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Major Saiga .308 Questions


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Allright, I don't know if these questions have been asked before, but I need to know.

 

I see a lot of you guys converting the shorter 16" Saiga .308s to fit with standard AK furnature. I have a Saiga .308 w/ 22" barrel, but I like my wood stock too much to convert it. I did deffinitely like the assault weapon look, though and was thinking about getting either a 16" Saiga.308 or a 16" Saiga 7.62x39 just to convert it, and was wondering how you would go about doing that.

 

I was actually wondering about the whole conversion process, and what had to be moved and whatnot. I was on the official Izhvesk site and it says that they make different models of Saigas with different stocks. More specifically, The Saiga 308-2 comes with a thumbhole sporter stock with the trigger group already moved up like on a normal AK, as does the Saiga-M chambered in 7.62x39. I was wondering if anyone knows if we can get these models here in the U.S. (or could when EAA still had their license) because the trigger group on these models are already in the right spot for a pistol grip, thus eliminating the need to modify the trigger group like on the Saiga 308-1 models. I also saw the same thing when it came to the Saiga shotguns. The models that already come with the pistol grip are Saiga 12K and Saiga 12S.

 

It would be cool to get those other models, because then we could use the Red Star Arms adjustable trigger group without modifying. Score :smoke: Which brings me to my next question: Is there any way to use the RSA trigger group in an un modified Saiga? Can't you cut and make the RSA trigger longer to fit or something? I've seen a few pics of your guys' Saigas here and there and I was wondering if you guys have figured out an adjustable trigger that works with the original stock. Say, lollygagger, it looks like you've kept the original rifle stock, have you got an adjustable trigger, and if so, what did you use?

 

And finally, I know this is a bit long, I've got one more question. Say I get another Saiga in the near future and want to put a thumbhole or pistol grip stock on it without modifying the trigger group/guard, what's my best course of action? I saw that cpileri had a couple stocks for sale. I really liked the look of them and was interested in how they function and how they look on the gun. If you guys can get me some pics or something that would deffinitely be cool.

 

That's about it for now. Any info that I can get would be great fellas. Thanks.

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First off until the new importer gets going they are getting harder to find. So be prepared to be looking a bit and spending a bit more.

 

They cannot import the already pistol gripped Saigas. They have to come into the counrty in the "sporter" configuration. So it will have to be converted here with us compliance parts. Which means that it can have no more than 10 foriegn parts. Which means you will have to replace 4 parts with us parts. This is true weather or not you move the trigger. If you add a pistol grip it has to have the parts. This can be difficult if you dont move the trigger as the trigger usually counts as 3 parts. I tried myself to just add a pistol grip without moving the trigger and found it too difficult to get the parts count. The converstion is simple and adds a lot of options and looks to your rifle. I personally dont recommend trying to just add a PG. The red star arms trigger cannot be used in an unmodified Saiga. You will have to convert to us that. The stock Saiga trigger has extra parts not needed in a regular AK trigger group.

 

You can try to modify a thumbhole stock to fit without conversion but is all the work of cutting and shaping worth the effort? I dont think so. I like you was hesitant about converting my gun and after I did I found it was super easy and well worth it.

 

Here is what I did when I didnt want to move the trigger...............

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=2690&hl=

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That's wierd, I thought the Saigas already had the right amount of parts to be legal in the states. I mean, I bought one. It shouldn't be illegal to simply change the stock on my Saiga, no matter what kind of stock it is, thumbhole, or pistol grip. Especially since the Assault Weapons Ban is over, it shouldn't matter what kind of stocks I put on my guns, should it?

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Jack-

The Assault Weapon Ban was concerned with 'evil features', i.e.: bayonet lugs, flash hiders, etc. A previous ban/regulation deals with the 'suitability' of imported firearms for 'sporting purposes'. This is why the Saigas are imported to this country in the funky configuration. In order to be converted to look like a real AK, you must comply with the 922r rule. This rule allows a maximum of 10 imported parts to be legal. So, if you want a real Saiga AK, the best way is to use a US buttstock, pistol grip and the three parts of the fire control group. If you add a muzzle device, make sure it is US made.

 

To recap- AWB went away last September, 922r did not.

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I don't have the link, and I don't remember which post was it, on this website, that talked about the thumbhole stocks vs. ATF.

 

But:

 

ATF has ruled that thumbhole stocks are not sporting. eg, an AK-type import weapon with a Dragunov style stock is not "sporting". Congress gave ATF the power to define "sporting" for import weapons with the Bush I gun control act. And all import weapons must be "sporting" or meet the domestic firearm criteria, ie, the 10 parts rule.

 

Thus, as an imported weapon, you will never see the thumbholed Saigas in the US, until we overturn the Bush I gun control act. If you want a thumbholed Saiga, you'll have to do it yourself.

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Yeah, I just talked with my gun guy at the shop, and he said pretty much the same thing. It kinda sucks. So, 922r says that you can only have a maximum of 10 forein parts on a gun? I thought that provision only applied to guns that were already designated as "assault weapons," and I know that the Saiga rifles are all designated as hunting sporter rifles. If you put a pistol grip on your gun does it actually "transform" your gun into an assault weapon, thus being put under provision 922r?

 

Not to bombard everybody with questions, but I keep hearing that you can't use the RSA adjustable trigger group for a Saiga .308 because the trigger group has extra parts that aren't needed. I was just down at the local gun shop today and was comparing the Saiga .308 to the Saiga 20 and Saiga .223. As far as I can see the .223 and 20 have extra trigger group parts to make the trigger pull more straight back, whereas the only difference in the S-.308 trigger group from a regular AK is that the trigger disconnector is elongated in the back to form the trigger, instead of just having the trigger come straight down. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with the RSA trigger group enough to tell me if you could alter the trigger disconnector enough to use it on an S-.308. My current trigger on my S-.308 seems pretty good as it is, although it would be nice to have the option to adjust it.

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Yeah, I know what it says on their site, I'm talkin' about has anybody had the courage to try and make it work. Like you know, taking it to a gunsmith and having him modify it?

 

Oh yeah, and can someone answer my first question about the 922r law?

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Pistol grip or thumbhole stock on a Saiga .308 = assault rifle configuration.

 

RSA trigger group = must be used on pistol gripped AK. Stock Saiga configuration will not work. All three parts of the trigger group work together. Really no use to mix and match the Saiga trigger to the RSA disconnector and hammer.

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Jack- 922-R 10 foregn parts MAX. that can be done without screwing with the trigger group. If you make a US stock (any stock from a larger rifle or shotgun will provide a decent donor) and a US handguard (requires a little more cleverness) and a US gas piston-and preso chango US made weapon!

With that said, I want to keep my Saiga woodie the way it is and still be able to LEGALLY use the magazines that friend Daewoo is making. So figuring out how to make the US trigger group work is one alternative. The other is doing what I laid out above, and putting the Saiga wood on my S-12! (decisions decisions!)

 

G O B

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