5.45x39 Scout / Recon Rifle

[RoughRider666 47]

hey All,

 

I just got my 5.45 the other day! Since i already have an x39, i was thinking about making a Scout / Recon rifle with this one. Leave the sporter butt stock, but put forward mounted rails and optics. Cant decide between a Holosite or an actual Scope of some kind. Kind of an M1A Scout Rifle type configuration. What would you guys recommend as far as Rails, optics, etc... This rifles primary use is going to be for small Varmints & Coyotes and i'd like fast optics for it.

 

one more question though...what is the max effective range on the 5.45 round for max effectiveness?

[ARCANGEL 1]

I know that burris make a great scout type scope and the price was pretty decent I used to have one on my M1A, I don't recall the exact model.I do remember that it was 2-7X32

 

Regarding the mount you can check the ultimak mount ,but I am not sure if the saiga model will fit your rifle.

 

ETA:the max. effective range of the 5.45 IIRC is between 400 to 500 range depending on the conditions .

but the scout configuration is exactly what you are looking for a handy carbine with a fast and effective

target acquisition capabilities.

Edited September 13, 2009 by REDCELL

[TX-Zen 287]

hey All,

 

I just got my 5.45 the other day! Since i already have an x39, i was thinking about making a Scout / Recon rifle with this one. Leave the sporter butt stock, but put forward mounted rails and optics. Cant decide between a Holosite or an actual Scope of some kind. Kind of an M1A Scout Rifle type configuration. What would you guys recommend as far as Rails, optics, etc... This rifles primary use is going to be for small Varmints & Coyotes and i'd like fast optics for it.

 

one more question though...what is the max effective range on the 5.45 round for max effectiveness?

 

 

 

I prefer the Ultimak with a Konus red dot like I have pictured here on my SLR105 (an Aimpoint micro will get you the same results). You should be able to use an Ultimak on a Saiga because regular AK gas tubes fit just fine.

As for effective range, today at 300 yards with this exact setup I was hitting a half man size steel plate 90%+ of the time with rapid fire, about 1 round per 3/4 second with almost no pause between trigger pulls.

I seriously mean quick trigger pulls, just enough time to let it reset before pulling again. I ran through 4 mags like this.

 

You should have no problem hitting a coyote at 300 yards with a good zero.

 

ETA to fix a typo on hit percentage, didn't mean to say 100%, my bad. It was about 105 or 107 out of 120 rounds.

 

Edited September 14, 2009 by TX-Zen

[RoughRider666 47]

hey All,

 

I just got my 5.45 the other day! Since i already have an x39, i was thinking about making a Scout / Recon rifle with this one. Leave the sporter butt stock, but put forward mounted rails and optics. Cant decide between a Holosite or an actual Scope of some kind. Kind of an M1A Scout Rifle type configuration. What would you guys recommend as far as Rails, optics, etc... This rifles primary use is going to be for small Varmints & Coyotes and i'd like fast optics for it.

 

one more question though...what is the max effective range on the 5.45 round for max effectiveness?

 

 

I prefer the Ultimak with a Konus red dot like I have pictured here on my SLR105 (an Aimpoint micro will get you the same results). You should be able to use an Ultimak on a Saiga because regular AK gas tubes fit just fine.

As for effective range, today at 300 yards with this exact setup I was hitting a half man size steel plate 100% of the time with rapid fire, about 1 round per 3/4 second with almost no pause between trigger pulls.

I seriously mean quick trigger pulls, just enough time to let it reset before pulling again. I ran through 2 mags like this.

 

You should have no problem hitting a coyote at 300 yards with a good zero.

 

 

 

Thats what i like to hear! but another thing im wondering about this particular semi-auto action: Is this gun / round accurate enough to hunt ground squirrels at a considerable distance with? I am an AVID shooter of a bolt action 17HMR and i can hit squirrels at nearly 300 yards with pinpoint accuracy. I know they are 2 totally separate rounds, but im just trying to get a rough feel for the 545 since I am pretty new to the cartridge.

[TX-Zen 287]

No, squirrels at 300 is out of the SGL31's league. You might get hits but I wouldn't rely on it. Coyotes yes but squirrels I think are just way too small.

