HarvKY 72 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Looking for some knowledgable feedback from those who have obtained or explored an NFA trust. The guy in FLA whose usually linked to in various online NFA trust threads quoted a price of $700 to setup an NFA trust Theres no "NFA trust" - I simply labeled it as such b/c he markets them as being designed for use with NFA items. There is the Quiken/Willmaker option. I've been hesitant to risk a mistake with this option and end up having big problems or losing my gun(s) I havent seen anyone report using LegalZoom. Their Living trust is advertised as $220-$300. I have found no attorney in my home state who does an NFA trust in particular. Heck, in my area I couldnt find a single one who even knew what I was talking about. Anyone have another option or more detailed info to offer????? TIA HarvKY Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigj480 203 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I have had a trust prepared by an associate of Mr. Goldman, if that is who you are referring to. When I had mine done it was $500 and I thought that was the most I would spend on a trust. Perhaps business has picked up since the O got in office. It did have specific provisions dealing with NFA items. Mr. Goldman's associate, the same one that did my trust, now has her own website at www.nfa-trusts.com and has drafted her own trust. You may want to see if she can prepare a trust for you or ask Mr. Goldman to refer you to someone in your state. Mr. Goldman's trust seemed to be more detailed and included instructions/information that was more detailed. I'm not too worried about it and I will shortly be submitting the trust that was drafted by Ms. Barajas. The bottom line is, don't go with Quiken/LegalZoom, there will be absolutely zero NFA specific language in that trust and that is a bad thing IMO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 My dealer did mine for me for $50. All I had to do was fill out the Assignment of Property and have it notarized. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yakdung 2,926 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I have been looking into this and ran upon this website. I believe the route I'm going to take is something called a "Firearms Trust". It is more detailed than a standard revocable trust. http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2008/06/how-to-set-up-a-revocable-livi-1.html Good luck, Yakdung Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HarvKY 72 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thanx guys Good responses - hope we get more info. Yes Goldman's firm (as is the link above) was the one that quoted $700, they do it and send to an attorney in my state to review and then to me. Im curious about what your dealer was doing/using exactly? Whether he's an attorney?, has access to one who allows him to use a template? (knowing attorneys I highly doubt that), is using a form from Quicken, etc?, or may be reusing someone elses trust paperwork? No negative insinuations intended, just wondering because as noted, the long term legal ramifications can be rather serious to just trust someone who is not liable for any legal problems or providing you any accountability down the road. Look forward to more info if possible. Still curious on the LegalZoom option since that IS a legal firm standing behind the work. I may send them an inquiry if no one else has checked that out. ...probably turn out to be antigunners though ;-( Cheers, HarvKy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 It was clearly from a template, where he obtained it I do not know. I am not an attorney, and certainly couldn't tell the difference between a well-written trust and a poorly-written one. Hopefully it is sufficient, as it was all I could afford, and had no desire to go through the fingerprints/photos/LE signature bullshit on the form 4. That being said, my transfer was approved. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HarvKY 72 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 It was clearly from a template, where he obtained it I do not know. I am not an attorney, and certainly couldn't tell the difference between a well-written trust and a poorly-written one. Hopefully it is sufficient, as it was all I could afford, and had no desire to go through the fingerprints/photos/LE signature bullshit on the form 4. That being said, my transfer was approved. Thanx Harv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 I think Nathan from Mississippi Auto Arms said that he formed RLT's as well. Never was given a price, as I already had mine, but you might wanna check with him. I have heard of SEVERAL people using Quicken, LegalZoom ect with no problems but if your trust wasn't "legal" the ATF would not approve your transfer in the first place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 ->> See new stickey on NFA TRUSTS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ram123 17 Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 I was just quoted $750 for a Trust by one of Goldmans associates. That is not cheap compared to the Wilmaker route. I'm thinking of which route I'll take. hmmmmm? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 I think Nathan from Mississippi Auto Arms said that he formed RLT's as well. Never was given a price, as I already had mine, but you might wanna check with him. I have heard of SEVERAL people using Quicken, LegalZoom ect with no problems but if your trust wasn't "legal" the ATF would not approve your transfer in the first place. There are several reports of the ATF finding "issues" in trusts they've approved (sometimes years later) and coming back on the owner. Don't use Quicken or similar. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MAAnew 162 Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 If you purchase a NFA item from Mississippi Auto Arms, we will pay to setup your NFA trust in MS, TN, or AL. If you are not purchasing the items from MAA, we have contact information for attorneys in the follwing states: MS NFA trust - $350 AL NFA trust - $350 TN NFA trust - $350 KY NFA trust - $350 FL NFA trust - $400 LA NFA trust - $400 GA NFA trust - $400 I think Nathan from Mississippi Auto Arms said that he formed RLT's as well. Never was given a price, as I already had mine, but you might wanna check with him. I have heard of SEVERAL people using Quicken, LegalZoom ect with no problems but if your trust wasn't "legal" the ATF would not approve your transfer in the first place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mgconnor13 206 Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) Any one know some one I can talk to in NC about setting up a trust so I can get NFA items? Is I possible to have a trust set up so both you and your spouse are the owners of the trust and everything in it? I want to makes sure if I do get a SBS there's no way some one could try to claim my wife is in illegial possion of a SBS because I'm not home etc.... edited for spelling Edited October 27, 2009 by Rusty truck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigj480 203 Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Any one know some one I can talk to in NC abou setting up a trust so I can get NFA items? Is I possible to have a trust set up so both you and your spouse are the owners of the trust and everything in it? I want to makes sure if I do have get a SBS there's no way some one could try to clam my wife is in illegial possion of a SBS because I'm not home etc.... As far as I know, yes. As a matter of fact, My trust has my brother and I listed as grantors and co-trustees. I haven't submitted my trust yet, though. Don't take my word for it consult a lawyer that specializes in NFA trusts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 PM received. To answer your question for everyone to see is "YES." For example in my situation...I am the Grantor & Trustee and my wife the Co-Trustee. ATF has approved 2 suppressors & 1 SBS given this format. Nice to see you thinking ahead...most people I meet only want to GET the suppressor and forget all the additional paperwork involved. Just remember when in doubt call the NFA Branch...they are really helpful. I have contacted my agent several times with questions, and even gotten a call back a few times with a update. BATFE NFA Branch (304) 616-4500 Any one know some one I can talk to in NC abou setting up a trust so I can get NFA items? Is I possible to have a trust set up so both you and your spouse are the owners of the trust and everything in it? I want to makes sure if I do have get a SBS there's no way some one could try to clam my wife is in illegial possion of a SBS because I'm not home etc.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ram123 17 Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 One problem I'm running into is for example if I decide to use Goldman lawyers I would still need to use another lawyer in my home state Virginia. I'm currently looking for a lawyer in Virginia who can handle the complete write up of a trust and not just guidance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MAAnew 162 Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 We don't have the contact information for an attorney in Virginia. I will check with some friends and see if I can get a name and number for you. One problem I'm running into is for example if I decide to use Goldman lawyers I would still need to use another lawyer in my home state Virginia. I'm currently looking for a lawyer in Virginia who can handle the complete write up of a trust and not just guidance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ram123 17 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Thanks, I had time to call some lawyers in VA and found a few that will do it for me I'm just comparing prices at the moment. So far the most expensive is 750.00 I'd like to cut that cost in have. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crackback 135 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 When you have an NFA trust and you permanently move to another state(assuming the new state allows these NFAs) are there more things to do beside a Form 5320.20? Is it a different process than an individual owner? I can see myself moving around maybe 3-4 times in the next 20 years is why I ask. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 When you have an NFA trust and you permanently move to another state(assuming the new state allows these NFAs) are there more things to do beside a Form 5320.20? Is it a different process than an individual owner? I can see myself moving around maybe 3-4 times in the next 20 years is why I ask. My understanding is "no" there is nothing different RLT vs Individual Ownership when it comes to moving NFA Items. The 5320.20 ATF Form is all you need to complete to move all but the suppressor, this is the ONLY except nfa item unless it's a permanent move. I too see myself moving a few more times as I still have 10 years till I retire from the Marine Corps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kwesi 39 Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Any one know some one I can talk to in NC about setting up a trust so I can get NFA items? Is I possible to have a trust set up so both you and your spouse are the owners of the trust and everything in it? I want to makes sure if I do get a SBS there's no way some one could try to claim my wife is in illegial possion of a SBS because I'm not home etc.... edited for spelling Absolutely! My wife is definitely not into firearms and since she would have them in per possession if I was not with her thus my attorney advised the trust be in my name only. She is the beneficiary and in the event of her death then our two children are named. Your wife would not have illegal possession as long as she did not have access to the SBS. For example my wife does not even know the combination to the safe therefore she cannot get into trouble; that I believe protects her to the letter of the law. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kwesi 39 Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Looking for some knowledgable feedback from those who have obtained or explored an NFA trust. The guy in FLA whose usually linked to in various online NFA trust threads quoted a price of $700 to setup an NFA trust Theres no "NFA trust" - I simply labeled it as such b/c he markets them as being designed for use with NFA items. There is the Quiken/Willmaker option. I've been hesitant to risk a mistake with this option and end up having big problems or losing my gun(s) I havent seen anyone report using LegalZoom. Their Living trust is advertised as $220-$300. I have found no attorney in my home state who does an NFA trust in particular. Heck, in my area I couldnt find a single one who even knew what I was talking about. Anyone have another option or more detailed info to offer????? TIA HarvKY My attorney that prepared my trust resides in the state of FL and only prepares trusts for residents of FL. My cost was $450. He personally played a big part, as I understand, to get trusts approved by ATF. If anyone is in FL and wants his contact info email be at: michael@michaeldavissellshomes.com PS: I have a friend that used Quicken and never had a problem on any of his many approvals but I agree with the earlier suggestion that you should have an attorney, that specifically understands NFA, to prepare it. I think $700 sounds a bit too high unless I did not get my money's worth and just don't know it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Any one know some one I can talk to in NC about setting up a trust so I can get NFA items? Is I possible to have a trust set up so both you and your spouse are the owners of the trust and everything in it? I want to makes sure if I do get a SBS there's no way some one could try to claim my wife is in illegial possion of a SBS because I'm not home etc.... edited for spelling Absolutely! My wife is definitely not into firearms and since she would have them in per possession if I was not with her thus my attorney advised the trust be in my name only. She is the beneficiary and in the event of her death then our two children are named. Your wife would not have illegal possession as long as she did not have access to the SBS. For example my wife does not even know the combination to the safe therefore she cannot get into trouble; that I believe protects her to the letter of the law. Incase you missed post #15 this handles RT's question as well. As for your statemant about your wife or really anyone in your household NOT having the safe combo this DOES protect you however if you add her then it's no longer a problem. My wife has the combo and occationally takes out her P22/Suppressed in the back yard to pratice her critter 'N skills. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mgconnor13 206 Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 My concern is some A hole lawyer or bueracrate causing my family problems. I don't want some one in my family getting screwed over because of a BS techincality. That's why I was wondering about setting up a trust so I could have my spouse as a co trustee so she can have it in her "possesion" ever time I'm not home and she is. I spend a lot of time out of town for work so I want to completely sure we're completely covered on the legal end of things at all times before starting a SBS build. I can't get away with the "she doesn't know the combination to the safe" excuse because she bought it for me and routinely stores things in it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 My dealer did mine for me for $50. Practicing law without a license is a no no. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kwesi 39 Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 My concern is some A hole lawyer or bueracrate causing my family problems. I don't want some one in my family getting screwed over because of a BS techincality. That's why I was wondering about setting up a trust so I could have my spouse as a co trustee so she can have it in her "possesion" ever time I'm not home and she is. I spend a lot of time out of town for work so I want to completely sure we're completely covered on the legal end of things at all times before starting a SBS build. I can't get away with the "she doesn't know the combination to the safe" excuse because she bought it for me and routinely stores things in it. Then I would definitely have your spouse named in the trust and your covered. Be sure to give some thought to the name of your trust as it may come into play if you need to have something engraved! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ram123 17 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I finally got hold of a lawyer in Virginia who is currently making a Trust for me. I've been reviewing the ATF form 1 and I take it that I leave the cheif law enforcement sign off part blank, since I went the trust route? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kwesi 39 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I finally got hold of a lawyer in Virginia who is currently making a Trust for me. I've been reviewing the ATF form 1 and I take it that I leave the cheif law enforcement sign off part blank, since I went the trust route? Correct. I was instructed to put n/a on each line of that section. Mine was approved with the n/a. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ram123 17 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 thanks that is what I will do. How many weeks did it take you to get your stamp? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 I finally got hold of a lawyer in Virginia who is currently making a Trust for me. I've been reviewing the ATF form 1 and I take it that I leave the cheif law enforcement sign off part blank, since I went the trust route? Correct. I was instructed to put n/a on each line of that section. Mine was approved with the n/a. And mine was approved with the section blank. Guess it either doesn't matter, or depends on the person handling the approval of your transfer. thanks that is what I will do. How many weeks did it take you to get your stamp? Mine took about 12 weeks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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