Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 2 votes

Rifled Saiga-12 Barrel in the works


  • Please log in to reply
45 replies to this topic

#1 TonyRumore

TonyRumore

    TonyRumore

  • Business Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,302 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Inola, OK

Posted 15 October 2009 - 03:29 PM

I just ordered up the stuff to build a rifled Saiga-12 barrel. The blank will a Pac-Nor unit.
It should prove to be an interesting project and if it all works out OK, and is not too time consuming, I will consider offering them as a Tromix option.

Tony Rumore
Tromix Corp
  • Cobra's Custom LLC, Nailbomb, Crusader and 2 others like this
Posted Image
Click here for the Tromix site!

You don't have to be good to succeed.....just better than everyone else.

#2 Crusader

Crusader

    Executive Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 667 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 October 2009 - 03:37 PM

I just ordered up the stuff to build a rifled Saiga-12 barrel. The blank will a Pac-Nor unit.
It should prove to be an interesting project and if it all works out OK, and is not too time consuming, I will consider offering them as a Tromix option.

Tony Rumore
Tromix Corp

Is it possible to rig up some kind of a barrel interchange system so that the operator can change out the barrels in the field?

#3 TonyRumore

TonyRumore

    TonyRumore

  • Business Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,302 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Inola, OK

Posted 15 October 2009 - 03:45 PM

I prototyped a bolt-in barrel awhile back, and then later changed it to a pin-in-place quick change setup. It worked fine and the barrel was quite snug, but for a rifled slug gun, I think you would want a more rigidly fixed barrel.
  • Crusader likes this
Posted Image
Click here for the Tromix site!

You don't have to be good to succeed.....just better than everyone else.

#4 Rusty truck

Rusty truck

    I just want to be left alone!!

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 980 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 October 2009 - 04:28 PM

Just the idea of being able to change barrels sounds great, especially if you have the option of rifled barrels.

Edited by Rusty truck, 15 October 2009 - 04:29 PM.

"Why fight fair when you can win?!"
"there's no such thing as too dead."

#5 Caspian

Caspian

    inner child abuser

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 640 posts

Posted 15 October 2009 - 05:30 PM

you are truly sick...i like it. seriously, can the S-12 get any better?

#6 mav

mav

    purveyor of obstinance

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,476 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North East Texas

Posted 15 October 2009 - 06:00 PM

Very cool, this will be a great option for those that live in those anti rifle states.
*out of nowhere* productions
In God We Trust
Links gone because "somebody" whined.
In Socialist Amerika, government robs you... and gives it to someone less deserving.

#7 1LSWON

1LSWON

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts

Posted 15 October 2009 - 07:01 PM

Oh yes should be a very sweet build can't wait to see that bad boy in action. I'm esp interested in how the Remington sabots preform out of her. Also very true for the anti rifle states, great platform both the ak and ar are great for doing what you want. I live in Texas so it would be more of a fun toy. I mainly hunt hogs, and use an HK91 or LMT MRP, but I'm always looking for something else to drop them like hot rocks. Lol only thing I have to look into is if the PVS 14 can take saiga 12 recoil. With the HK sights and rifled barrel the saiga should def be able to reach out and touch anything from 5-200m.




Thomas Burchsted

Edited by 1LSWON, 15 October 2009 - 07:23 PM.

  • S-12 Pauly likes this

#8 TonyRumore

TonyRumore

    TonyRumore

  • Business Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,302 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Inola, OK

Posted 15 October 2009 - 07:17 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mr. Burchsted is the man that ponied up the money to get the project off the ground.
Posted Image
Click here for the Tromix site!

You don't have to be good to succeed.....just better than everyone else.

#9 why2kmax

why2kmax

    Member

  • Contributor
  • Pip
  • 57 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Peoples' Republic of Maryland

Posted 15 October 2009 - 08:10 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mr. Burchsted is the man that ponied up the money to get the project off the ground.