 

The 5.45 out of a bolt gun on the other hand probably could hit squirrels at that distance. I know the East Germans made at lease one kind of 5.45 target rifle for border guards along the wall and it was supposed to be extremely accurate.

[RoughRider666 47]

No, squirrels at 300 is out of the SGL31's league. You might get hits but I wouldn't rely on it. Coyotes yes but squirrels I think are just way too small.

 

The 5.45 out of a bolt gun on the other hand probably could hit squirrels at that distance. I know the East Germans made at lease one kind of 5.45 target rifle for border guards along the wall and it was supposed to be extremely accurate.

 

SO, what kinda Optics / Dot Scopes would you recommend to do what i wanna do?

[Krom 36]

I just put a NCstar 2.5x pistol/extended eye relief scope on my .223. I have not fired it yet but I'm really pleased with how it mounted up and how quick and easy it is to see the crosshairs.

 

It seems alittle off to me to spend alot on a optic for a knock around rifle that you will probably shoot corrosive ammo out of.

 

They have some NCstar extended eye relief scopes at opticsplanet for ~$35-80 depending on which model.

 

I just put a NCstar 2.5x pistol/extended eye relief scope on my .223. I have not fired it yet but I'm really pleased with how it mounted up and how quick and easy it is to see the crosshairs.

 

It seems alittle off to me to spend alot on a optic for a knock around rifle that you will probably shoot corrosive ammo out of.

 

They have some NCstar extended eye relief scopes at opticsplanet for ~$35-80 depending on which model.

[RoughRider666 47]

I just put a NCstar 2.5x pistol/extended eye relief scope on my .223. I have not fired it yet but I'm really pleased with how it mounted up and how quick and easy it is to see the crosshairs.

 

It seems alittle off to me to spend alot on a optic for a knock around rifle that you will probably shoot corrosive ammo out of.

 

They have some NCstar extended eye relief scopes at opticsplanet for ~$35-80 depending on which model.

 

I just put a NCstar 2.5x pistol/extended eye relief scope on my .223. I have not fired it yet but I'm really pleased with how it mounted up and how quick and easy it is to see the crosshairs.

 

It seems alittle off to me to spend alot on a optic for a knock around rifle that you will probably shoot corrosive ammo out of.

 

They have some NCstar extended eye relief scopes at opticsplanet for ~$35-80 depending on which model.

 

yeah, i was looking at those NcStar Scout scopes for about $65.00 and i was thinking the same way you are about the knock around gun theory as well...ill probably just go with one of those. No sense ruining a good Leupold, ya know?

[TX-Zen 287]

If it were me shooting at squirrels with my SGL31 I'd use my PO 3.5x21P because it's a nice scope with a great FOV. They are rare though, so failing that I would use a POSP 4x24 and zero it for 300 yards. I doubt you could consistently hit such a small target but (at the risk of sounding inhumane or getting peta on my ass) I think it would be a lot of fun to try, sort of like shooting prairie dogs if you're into that.

 

I suspect from a rest the SGL31 might have a real chance to shoot an honest 2-3 MOA, which would give you about 6-9 inch dispersion at 300...maybe a 50/50 chance against a squirrel I guess, on a good day.

 

I'd also go with a POSP over an NCStar anyday of the week. Yes NCStar makes fair budget optics but for $125ish the POSP 4x24 gives you a combat proven Russian scope that has seen widespread use in the military...not a bad deal at all. I have an NCStar spotting scope and it's fine but I've had a couple different model 3-9x scopes and neither would hold zero for squat. They aren't the worst scopes out there but they are definately not that great and personally I think they are marginal even for plinking. Russian POSP's are undervalued for the quality you get and while they certainly aren't Leupold type optical clarity they are tough, clear and can take a nice helping of abuse. For the money I don't think they can be beat, but if money is no object there are better choices on the high end.

 

 

 

 

 

Z

[RoughRider666 47]

If it were me shooting at squirrels with my SGL31 I'd use my PO 3.5x21P because it's a nice scope with a great FOV. They are rare though, so failing that I would use a POSP 4x24 and zero it for 300 yards. I doubt you could consistently hit such a small target but (at the risk of sounding inhumane or getting peta on my ass) I think it would be a lot of fun to try, sort of like shooting prairie dogs if you're into that.

