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silverphoenix

UTG Rail for Saiga 12 arrived yesterday--report

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Well I had a tough time deciding what rail to get for my saiga--I had tried out a buddy's saiga 12 with the chaos rail at the range and quite frankly, I loved it with the exception of 3 things. For one, you had to knock off/render useless your regular iron sights to use it (which I like fine), for two, it didn't seem to blend the gun together well (purely aesthetics and the least of my reasons for not getting it), and finally--the price. It's a GREAT rail--solid and well made, but $300 for a rail on a $500 gun seemed ridiculous... The price last I checked is in competition with UTG at $100--which is a reasonable price--this made it once again a hard decision between the so called foreign POS and the american made rail.

 

What did I decide? Yeah, I got the UTG to see what all the fuss was about. Just arrived yesterday--one of the first available bought from outdoor bunker for $100.

 

I installed it easily in a matter of minutes--expecting some wobble or imperfections, but this things is SOLID and very well made. Hell I dropped the sucker before I put it on and could swear it would scratch the finish on tile--but it's evidently not the cheap POS it was made out to be. There's not the slightest bit of wiggle or give, it's very light and tough, and it fits well--not a bit of machining or filing needed!

 

So I took it out to the range today, still with reservations--and it worked better than fine! It was solid and after bringing it back, had not a single scratch on it or bolt/screw marring at all.

 

Only time will tell, but this UTG rail is fantastic and I would highly recommend it.

 

Uh oh--I think I see people with pitchforks and torches in the distance! =)

 

DSCI0095.jpg

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DSCI0097.jpg

DSCI0098.jpg

 

Coming soon, chaos warthog brake, gogun self cleaning twister puck and Beretta folding pistol grip for forearm.

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Well I had a tough time deciding what rail to get for my saiga--I had tried out a buddy's saiga 12 with the chaos rail at the range and quite frankly, I loved it with the exception of 3 things. For one, you had to knock off/render useless your regular iron sights to use it (which I like fine), for two, it didn't seem to blend the gun together well (purely aesthetics and the least of my reasons for not getting it), and finally--the price. It's a GREAT rail--solid and well made, but $300 for a rail on a $500 gun seemed ridiculous... The price last I checked is in competition with UTG at $100--which is a reasonable price--this made it once again a hard decision between the so called foreign POS and the american made rail.

 

What did I decide? Yeah, I got the UTG to see what all the fuss was about. Just arrived yesterday--one of the first available bought from outdoor bunker for $100.

 

I installed it easily in a matter of minutes--expecting some wobble or imperfections, but this things is SOLID and very well made. Hell I dropped the sucker before I put it on and could swear it would scratch the finish on tile--but it's evidently not the cheap POS it was made out to be. There's not the slightest bit of wiggle or give, it's very light and tough, and it fits well--not a bit of machining or filing needed!

 

So I took it out to the range today, still with reservations--and it worked better than fine! It was solid and after bringing it back, had not a single scratch on it or bolt/screw marring at all.

 

Only time will tell, but this UTG rail is fantastic and I would highly recommend it.

 

Uh oh--I think I see people with pitchforks and torches in the distance! =)

 

DSCI0095.jpg

DSCI0096.jpg

DSCI0097.jpg

DSCI0098.jpg

 

Coming soon, chaos warthog brake, gogun self cleaning twister puck and Beretta folding pistol grip for forearm.

 

 

I'm happy you like it. How's the weight? I can imagine it would add quite a bit of weight with a rail that long.

 

Cool man, before you do anything else though, get rid of those UTG rail covers and buy different ones, my friend has those UTG covers and after some use, they start to get soft and fall off.

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Cool man, before you do anything else though, get rid of those UTG rail covers and buy different ones, my friend has those UTG covers and after some use, they start to get soft and fall off.

I'm sure the UTG covers are of the same quality as a the rail, and the two will go together great... :ph34r:

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Well, I'm glad you like it, silverphoenix, since it's on your gun.