Well God bless you both. Cant wait to see how this turns out

#10 aresv

aresv

    ubi dubium ibi libertas

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 604 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern Alabama

Posted 15 October 2009 - 08:19 PM

Oh man.... this is going to be just the ticket for people in shotgun-only deer areas!
To be rational is to look the universe in the face and not flinch.

#11 headshot

headshot

    Sumnabitch

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,310 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Peoples Republik of Maryland

Posted 16 October 2009 - 12:42 AM

Any way to make a quick-change barrel system like a flip lever? In the style of your average lower handguard retainer for an AK?
Even in the style of the Magpul Masada/Bushmaster ACR?

#12 Cobra's Custom LLC

Cobra's Custom LLC

    Custom Parts and Parts Service

  • Business Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,465 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Carolina

Posted 16 October 2009 - 11:26 AM

..or like the MGI?
  • volkov likes this

imag036.GIF

 

 - Bolt & Carrier Mods and Polishing > http://www.Cobras-Custom.com <

Details on Cobra's Custom ReliabilitySystem >> http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/90388-new-ak-saiga-vepr-bolt-and-trigger-service-no-extra-waiting/

Our Sub Forum - COBRA'S CUSTOM LLC
IMPROVISE! ADAPT! OVERCOME!

 

 


#13 KROSS FA

KROSS FA

    Advanced Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPip
  • 415 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 16 October 2009 - 05:56 PM

This will be really neat. I'm looking forward to seeing the range report on this baby. If I'm not mistaken a rifled sabot slug is approximately a .73 cal projectile and can range anywhere from around 275-400 grains, correct? With a rifled barrel in combination with the box fed magazine and overall benefits of the Saiga's AK platform I'd imagine this would be a pretty devastating and accurate setup out to around 100-150 yards.


Zach
KROSS FA

#14 1LSWON

1LSWON

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts

Posted 16 October 2009 - 09:25 PM

This will be really neat. I'm looking forward to seeing the range report on this baby. If I'm not mistaken a rifled sabot slug is approximately a .73 cal projectile and can range anywhere from around 275-400 grains, correct? With a rifled barrel in combination with the box fed magazine and overall benefits of the Saiga's AK platform I'd imagine this would be a pretty devastating and accurate setup out to around 100-150 yards.


Zach
KROSS FA

I prefer the subcaliber sabots .58 385gr @ 2300fps. They do not play games.

#15 Patrick D

Patrick D

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 79 posts

Posted 17 October 2009 - 12:36 AM


This will be really neat. I'm looking forward to seeing the range report on this baby. If I'm not mistaken a rifled sabot slug is approximately a .73 cal projectile and can range anywhere from around 275-400 grains, correct? With a rifled barrel in combination with the box fed magazine and overall benefits of the Saiga's AK platform I'd imagine this would be a pretty devastating and accurate setup out to around 100-150 yards.


Zach
KROSS FA

I prefer the subcaliber sabots .58 385gr @ 2300fps. They do not play games.

I do like "subcaliber" and ".58 385gr" in the same sentence! :)

#16 1LSWON

1LSWON

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts

Posted 18 October 2009 - 09:26 PM

I just hope this bad boy ends up being practical and could possibly be an addition to the Tromix lineup S-BFG. FA SBS with a can, I'm not sure how the silencer would like the sabots; but a guy can dream.

Thomas

#17 NataSS Inc

NataSS Inc

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 80 posts

Posted 19 October 2009 - 11:29 PM

Geeeez Tony, would you hurry and make this thing already! IF i have to get another call from Thomas about how awesome this build is going to be (yes, he call me daily. Its like having a bad disease, he just wont go away!), my head is going to explode!

J/K

Mr. Burchstead is GTG and a good friend of mine. If it wasnt for me this turkey would have never known what a Saiga was!

Not only that, I will be in line for one of these.

Edited by NataSS Inc, 20 October 2009 - 12:32 AM.