 

I suspect from a rest the SGL31 might have a real chance to shoot an honest 2-3 MOA, which would give you about 6-9 inch dispersion at 300...maybe a 50/50 chance against a squirrel I guess, on a good day.

 

I'd also go with a POSP over an NCStar anyday of the week. Yes NCStar makes fair budget optics but for $125ish the POSP 4x24 gives you a combat proven Russian scope that has seen widespread use in the military...not a bad deal at all. I have an NCStar spotting scope and it's fine but I've had a couple different model 3-9x scopes and neither would hold zero for squat. They aren't the worst scopes out there but they are definately not that great and personally I think they are marginal even for plinking. Russian POSP's are undervalued for the quality you get and while they certainly aren't Leupold type optical clarity they are tough, clear and can take a nice helping of abuse. For the money I don't think they can be beat, but if money is no object there are better choices on the high end.

 

 

 

 

 

Z

 

Thanks Man,

 

that of one of the most honest and sincere replies i have gotten yet and i really appriciate that. Now, where can i find one of these POSP's you are referring to, and how much do they usually run? Is this a Dragunov style scope? i have alway wanted one of those!

[superA 289]

hey All,

 

I just got my 5.45 the other day! Since i already have an x39, i was thinking about making a Scout / Recon rifle with this one. Leave the sporter butt stock, but put forward mounted rails and optics. Cant decide between a Holosite or an actual Scope of some kind. Kind of an M1A Scout Rifle type configuration. What would you guys recommend as far as Rails, optics, etc... This rifles primary use is going to be for small Varmints & Coyotes and i'd like fast optics for it.

 

one more question though...what is the max effective range on the 5.45 round for max effectiveness?

 

 

 

I prefer the Ultimak with a Konus red dot like I have pictured here on my SLR105 (an Aimpoint micro will get you the same results). You should be able to use an Ultimak on a Saiga because regular AK gas tubes fit just fine.

As for effective range, today at 300 yards with this exact setup I was hitting a half man size steel plate 90%+ of the time with rapid fire, about 1 round per 3/4 second with almost no pause between trigger pulls.

I seriously mean quick trigger pulls, just enough time to let it reset before pulling again. I ran through 4 mags like this.

 

You should have no problem hitting a coyote at 300 yards with a good zero.

 

ETA to fix a typo on hit percentage, didn't mean to say 100%, my bad. It was about 105 or 107 out of 120 rounds.

 

 

 

 

 

What did you use to mount the light to the side like that?

[TX-Zen 287]

That's a Vltor offset scount mount, it gives a nice position to thumb activate the G2 light. You can find them around for about $60 but they can be somewhat hard to find, not everyone has them in stock.

 

 

Better pics of the mount:

 

 

 

And how it sits off to the left on the 105:

 

 

 

 

RR,

 

Yes the POSP is a Dragunov scope. They come in two mount varieties which is important to fitting your rifle. SVD/SKD mount which has the locking lever on the top and AK mount which has the lever on the bottom (and is taller to clear the higher receiver of the AK). Some SVD mounts are tall enough to clear an AK receiver cover but it's best to just get an AK mount which should also let you use your irons while the scope is mounted.

 

They run $125ish used and $160-200+ new depending on what kind you get. There are actually dozens of variants...4x24, 2.5-5x24, 6x24 and the obviously larger 8x42's to name a few. Eastwave on Ebay usually has them for less then $200, Kalinka has them for a range of prices (nothing particularly cheap though) and you can google a few other places. If you stick with the no frills 4x24 AK mount you ought to be able to pick one relatively cheap if you don't mind a used optic. They are tough so personally I wouldn't have a problem buying used, but you have to decide for yourself.

