Conversion confusion

[Talkren 0]

Hello all, i am new to this forum but i am here for good reasons. I am purchasing a Saiga 12. A good friend of my has the Saiga 7.62x39 and he loves it (so do i), and when it came time for me to get a shotgun i looked to this wonderful gun. I figure if i am going to get a shotgun then why get anything less.

 

Now my concern is this, i have heard a lot about conversions on these guns and I'm confused. What kind of conversions are the most popular and what are they for? The only thing i was really interested is a SAW grip and folding stock. Isn't the beauty of the Kalashnikov design its simplicity? Why would i want/need a conversion? I just dont want to dump a ton of money into this if i am not going to be taking advantage of it. Are there really enough shortcomings in this gun that i need to do these things? I expect a few out of the box. But not enough to warrent parts that cost as much as the gun itself.

[Flashbang 34]

Hello all, i am new to this forum but i am here for good reasons. I am purchasing a Saiga 12. A good friend of my has the Saiga 7.62x39 and he loves it (so do i), and when it came time for me to get a shotgun i looked to this wonderful gun. I figure if i am going to get a shotgun then why get anything less.

 

Now my concern is this, i have heard a lot about conversions on these guns and I'm confused. What kind of conversions are the most popular and what are they for? The only thing i was really interested is a SAW grip and folding stock. Isn't the beauty of the Kalashnikov design its simplicity? Why would i want/need a conversion? I just dont want to dump a ton of money into this if i am not going to be taking advantage of it. Are there really enough shortcomings in this gun that i need to do these things? I expect a few out of the box. But not enough to warrent parts that cost as much as the gun itself.

 

Why Convert...

 

You dont need to do it...although once you pick up a converted gun, you will probably want to convert it.

[Talkren 0]

I had seen that thread but i was still unsure. I just dont understand why people are putting so much into these and what its all for.

[HarvKY 72]

The "conversion" is to get the gun back into the original Kalashnikov design rather than the "sporting" setup that is required by our inane gun laws to make it importable.

 

"Some" people do indeed put a larger amount of money into their gun, but many others spend only a nominal amount to create an authentic Russian manufactured AK designed weapon.

You cannot get that any other way at such a low price :-)

 

Just do some research on various suppliers for only the necessary parts; FCG, PG, probably an AK buttstock(though not absolutely required), maybe a TG(if you dont reuse your old one) and you can get by pretty darn cheap.

 

But then the disease sets in......

and you'll want to add maybe just this item, then that item, then another & another

 

Cheers

HarvKY

[oliverb 4]

I think I am qualified to speak to this question. As a person new to Saigas, I know how easy it is to get caught up in the whole conversion thing. It is easy to double (or more!) the investment in your gun. Some folks only want an inexpensive, reliable and fun shooter while others get a lot of joy out of planning the look they want, searching for the parts and doing the conversion. That's me. I am not doing it with the intention of being able to turn an immediate profit. Won't happen. My reason is for the long haul. Personal satisfaction for me and something to pass along to my 26 yr. old son who also shares my interest in guns. These guns and/or the parts might not be available in the future. If they are, prices will most likely be higher. If not, so be it. Can't put a price on everything.

[Modiano 5]

Talkren,

 

the sole purpose of conversion is to restore the perfectly fine kalashnikov design and ergonomics from it's neutered US-importable state. why saigas? quality control on your NIB saiga built at izhmash should be better than copies produced by most other communist countries. a saiga is a "true russian AK"...and it has a bolt hold open which may be required at your range

 

you can easily accomplish that task on a budget using basic household tools. sure, some guys will spend $1,000+ on tricking out their saiga. the same guys would have no problem dumping that much money into customizing their AK, AR, or 1911.

 

you can convert (restore) on a budget. not including shipping charges, i put about $175 into a saiga-20. $65 of that cost was for a foregrip/light holder that you may not want/need. the gun cost $380 NIB. add in conversion costs and we're looking at around $550...which is the bargain retail price for unconverted saiga-12 sporters.