 

I remain unimpressed, especially since you paid $100 for it, that's no cheaper than a superior American product, (Chaos)!

 

Also, it's just mho of course, but I think your priorities are a little screwed up.

 

First, properly convert restore your S-12, then worry about shit like a "brake", a replacement gas puck, fvg, etc.

Edited by post-apocalyptic
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Well, I'm glad you like it, silverphoenix, since it's on your gun.

 

I remain unimpressed, especially since you paid $100 for it, that's no cheaper than a superior American product, (Chaos)!

 

Also, it's just mho of course, but I think your priorities are a little screwed up.

 

First, properly convert restore your S-12, then worry about shit like a "brake", a replacement gas puck, fvg, etc.

 

Wow the mob is coming after you haha. There are a couple good points here however.

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Well, I'm glad you like it, silverphoenix, since it's on your gun.

 

I remain unimpressed, especially since you paid $100 for it, that's no cheaper than a superior American product, (Chaos)!

 

Also, it's just mho of course, but I think your priorities are a little screwed up.

 

First, properly convert restore your S-12, then worry about shit like a "brake", a replacement gas puck, fvg, etc.

 

Wow the mob is coming after you haha. There are a couple good points here however.

 

Damn straight I have some good points. :D I definitely minced my words on the subject, since I recognize that no matter how much I may not like a part/setup, some do, (for some odd reason that defies rational explanation). I am curious to see what Cameron's reaction will be, however! It should be entertaining, to say the least. :lol:

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Damn straight I have some good points. :D I definitely minced my words on the subject, since I recognize that no matter how much I may not like a part/setup, some do, (for some odd reason that defies rational explanation). I am curious to see what Cameron's reaction will be, however! It should be entertaining, to say the least. :lol:

As much as I may have agreed with some of the points he made, I'm hoping he takes the time it would take to react to any of this, and dumps it into more american parts for those who apreciate them.

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Glad you like it silver, it took some cajones to post this up after that last utg rail thread which I'm sure you read!

 

Not bashing your rail but just wanted to know:

How is the weight on the whole thing?

And how is that rail which extends back, does it 'flap' at all or is it pretty solid?....did you get a chance to put any optic on that to see if holds zero on that part of the rail?

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Damn straight I have some good points. :D I definitely minced my words on the subject, since I recognize that no matter how much I may not like a part/setup, some do, (for some odd reason that defies rational explanation). I am curious to see what Cameron's reaction will be, however! It should be entertaining, to say the least. :lol:

As much as I may have agreed with some of the points he made, I'm hoping he takes the time it would take to react to any of this, and dumps it into more american parts for those who apreciate them.

 

Well said, nailbomb. I've got a Kross FLTR, (great quality), and am waiting on Chaos quad and tri rails, (ordered at the end of July). All of these hand guards are of far better quality than UTG parts, imo.

 

Anyway, this kind of thing just pisses Cameron off, (which is understandable), so I hope he manages to ignore it and just concentrates on getting more orders for Chaos products shipped, (especially mine :D )!!!!

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Yeah I know there's the whole bad karma about sending money to the commie's, but it has been brought up that this is a Russian gun. I would like to point out that while I would love to spend my $$$ on American made things, sometimes you can only get what you want from foreign makers. Don't forget the Russians had their fingers on the big red button during the cold war and had all those nukes pointed straight at us--if someone doesn't have qualm's with the gun, why the rail?

 

It's surprisingly light--as light as the chaos rail I dare say, though the one with it that I handled was converted. Even the extended part of the rail is solid as stone--I tried to flex it and it won't give a bit. The aluminum is a good quality surprisingly.

 

Don't shoot me for this, but I also like it unconverted--to me it's not worth the extra $$$ for the little bit of improvement it offers--this is MHO.