Posted Image

#18 1LSWON

1LSWON

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts

Posted 19 October 2009 - 11:49 PM

Geeeez Tony, would you hurry and make this thing already! IF i have to get another call from Thomas about how awesome this build is going to be (yes, he call me daily. Its like having a bad disease, he just wont go away!), my head is going to explode!

J/K

Mr. Burchstead is GTG and a good friend of mine. If it wasnt for me this turkey would have never known what a Saiga was!

Not only that, I will be in line for one of these.



Boyce always with the attitude lol. I give you complete credit for introducing me to Tromix. However, I take complete responsiblity for that clean ass AR I threw your way. Most oh all thanks for the shirt you got me.

Thomas

Edited by 1LSWON, 20 October 2009 - 12:34 AM.


#19 Havoc308

Havoc308

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 297 posts

Posted 20 October 2009 - 07:04 AM

Must have.... for Dixie Slugs.. 730gn hardcast lead @ 1200.
If you can't take it apart, you don't own it.

~~ Und meine Seele spannte Weit ihre Flügel aus, Flog durch die stillen Lande, Als flöge sie nach Haus ~~

The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but Im just not close enough to get the job done.

Saiga=The ability to buy more rifles and shotguns than you can swim with, for the price of one Springfield Armory M1A

3%

#20 1LSWON

1LSWON

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts

Posted 20 October 2009 - 10:55 AM

http://www.remington..._sabot_slug.asp

http://www.lg-outdoo...p?prod=SS_29468

http://www.lg-outdoo...p?prod=SS_15474

here are a few of the ones I like, but I like the solid brass slug the most. I wish there were more available for reloading so I could have exactly what I want.

These range from 250gr-385gr

Edited by 1LSWON, 20 October 2009 - 10:56 AM.


#21 Diamondback

Diamondback

    Evil/Crazy Bastard

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 478 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Behind enemy lines in Seattlegrad, Soviet Socialist Kleptocracy of Washingtonistan

Posted 21 October 2009 - 11:22 PM

Any way to make a quick-change barrel system like a flip lever? In the style of your average lower handguard retainer for an AK?
Even in the style of the Magpul Masada/Bushmaster ACR?

And if so, would a hot-swap mean having to build up another handguard/rail assembly around the second barrel? The idea of pop-drop-lock-BANG! out in the field, hopefully without having to re-zero the EOTech, has a certain appeal...

<><><><><><><><>< ><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><>< ><><><><>
"Stop your frowning and grab your Browning! It's time to LOCK AND LOAD!"--Gunny Ermey (OOHRAH!)


#22 1LSWON

1LSWON

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts

Posted 22 October 2009 - 02:50 PM


Any way to make a quick-change barrel system like a flip lever? In the style of your average lower handguard retainer for an AK?
Even in the style of the Magpul Masada/Bushmaster ACR?

And if so, would a hot-swap mean having to build up another handguard/rail assembly around the second barrel? The idea of pop-drop-lock-BANG! out in the field, hopefully without having to re-zero the EOTech, has a certain appeal...



I have several LMT MRPs that I can change barrels on by backing out two Allen head screws with a tq wrench. The barrel pulls out the front through the free float tube and then you slide in the new barrel with no loss of zero.

Tony is building this for me and we have not discussed quick change barrels at all. He has stated that he tested a system where you could quick change barrels on the ak platform, but I do not think that is where he is taking this build. I mean sure it would be cool and if he does great, but it would have zero impact on what I use this for, and the rifled barrel would most likely remain reguardless, and I'll explain why.

The whole reason for this build is to have a saiga that is accurate to 150m+ with a sabot slug. Now with the sabots if I want to fire shot I still can, but it has to be saboted shot. Which will cut down on the number of pellets, but only by a small amount. So with the rifled barrel I can do everything a smooth bore can do, but with added accuracy on the far reaches of the shotgun range.

As for the no loss of zero I think that would only come to play when switching from a smooth bore to the rifled barrel. That is for my application though.


