military. There are a host of reasons, but one of the criteria was that it's recoil was mild, especially compared to the M-14 in .308 and the M1 in 30-06, and especially the latter. On the one series of No.1 Rifles, the AK-47 came in #1, the M-16 came in #2. And there was the FN-FAL in .308 that came in at #5 position, which one of the reasons was the recoil of this rifle. If you can shoot without something backing up at you, and thinking about it on a target range, or as a sniper situation, there is a better chance you won't flinch and muck the shot. I used to own a .338 Winchester Magnum, and shot it a lot when living in Seattle and back in Nebraska. It was NOT your bench rest rifle.. LOL After a while of shooting, you became very aware that when you squeezed that trigger, it was going to back up at you. In hunting I never noticed. And in battle one would never notice either. But if you were on the range, you might notice, as there would be the lack of the adrenaline "rush" that would make you forget it anyway.

 

A lot of people will never mind the .308, and there are some that think the 7.62 x 39 Soviet is a bit much. I think the Soviets developed that round with a few things in mind. Bullet weight and effectiveness and the lack of any discernible recoil.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I've done the bump stock mod like this before too.

I've also been installing mercury recoil reducers in Tapco collapsing stocks (and others) for awhile now. They add a very nice heft to the stock, giving the weapon better balance, and are effective at recoil reduction when used on shotguns. The Saiga rifles have a very mild recoil compared to them, so it would work great in this application. They could possibly even be used in conjunction with a spring mod like this. There is enough room in the tube for both (with a shorter spring).

[Zoub 0]

I've done the bump stock mod like this before too.

I've also been installing mercury recoil reducers in Tapco collapsing stocks (and others) for awhile now. They add a very nice heft to the stock, giving the weapon better balance, and are effective at recoil reduction when used on shotguns. The Saiga rifles have a very mild recoil compared to them, so it would work great in this application. They could possibly even be used in conjunction with a spring mod like this. There is enough room in the tube for both (with a shorter spring).

That answers a few questions I had in the back of my mind last night after reading this thread.

 

Nothing wrong with a soft recoiling, hard hitting .308.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Zoub

[gpqueen 545]

I've done the bump stock mod like this before too.

I've also been installing mercury recoil reducers in Tapco collapsing stocks (and others) for awhile now. They add a very nice heft to the stock, giving the weapon better balance, and are effective at recoil reduction when used on shotguns. The Saiga rifles have a very mild recoil compared to them, so it would work great in this application. They could possibly even be used in conjunction with a spring mod like this. There is enough room in the tube for both (with a shorter spring).

I have shot both types and I believe Cobra's mod is the better of the 2. It has a much better feel to it. He can mod either your rifle or shotgun stock.

[netpackrat 566]

Some one here made a Tapco stock just like that. It was for bump firing though.

 

In light of what happened with the Akins Accelerator, that seems foolish.

 

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/dec/18/21...leads-him-ruin/

[notofnow 5]

I know this may be a stupid question but so you made your own with a tapco collapsible or did you purchase the israeli one and added to the tapco?

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

I made my own with the $2.00 spring. Modified the Tapco stock so that it would have some small distance for the recoil. And, it works very well at reducing the recoil.

 

See post #14 of this thread for pictures.

Edited September 13, 2009 by Darth AkSarBen

[notofnow 5]

Has anybody tried these?

 

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/AK-47-6-position-Stock-Black.aspx?a=556307&kwtid=307145

 

http://www.zahal.org/FAB/SBT-AK47.html

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

I like the looks of the one at www.sportsman.com link. The other link would not open up. It looks like the recoil is in the front part of the stock and in that way all the hole positions would be available. Actually a very nice idea, and better off on an engineering standpoint. Mine is just "fix it now, cheap!".. LOL

[SomethingEZ 5]

HOLY CRAP!!!!!! These recoil absorbing stocks are amazing!!!!!!! The .308 doesnt kick any where near as hard as the x39. Im using the Mako and i am converting everything over to these. I am thinking i may be able to see every bullet hit through the scope now.