 

No offense to Cameron, his rails are great and I can attest to that--his rail is probably better made. But I really do like this one and there's no American manufacturer who makes it--so what am I supposed to do? Does everyone drive an American made car? Get American made toys for their kids? Eat food only from the USA? Some things you just can't get here and it's a shame...

 

Anyways, I will be getting my chaos warthog brake soon since that is the best to my liking :smoke:

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Yeah I know there's the whole bad karma about sending money to the commie's, but it has been brought up that this is a Russian gun. I would like to point out that while I would love to spend my $$$ on American made things, sometimes you can only get what you want from foreign makers. Don't forget the Russians had their fingers on the big red button during the cold war and had all those nukes pointed straight at us--if someone doesn't have qualm's with the gun, why the rail?

 

It's surprisingly light--as light as the chaos rail I dare say, though the one with it that I handled was converted. Even the extended part of the rail is solid as stone--I tried to flex it and it won't give a bit. The aluminum is a good quality surprisingly.

 

Don't shoot me for this, but I also like it unconverted--to me it's not worth the extra $$$ for the little bit of improvement it offers--this is MHO.

 

No offense to Cameron, his rails are great and I can attest to that--his rail is probably better made. But I really do like this one and there's no American manufacturer who makes it--so what am I supposed to do? Does everyone drive an American made car? Get American made toys for their kids? Eat food only from the USA? Some things you just can't get here and it's a shame...

 

Anyways, I will be getting my chaos warthog brake soon since that is the best to my liking :smoke:

 

 

So what red-dot sight do you have on order? Without one of those, it looks to me like the UTG quad-rail makes your S-12 kind of hard to accurately aim.

 

Just FYI, Cameron is currently making a top-rail that will be similar to the extended top UTG rail, and will fit all Chaos tri/quad-rail hand guards.

 

As for the question of whether or not to convert restore your S-12, there's no debate. Restoring a S-12 to use a pistol grip in the correct location and a proper AK triggergroup makes a huge difference. The ergonomics and ease-of-use for the entire weapon vastly improve. Go shoot another properly restored S-12 alongside your S-12 and come back and tell us it only offers a "little bit of improvement".

 

First you restore your gun, then you hang cool shit on it. :smoke:

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I didn't know Cameron was making a top rail that could be used with the irons--if he had one out right now at the same price, I probably would have taken that over the UTG.

 

I shot the saiga with the rail and it's very accurate (well for a shotgun haha)--the rail in no way interferes with your aim. I have a Burris Fastfire red dot sight that I'll be moving off of my AR-10 onto my Saiga after I can get the scope for the AR (which will cost around a grand). For now the irons work great.

 

As for the conversion, yeah I've shot one converted and I still think the improvement/restoration is not worth the $$$ and trouble. This is my opinion of course, but the way I see it, a round from an unconverted saiga 12 is just as deadly as a round from a converted one. Those feral hogs I'll be going after next month won't be able to tell the difference :D

Edited by silverphoenix
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I'm glad to read that you are very happy with the Rail, and the configuration of YOUR gun.

Thanks for sharing your impressions of your equipment.It may make someone elses buying decision a little easier.

 

If you are happy with what you have that's ALL that matters.

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As for the conversion, yeah I've shot one converted and I still think the improvement/restoration is not worth the $$$ and trouble. This is my opinion of course, but the way I see it, a round from an unconverted saiga 12 is just as deadly as a round from a converted one. Those feral hogs I'll be going after next month won't be able to tell the difference :D

 

Sell the Tapco aborted stock grip thing, get a grip and stock, find a FCG (Hell, use the cheap russian AK one, about what I'm planning to do.) and Bob is your uncle.

 

Most expensive thing is the stock, the hardest thing seems to be dremeling the trigger guard off, or you can pick up one of the lovely bolt on thingy mcbobbers. (I personally would go with Cobra's)

 

Since you are replacing all the 922 crap anyways and keeping the russian FCG, why not? You spend around 20-30 bucks more, depending on what you buy, and you get a much better looking and better working weapon.