 

shop around. at minimum you're looking at buying:

FCG: tapco g2 for $30. a little grinding, and bam, you've got room for the bolt hold open

FCG retaining plate or e-clips: $1-10

pistol grip: SAW grip $10-15

hole plugs for the rivets you drilled out: $1-2

high temp BBQ paint: $3-5

other than a buttstock, that's really all you need to buy to complete a conversion

 

now, since you want a folding stock, you're looking at more work and money if you want the gun to be funtional while folded

you're options are:

1. buy a tromix or ace folder for $125+, which require a receiver block $40 or welded receiver plate $10+

2. buy a romanian or east german wire folder $70+ if you can actually find one

3. use AK to AR buttstock adapter which requires receiver block or receiver plate...and an AR buttstock w/ folding mechanism.

if you want a functional folded AK, you're looking at spending some serious cash unless you can find a romanian wire folder

 

if you're not concerned about the ability to cycle and fire the gun when folded, you can go for any US-made right-side folder by ATI (wich is ugly as sin) or tapco. most budget folder guys opt for the tapco which you can find for $35-50. personally, i say if you're that concerned about conserving storage space, just cut off the receiver tang, use a receiver block or weld on the flat receiver plate, and go pistol grip only. with a bit a practice, a PGO shotgun will serve you well in home/personal defense distances.

 

basic conversion cost (not including shipping or tools): $100-150

once you start getting into new forearms, rails, and fancy buttstocks the price can go up drastically

 

i say get the conversion done so you have a fully functional saiga. later on, you can pimp it out as you like when you can afford it

[volkov 318]

it's been said more or less.. But I just want to stress that a conversion itself is nothing more then moving the trigger to it's intended position.

 

The customizations you will see on this forum are NOT part of the conversion, although you will likely need to do some customization after the conversion to stay 922 compliant (need a certain amount of american parts), though this can be by replacing interior workings or exterior parts with identical USA made parts..

 

edit: an american made folding stock would also count as a compliance part and that plus the fire control group (FGC) necesary for your conversion would put you several steps towards 922 compliance

Edited October 27, 2009 by volkov

[Talkren 0]

Thank you all for the info. Sense the post i have received my saiga and i am looking into a conversion . I may go with a stock at first that i dont have to convert the gun to use, but if i dont like it i will be converting.

[Azrial 1,091]

Thank you all for the info. Sense the post i have received my saiga and i am looking into a conversion . I may go with a stock at first that i dont have to convert the gun to use, but if i dont like it i will be converting.

Well each to his own, but the "conversion" is actually a restoration. The firearm was designed in a normal AK pistol grip configuration with the trigger coming out the correct place for an AK, they just mucked it up to be able to import it into the USA.

 

Welcome to the board.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Azrial

[Talkren 0]

I am going to be converting my S12. I worry though because i have no smithing knowledge. I dont know if i have full confidence in doing this myself. I have seen some step by step video tutorials, and it doesnt look to hard, but watching a video and doing it are two different things. What is the real difficulty level on the conversion? Also, is it something that should be attempted by some one of my (lack of) knowledge?

[FluffRat 1]

It really isn't very hard at all if you have a little experience using a Dremel. The hardest part is working up the nerve to start grinding on your brand new shiny thing. Go slowly, watch the videos until you understand each step, you should be fine.

[Talkren 0]

It really isn't very hard at all if you have a little experience using a Dremel. The hardest part is working up the nerve to start grinding on your brand new shiny thing. Go slowly, watch the videos until you understand each step, you should be fine.

 

 

Your right about having the nerve. I'm dead set on getting this done though, and i know when its done i will love every bit of it.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

It really isn't very hard at all if you have a little experience using a Dremel. The hardest part is working up the nerve to start grinding on your brand new shiny thing. Go slowly, watch the videos until you understand each step, you should be fine.

 

 

Your right about having the nerve. I'm dead set on getting this done though, and i know when its done i will love every bit of it.

 

I've done an S12 and a 7.62x39. When I did the first one (7.62x39), it was literally only the 2nd gun I'd ever owned, so obviously I too was severely lacking on "smithing knowledge", as you put it. FluffRat's right. Just getting up the nerve is the hardest part. The only other (kinda) hard part is getting that damn "sporter plate" off, but even that's not really bad.

 

Like I've always said: Once you finish your first one, you will have a moment of "Damn, that was WAY easier than I thought it was going to be", guaranteed.