 

Here's a pic of one mounted to an AK (note the locking lever on the bottom and the height of the scope over the receiver)

 

 

 

 

 

Z

Edited September 18, 2009 by TX-Zen

[superA 289]

Thanks TX-Zen. I have been struggling with a choice on an optics/light set up. I have the HK sights so the low profile mount on the back won't fit and I really didn't want a quad rail, they look a little too cluttered for my tastes. Looks like the Ultimak gas tube and the Vltor offset scope mount is what I have been looking for.

[RoughRider666 47]

That's a Vltor offset scount mount, it gives a nice position to thumb activate the G2 light. You can find them around for about $60 but they can be somewhat hard to find, not everyone has them in stock.

 

 

Better pics of the mount:

 

 

 

And how it sits off to the left on the 105:

 

 

 

RR,

 

Yes the POSP is a Dragunov scope. They come in two mount varieties which is important to fitting your rifle. SVD/SKD mount which has the locking lever on the top and AK mount which has the lever on the bottom (and is taller to clear the higher receiver of the AK). Some SVD mounts are tall enough to clear an AK receiver cover but it's best to just get an AK mount which should also let you use your irons while the scope is mounted.

 

They run $125ish used and $160-200+ new depending on what kind you get. There are actually dozens of variants...4x24, 2.5-5x24, 6x24 and the obviously larger 8x42's to name a few. Eastwave on Ebay usually has them for less then $200, Kalinka has them for a range of prices (nothing particularly cheap though) and you can google a few other places. If you stick with the no frills 4x24 AK mount you ought to be able to pick one relatively cheap if you don't mind a used optic. They are tough so personally I wouldn't have a problem buying used, but you have to decide for yourself.

 

Here's a pic of one mounted to an AK (note the locking lever on the bottom and the height of the scope over the receiver)

 

 

 

 

 

Z

 

How do you sight these scopes in? Is there any trick to it? im used to my good ol' fashioned leupold scopes...lol the dials look the same, but with that reticle, things look a bit confusing...lol

Edited September 20, 2009 by RoughRider666

[TX-Zen 287]

Don't let the busy reticule pattern throw you off, to zero it's pretty darn simple.

 

There's a lengthy official Russian process you can go through, but I find it's easier just to aim the reticule at center mass and then move the reticule to point of impact where your shots are grouping. Once you feel the rifle is dropping them all into the same cluster everytime you loosen the little screws on top and slip the silver drum back to 1 and 0 (assuming you zeroed at 100 meters, 100 yards is close enough), tighten the screws and you're done.

 

If the scope is relatively on it's pretty simple but if you need large adjustments to get it on paper it can take longer. I haven't rezeroed my 8x42 that's mounted to my NDM86 in a couple of years and it's still able to hit an 8 inch gong at 300 yards 100% of the time, so the scopes do tend to hold zero well even if you remove them for cleaning.

 

 

 

 

 

Z

[RoughRider666 47]

Don't let the busy reticule pattern throw you off, to zero it's pretty darn simple.

 

There's a lengthy official Russian process you can go through, but I find it's easier just to aim the reticule at center mass and then move the reticule to point of impact where your shots are grouping. Once you feel the rifle is dropping them all into the same cluster everytime you loosen the little screws on top and slip the silver drum back to 1 and 0 (assuming you zeroed at 100 meters, 100 yards is close enough), tighten the screws and you're done.

 

If the scope is relatively on it's pretty simple but if you need large adjustments to get it on paper it can take longer. I haven't rezeroed my 8x42 that's mounted to my NDM86 in a couple of years and it's still able to hit an 8 inch gong at 300 yards 100% of the time, so the scopes do tend to hold zero well even if you remove them for cleaning.

 

 

 

 

 

Z

 

Sounds like zeroing in my Shephard Scope that i have on my .223

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

You might want to steer clear of pistol optics due to the parallax setting of 25/50M for pistols. I tried one on my 308 scout and found problems when getting past 100m. There are a few rifle scout scopes that work better anyway go with one of those.

[RoughRider666 47]

You might want to steer clear of pistol optics due to the parallax setting of 25/50M for pistols. I tried one on my 308 scout and found problems when getting past 100m. There are a few rifle scout scopes that work better anyway go with one of those.

 

yeah i wondered about that a while back. I decided to go with the new NcStar Scout Rifle scope.