 

IMHO, I can't stand the way it looks with that Tapco grip/stock thing, it looks stretched out, nor do I trust the collapsing stock with recoil or the need to smack someone upside the head with it.

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I'm very happy with this configuration---The rest of the parts I'm getting will all be American made in order to be 922r compliant.

 

And I paid the same price for my UTG as for the chaos rail actually. They used to be $300 (well says $265 $99.95 on the site now), then dropped down to $150 or so, and now they are $100 ever since the UTG rail came out. I nearly got the Chaos because it came into my price range as well--if, at that price, the top rail was hollow to allow use of the irons and if the top rail extended back over the receiver cover as the UTG, I would have gotten the chaos instead since it is American made and quality assured.

 

Regardless, I kid you not--find someone with a UTG, try it out, and you'll be extremely surprised how solid, fitting, and well made the forearm is. You'll also see how there is 0 wobble in the extended free floating rail over the receiver, how it's easy to take the cover off with the rail on, and how easy it is to use the factory irons with the rail. I honestly was expecting a lot less, but got a lot more.

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I am not taking sides.

 

I did notice on my UTG AR free float that Outers gun cleaning foam completely discolored the finish of my rail (seeped out of the gas tube). It cost about $60 (almost half of a Yankee Hill - which I also own and would buy again). Lesson Learned: Be careful with cleaning solvents around the UTG.

 

If I were to buy a S12 railed fore-end today, it would be a Chaos because I really like Cameron and what he has done for and on this forum. That's worth a few extra bucks to me, but when you don't have those extra bucks, I do understand.

 

To each his own as far as priorities go. I remember how daunting doing my own "conversion/restoration" was several years ago. When it is a choice between doing it yourself and potentially screwing up your most valued weapon, or paying someone over $150 plus parts, it is tough to not take the piece by piece drop-in method and get the stuff that you want to make it "your way".

Edited by BuffetDestroyer
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Like others have said, the important part is you like it.

 

I have not been impressed with UTG products, and I think $100 is a bit high for the rail when you can get other quality rails for about the same price.

 

As for moving your trigger group forward, it's really not that hard, I used a tromix DIY kit and I could not be happier.

Recently I added a MAA internal adapter (easy install, I just used a hacksaw to take the tang off) and that filled up the two holes on each side then an ACE side folder adapter, and the MAA stock.

And now it fits into my M4 rifle case, nice because its a short case that does not scream rifle.

 

The gun handles great, moving the trigger gaurd forward helps the trigger pull, and makes the front feel lighter.

Also installing the US made trigger group does a bunch for 922r, I really doubt your good with 922r in your setup, but I doubt anything will ever come of it.

 

I'm really not trying to be an asshole, I just want to point out a few things. :angel:

 

But I did some weird stuff with my first gun when I was 19 (SKS) I put a bunch of the tapco corny stuff on it and I loved it to death. :super: (It was not 922r compliant)

Later I put the orig stock on it, and I found I liked it better than the cheesy tapco folding stock.

almost a year ago I sold it off to a guy with all of the tapco stuff in a box to go along with it to fund my S12 project, he loved the tapco stuff, I let him know about 922r (nobody ever told me till years later) but the first thing he did was put the tapco stuff back on it. :rolleyes:

 

If your happy with it, then by all means keep it like that until you want a change. :clover:

 

And thanks for the little review and the picture, I like seeing what it looks like installed.

I think it would look better with a proper conversion though. :up:

 

And I think that many of us, including my self see a S12 that has a half assed pistol grip conversion and we have to ask why not do it right? :sadam:

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I'm very happy with this configuration---The rest of the parts I'm getting will all be American made in order to be 922r compliant.