Here is the area where I could see a need for quick change barrels. Let's say I have a SBS 8" and all I want to shoot is sabots, and it's an 8" rifled barrel. That would be great as an entry gun etc. Now let's say I also like to hunt deer and live in a shotgun only state. It sure would be nice to throw in a rifled barrel anywhere from 16-22" for that purpose. Now let's say I also love to hunt doves, and it would be nice to fire a smooth barrel of 20"+ for that purpose. At that point you would effectily have atleast 3 shotguns to do what your quick change saiga could do with simple barrel swaps.

I guess I can see the use for that and the cool factor would be pretty high I must say. The only thing I could see as a draw back would be the rigity (sp). I just don't truly know how rigid (sp) an AK with quick change barrels would be I mean there is no free lunch.

#23 1LSWON

1LSWON

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts

Posted 22 October 2009 - 03:30 PM

Who knows though I do know where there is a will there is a way. Tony may correct me, but I don't see how that could be easily done. Both the LMT MRP and the Noveski/Vltor MUR are "AR uppers," but they were completly redesigned to be quick change barrel uppers. They are much thinker in weak areas and designed to be what they are from the ground up, they are not just AR uppers you can switch barrels on. I'm not going to lie it would be out of control if at some point Tromix built their own AK from the ground up with that in mind. Then we would have a 100% US made AK, I would call in the TK. Here is my dream sequence buy Tromix AK or TK receiver then choose stock and trigger options. Then pick caliber from 410-.308 Nato. Have it marked multiple caliber and to switch caliber or Gage simply switch barrel, recoil rod, and BCG/gas piston, and change gas plug to the one for your caliber or Gage etc. Lol that would be one he'll of a gun!!!

Edited by 1LSWON, 22 October 2009 - 03:34 PM.


#24 1LSWON

1LSWON

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts

Posted 22 October 2009 - 11:50 PM

yes you read right 2800fps. I don't know how, but I'll look into it.

The long-awaited arrival is over. Our BLS-12 Ballistic Sabot is now in stock! It took over a year of prototyping and required the development of our own proprietary resin blend, but we got it right. We are finally ready to unveil our own 12 gauge sabot design. Our ballistic lab is launching Hornady .50 cal XTP pistol bullets (300 gr., 350 gr., & 500 gr.) at ultra-high velocities up to 2800 feet per second. We will also be offering a custom designed, fully non-toxic .50 cal bullet (300 gr.). * Maximum Accuracy - Built to maximize the performance of rifled slug barrels. * Non-Toxic Capability - Designed to accept a special 292 grain non-toxic bullet. * Versatile - Load a range of bullets from 300,350 to 500 grains to suit your game. * Tough - Originally designed and tested for tactical and national defense loads. Our special resin blend means that the BLS-12 can handle the toughest conditions and the hardest loads. * Cushioned Design - Our revolutionary Sabot Cushioning System (SCS) reduces spike pressures and allows for higher velocities. *A free load data sheet comes with every purchase.
  • kencrawleysc likes this

#25 kencrawleysc

kencrawleysc

    Engaging Conversationalist

  • Contributor
  • Pip
  • 81 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kuwait - home is SC

Posted 23 October 2009 - 08:39 AM

yes you read right 2800fps. I don't know how, but I'll look into it.

The long-awaited arrival is over. Our BLS-12 Ballistic Sabot is now in stock! It took over a year of prototyping and required the development of our own proprietary resin blend, but we got it right. We are finally ready to unveil our own 12 gauge sabot design. Our ballistic lab is launching Hornady .50 cal XTP pistol bullets (300 gr., 350 gr., & 500 gr.) at ultra-high velocities up to 2800 feet per second. We will also be offering a custom designed, fully non-toxic .50 cal bullet (300 gr.). * Maximum Accuracy - Built to maximize the performance of rifled slug barrels. * Non-Toxic Capability - Designed to accept a special 292 grain non-toxic bullet. * Versatile - Load a range of bullets from 300,350 to 500 grains to suit your game. * Tough - Originally designed and tested for tactical and national defense loads. Our special resin blend means that the BLS-12 can handle the toughest conditions and the hardest loads. * Cushioned Design - Our revolutionary Sabot Cushioning System (SCS) reduces spike pressures and allows for higher velocities. *A free load data sheet comes with every purchase.