 

And I paid the same price for my UTG as for the chaos rail actually. They used to be $300 (well says $265 $99.95 on the site now), then dropped down to $150 or so, and now they are $100 ever since the UTG rail came out. I nearly got the Chaos because it came into my price range as well--if, at that price, the top rail was hollow to allow use of the irons and if the top rail extended back over the receiver cover as the UTG, I would have gotten the chaos instead since it is American made and quality assured.

 

Regardless, I kid you not--find someone with a UTG, try it out, and you'll be extremely surprised how solid, fitting, and well made the forearm is. You'll also see how there is 0 wobble in the extended free floating rail over the receiver, how it's easy to take the cover off with the rail on, and how easy it is to use the factory irons with the rail. I honestly was expecting a lot less, but got a lot more.

Chaos rails are pro level gear for people with demanding conditions who use this weapon as tool, Chaos from the start has been known to build top of the line gear, utg on the other hand has set their bar low and that's where they're at. I did lower my price to sway people away from buying Chinese crap, but you have proven that an American manufacture can give their all by building a better product at the same price or less and you will still buy China. You can't say you couldn't afford to buy a Chaos rail when they go up soon, and they will. You have the right to buy from whomever you want, but when your upset about how the people in power are screwing up this great country and you want to bitch at someone, look straight in the mirror my fellow American and hold the person in the the reflection responsible as well.

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I'm very happy with this configuration---The rest of the parts I'm getting will all be American made in order to be 922r compliant.

 

And I paid the same price for my UTG as for the chaos rail actually. They used to be $300 (well says $265 $99.95 on the site now), then dropped down to $150 or so, and now they are $100 ever since the UTG rail came out. I nearly got the Chaos because it came into my price range as well--if, at that price, the top rail was hollow to allow use of the irons and if the top rail extended back over the receiver cover as the UTG, I would have gotten the chaos instead since it is American made and quality assured.

 

Regardless, I kid you not--find someone with a UTG, try it out, and you'll be extremely surprised how solid, fitting, and well made the forearm is. You'll also see how there is 0 wobble in the extended free floating rail over the receiver, how it's easy to take the cover off with the rail on, and how easy it is to use the factory irons with the rail. I honestly was expecting a lot less, but got a lot more.

Chaos rails are pro level gear for people with demanding conditions who use this weapon as tool, Chaos from the start has been known to build top of the line gear, utg on the other hand has set their bar low and that's where they're at. I did lower my price to sway people away from buying Chinese crap, but you have proven that an American manufacture can give their all by building a better product at the same price or less and you will still buy China. You can't say you couldn't afford to buy a Chaos rail when they go up soon, and they will. You have the right to buy from whomever you want, but when your upset about how the people in power are screwing up this great country and you want to bitch at someone, look straight in the mirror my fellow American and hold the person in the the reflection responsible as well.

 

It's not the same product ...not talking about quality wise but the 2 products differ in options...OP wanted one with see through rails to use the iron sights...the UTG one has that option and the chaos one didn't so he chose utg.

 

Seems rational to me.

 

There's nothing wrong with choosing a product that has the options you want over another which does not regardless of where its made.

 

We all have Saigas instead of a Remy 1187. They are both semi-autos but the Saiga had options the Remy didn't so we chose (or added in addition to) the S12.

 

I'm sure the chaos rails are great, but if they function differently from what someone wants or needs, don't think its fair to blame them for choosing a different product which does meet their particular needs.

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Chaos rails are pro level gear for people with demanding conditions who use this weapon as tool, Chaos from the start has been known to build top of the line gear, utg on the other hand has set their bar low and that's where they're at. I did lower my price to sway people away from buying Chinese crap, but you have proven that an American manufacture can give their all by building a better product at the same price or less and you will still buy China. You can't say you couldn't afford to buy a Chaos rail when they go up soon, and they will. You have the right to buy from whomever you want, but when your upset about how the people in power are screwing up this great country and you want to bitch at someone, look straight in the mirror my fellow American and hold the person in the the reflection responsible as well.