WOW! deja Vu all over again! It seems the my Tromix TR-15 .50AE Sledgehammer, with 33 grains of H110, 350 LargePistol primer was clocking those same Hornady XTP 300gr bullets at about 2700 fps back in 04' when I was going through boxes of primers reloading and feeding that animal. Hmmm, so if my S-17 is smooth bore, I will have to have two weapons slung on my back to shoot the same bullet?

Ah, but the 8" barrel, like my BFR .50AE was giving me 2,500 fps with the same loading. The Desert Eagles w/6" about 2,250 ish. My problem was I kept shooting the chronys!!!!
I was also wanting to make a .50AE out of shotgun pellets in epoxy. But I would not know what I am doing.

I told Tony I will chrony the 00 Buck in the 8" S-17 when I get back.
And I will chrony the DE with the same run of .50AE.
Could I shoot just 1 or 2 of the BLS-12 in the smooth bore at 10 feet for crono purposes?


Ken

#26 1LSWON

1LSWON

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts

Posted 28 October 2009 - 04:51 PM

Well I ordered all of the crap I posted above. I think the 2800fps is a pipe dream for safety related reasons. I have reloaded shot shells before, but I was not going for fps. I have reloaded OO buck shot packed with sawdust to reduce the spread, but again they were only loaded to average high brass levels. I think 2000-2300 is more of a realistic max, but that is no BS for a slug weighing 350-400gr.

#27 Bladed

Bladed

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 23 posts

Posted 05 November 2009 - 04:02 PM

If you want to see what you can do with a rifled 12 ga, check this thread out: http://www.thefiring...ighlight=sabot. this is a nasty gun! (if this post is impoper pm me and I'll remove it)

#28 1LSWON

1LSWON

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts

Posted 05 November 2009 - 09:07 PM

That is pretty out there I must say. However, the whole reason behind this build is to keep this a shot gun, and a non NFA weapon. I wanted a big hard hitting Saiga that was accurate, and more importantly accuracy at distance. With the rifle barrel and sabot slugs I will have a shotgun that is accurate to 200m. I will play around with hand loads and weights etc, and that range may even be increased. Also, this could be a very interesting shotgun for the people who can only hunt with shotguns in their states. For a brush gun this will be ideal, and I may even make a trip to Washington state to try my hand at something larger than a hog.

Now for a true rifle that was in .50, I wod love to see a saiga done by tromix in .500 S&W

Edited by 1LSWON, 05 November 2009 - 09:10 PM.


#29 Bladed

Bladed

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 23 posts

Posted 06 November 2009 - 01:04 AM

The large bore guns he has been building from the 12 ga from what I understand are still legal 12 gauges and not NFA weapons. I've read 13 pages and apparently it does have to have a NFA stamp because it can still use standard shot shells and is a single shot mechanism. Now the one he built a receiver for I imagine he has to get a stamp for. Of course he doesn't really mention any of the legal work he does on them.

Anyway I just posted the link to show some possibilties. Imagine using a renecked .50 cal bmg round in a saiga....................

#30 1LSWON

1LSWON

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts

Posted 05 December 2009 - 01:26 PM

The large bore guns he has been building from the 12 ga from what I understand are still legal 12 gauges and not NFA weapons. I've read 13 pages and apparently it does have to have a NFA stamp because it can still use standard shot shells and is a single shot mechanism. Now the one he built a receiver for I imagine he has to get a stamp for. Of course he doesn't really mention any of the legal work he does on them.

Anyway I just posted the link to show some possibilties. Imagine using a renecked .50 cal bmg round in a saiga....................



As long as the barrel is the proper length it's good to go. For example my Remington 1100 came with a smooth bore, but I bought a rifled barrel for it, and it is still a shot gun. No trouble here, and that is one of the reasons I wanted to have one.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users