 

Yes, "people in power are screwing up this great country" because people aren't buying your rail! :rolleyes: Well how does it feel making a product that promotes the sale of RUSSIAN made weapons? Get off of it. What makes this country great and makes capitalism work is competition and the free market. Seems like you wrap yourself in the flag but have a big problem with that.

 

I'm unashamed to say I have a UTG on my AR15 and that sucker is rock solid. Other people that own them will say the same. Not being "pro level", I guess it will disintegrate into dust leaving me to die on the battlefields when TEOTWAWKI arrrives but that's something I will have to live with. Of course I could always put the "pro level" plastic handguards back on, and rest assured my life and that of my family will be safeguarded.

 

:killer:

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it is kinda ironic to thump our chest chanting USA, USA, USA while holding a Russian shotgun.

 

FWIW, I have a UTG for my AK and AR (along with a YHM on my other AR). The UTGs won't fall apart in your hands as implied. They are damn solid.

Edited by Caspian
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it is kinda ironic to thump our chest chanting USA, USA, USA while holding a Russian shotgun.

 

There are plenty of American rail options available. You give me one Magazine-fed, Semi-Automatic, reliable American 12-Gague shotgun that is available for civilians.

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an 1187 with a mag adaptor. as much effort could be put into modifying an 1187 as accessories for the saiga and we could easily have one.

 

what US full quad rail allows the use of factory sights? Your own arguement worked against you.

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it is kinda ironic to thump our chest chanting USA, USA, USA while holding a Russian shotgun.

 

 

+ 100

 

Either one looks like a good product. I have a us made POSP to weaver rail with UTG rings on my russian gun. All 3 are well made.

 

If I had to buy one I would get the chaos after he comes out with the long top rail option. I expect his to be lighter, and better looking and I would prefer it to be a compliance part. I have a UTG laser mount block that just has way to much unnecessary metal, It weighs a ton. I can't imagine a foot long version of that improving the handling on my gun. However the included covers are a real selling point to me. weaver rails just aren't nice to hold on to. even if the UTG covers wear out, they are better than none. (not as good as being able to take off the unused rail sections)

 

I still want to reiterate giving credit to the original poster. For one I am sure that there are people who prefer the looks of UTG, second, most of the time chaos has not been $100. Bottom line is more options are better. Would M.D. have had the support to launch his well liked product if he hadn't had competition making a crappy product that made people pay more attention to quality? Ultimately I think Mr. Hadley will sell more of his rails, because competition drove him to lower his price. In the long run it should help his business and build him a base of satisfied customers. customers who previously would not have put up $300.

 

And the one I wish someone was selling... something made of aluminum that weighs very little and has a full length rail on the bottom and places on the sides where rails can be easily added in the rare case they might be needed. All I want is a comfortable fore end that I can put a handle and a light or laser on. all the extra rails are bulky heavy and look overdone to me. The factory fore-end actually looks and feels good to me. make that in the US with a full length aluminum bottom rail. And keep the price down.

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an 1187 with a mag adaptor. as much effort could be put into modifying an 1187 as accessories for the saiga and we could easily have one.

 

what US full quad rail allows the use of factory sights? Your own arguement worked against you.

 

Provide me with info on that 1187 there because all searching I do shows me just a tube fed shotgun and extensions for it.

 

And who cares if I can use the factory sights or not. IMO if I'm gonna get a top rail I'm going to use something else like optics or other mount on sights. I personally don't like the boxing in of the sights as I love how open AK sights are. I can already see my FOV being raped by that rail. I just don't like the look of the UTG rail, I've had bad experience with them and the negative word of mouth from friends. Chinese or American has nothing to do with it for me.

 

I'm not saying you have to buy American, but you can't use the argument of "you bought a Russian shotgun yet you bitch at people who buy non-American rails" when there is no comparable American alternative to the Saiga-12 that exists for non-military(who get the AA-12).

 

I personally just don't like the look of the UTG rail and previous experience with UTG stuff has been bad.

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