HOWARD COSELL 155 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Just curious on what you guys thought is the best sight for the Saiga 12. I'm running factory iron sights with the raised front barrel sight now. I was thinking about adding an Eotech, Kobra, Burris Fastfire II, Aimpoint T1 Micro or something along that line. If I do add anything, it will be attached by using the side plate. I don't have a top pic rail but I can get the quick detach side rail. Just wanted to pick your brains on the options and if I'm missing a good sight, please let me know. I am familiar with the Eotech but know nothing about the QUALITY of the others. OR should i just stick with the iron sights? Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 depends on what your intent is.. for clays I've been more then happy with the iron sites.. but then again for clays I dont really line it up on the sites so much... If you want long(ish) range slug shooting thats gonna be a different story.. shotguns are kinda versatile 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOWARD COSELL 155 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 depends on what your intent is.. for clays I've been more then happy with the iron sites.. but then again for clays I dont really line it up on the sites so much... If you want long(ish) range slug shooting thats gonna be a different story.. shotguns are kinda versatile Thanks for the quick response. I'm not too concerned about the clays. I have some other shotties for that. I just shoot OO Buck and sluggers through it. Basically, home defense, hunting and Zombie attacks . It is such a BADASS shotgun that I just want it to reach it's highest potential. I'm not 100% happy with the iron sights. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I am not much on scopes on Shotguns myself, but there are quite a few here that like them. As far as iron sights go, the Krebs gives the best sight picture and the H&K are the most popular. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOWARD COSELL 155 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I am not much on scopes on Shotguns myself, but there are quite a few here that like them. As far as iron sights go, the Krebs gives the best sight picture and the H&K are the most popular. Sorry Azrial, you know that I'm a noob. Does the Krebs attach to the dust cover. If it does, wouldn't that be a bad thing or am I wrong? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) No, the Krebs sights don't require welding, drilling, or cutting. They're very easy to install and work quite well. The Krebs rear sight replaces the factory rear sight and the fsb just bolts onto your barrel wherever you want it. The front sight post uses an AR sight tool for elevation adjustment and the rear sight can be drifted for windage, (if it's really necessary). Edited October 28, 2009 by post-apocalyptic 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I am not much on scopes on Shotguns myself, but there are quite a few here that like them. As far as iron sights go, the Krebs gives the best sight picture and the H&K are the most popular. Sorry Azrial, you know that I'm a noob. Does the Krebs attach to the dust cover. If it does, wouldn't that be a bad thing or am I wrong? Post-apocalyptic gave you the straight dope! Go to the Kreb's site HERE and look for Catalog Number 17. I had them on my previous S12, Go to my Gallery under my Profile and look for my "My First Saiga 12" to see the Krebs Sights installed. I have some Saigatech installed H&K sites installed on my current S12. You can see them here, under "My Saiga 12 - Closeup. There are several vendors here that also do this work. I like them, but they are not as fast as the Krebs! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crusader 64 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Just curious on what you guys thought is the best sight for the Saiga 12. I'm running factory iron sights with the raised front barrel sight now. I was thinking about adding an Eotech, Kobra, Burris Fastfire II, Aimpoint T1 Micro or something along that line. If I do add anything, it will be attached by using the side plate. I don't have a top pic rail but I can get the quick detach side rail. Just wanted to pick your brains on the options and if I'm missing a good sight, please let me know. I am familiar with the Eotech but know nothing about the QUALITY of the others. OR should i just stick with the iron sights? Thanks! This is what I did with mine. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=45748 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ragnar 10 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) Best site for a shotgun? The one you don't even notice. Edited October 28, 2009 by Ragnar Danneskjöld 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Best site for a shotgun? The one you don't even notice. Well Saiga-12.com is the best site for the Saiga Shotgun, there is little doubt of that, but... What does that even mean? There seems little purpose in sights that you "don't even notice." I mean you have to wonder why most folks go to the trouble with fluorescent sights or even to make them glow in dark if this is so. I guess that you could file the sights off all together if you think that the shotgun is some kind of magic stick, just kind of point it in a general direction and everything just disappears ... But, it is an opinion! I am curious of your logic in this matter? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TacSat 90 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Would have to go with Krebs cat #51 rear rail. and a True Glow Holo Sight. great for quick target acquisition. not to hard on the wallet. It is not a high end Holo. but it holds up nice and keeps zero. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 depends on what your intent is.. for clays I've been more then happy with the iron sites.. but then again for clays I dont really line it up on the sites so much... If you want long(ish) range slug shooting thats gonna be a different story.. shotguns are kinda versatile Thanks for the quick response. I'm not too concerned about the clays. I have some other shotties for that. I just shoot OO Buck and sluggers through it. Basically, home defense, hunting and Zombie attacks . It is such a BADASS shotgun that I just want it to reach it's highest potential. I'm not 100% happy with the iron sights. I don't know about hunting, but for HD and zombies I would question the need for an additional sight. I only use HK iron sights and a laser on my primary HD S12. With that and an attached flashlight I didn't want to add any more weight at all. Its true that you still have to aim a shotgun but "pinpoint" precision is just a little less important. There is also the question of how long any particular sight will hold up under the recoil of the S12. I would get to know your iron sights very well because I think you would be more comfortable reverting to them in a highly stressful situation anyway. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 For Irons, the Krebs are the best of the "easy install & relatively inexpensive" sights. If you want to take it a step higher in quality, as well as cost, AND authenticity (being that this is a Kalashnikov after all...) dinzag has some really nice ones that are more like the original AK sights. I know of some others that will be on the market before long as well Can't tell ya any more than that though. As for optics....Kobra all the way. Choice of four cool recticles & 15 brightness settings I think it is...I'll have to check mine. They are built as rugged as they come....waterproof & shockproof, good for use in all temps and conditions, built to attach right to the sight rail on the Saiga and AK. The PK-AS is also a good choice. This is funny....After I wrote that, and a few hours after I answered the OPs PMs from the hospital today, I did a quick search for "best red dot sight for AK-47" and found this thread over at the HR. It says about the same thing..... http://www.thehighro...ad.php?t=458215 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Like I was saying earlier though...for an S-12 that will be shooting lots of slugs and magnum buck, you probably should opt for the Kobra with the coin style battery, instead of the AAs. I've had no trouble with the contacts getting damaged on mine from recoil, but I've heard others say they have. The weight of the AA batteries pushing against the contacts can cause problems with heavy recoil....according to a few people. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Garys4598 1,065 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Ummm.... errrr.... and I say the best site for the Saiga-12 is the LaRue Tactical LT AK IronDot pictured on the AK below. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOWARD COSELL 155 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) Decisions, Decisions. This is harder than I thought it was going to be. One minute, I'm leaning toward the Krebs. Next minute, something else. Then back to the Krebs. I guess I will have to sleep on it another night. I appreciate all of your input and the "Straight Dope" . Thanks guys! Edited October 28, 2009 by THE RIPPER Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOWARD COSELL 155 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 For Irons, the Krebs are the best of the "easy install & relatively inexpensive" sights. If you want to take it a step higher in quality, as well as cost, AND authenticity (being that this is a Kalashnikov after all...) dinzag has some really nice ones that are more like the original AK sights. I know of some others that will be on the market before long as well Can't tell ya any more than that though. As for optics....Kobra all the way. Choice of four cool recticles & 15 brightness settings I think it is...I'll have to check mine. They are built as rugged as they come....waterproof & shockproof, good for use in all temps and conditions, built to attach right to the sight rail on the Saiga and AK. The PK-AS is also a good choice. This is funny....After I wrote that, and a few hours after I answered the OPs PMs from the hospital today, I did a quick search for "best red dot sight for AK-47" and found this thread over at the HR. It says about the same thing..... http://www.thehighro...ad.php?t=458215 How long before those other sights come out or can you say? Also, how does the glass on the Kobra compare to the glass on the Eotech? (glare) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crusader 64 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Like I was saying earlier though...for an S-12 that will be shooting lots of slugs and magnum buck, you probably should opt for the Kobra with the coin style battery, instead of the AAs. I've had no trouble with the contacts getting damaged on mine from recoil, but I've heard others say they have. The weight of the AA batteries pushing against the contacts can cause problems with heavy recoil....according to a few people. Cobra 7.62; what do you think about the XS sight mod that I did to my saiga 12? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Krebs FTW! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 ^ I got sick of the "crowded" sight picture in your middle pic above, and finally dremelled off the original bead. Well, I should say I mostly dremelled/filed it down. I left just enough to be helpful in realigning the front sight block should it ever become canted. I've since shot my S-12 a few times, both target at ~50yrds with slugs and busting clays with Federal Value Pack.. and I really do prefer the sight picture without that bead interfering partway down the sight radius. As for Cobra's opinion on the dinzag irons being better.. I gotta disagree. Sure, they are without a doubt more authentic to a Kalashnikov, but I doubt many here will disagree that aperture sights are more natural and quick to aim, and provide a more open sight picture, (all of which make them more generally effective), than traditional slot-n-post AK sights, (basically pistol sights). Ymmv. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BronCobraJet 80 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) I've got a HK type sight that I need to cut down, but have a tritium insert to go into it when I get it all set up. I thought that this was a good reaction sight when coupled with the Glock rear sight. Wouldn't this be a good set up? I like the HK style, because there is nothing to snag. For my next s-12 I plan on using some sort off side mounted red dot. Edited October 29, 2009 by BronCobraJet 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 I've got a HK type sight that I need to cut down, but have a tritium insert to go into it when I get it all set up. I thought that this was a good reaction sight when coupled with the Glock rear sight. Wouldn't this be a good set up? I like the HK style, because there is nothing to snag. For my next s-12 I plan on using some sort off side mounted red dot. Yeah, BCJ, that sounds great. I don't weld, (and didn't want to pay someone else to do it), so the HK sights were less of an option for me. One of the nice things about the Krebs sights is, they don't interfere with the receiver side-mount, so I can use it to put a red dot on whenever I'd like without fuckin with em. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 I have not seen every setup out there, obviously, but I have handled multiple S12s with a few different brands of red dots and they all sat too high for my liking. I was not able to have any kind of cheek weld. Perhaps there are set ups that could avoid this. I am toying with the idea of a fast fire II but I'll not be mounting it a side mount if I go that route. The reports I have read are that the fast fire does well on the S12. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 ^ I got sick of the "crowded" sight picture in your middle pic above, and finally dremelled off the original bead. Well, I should say I mostly dremelled/filed it down. I left just enough to be helpful in realigning the front sight block should it ever become canted. I've since shot my S-12 a few times, both target at ~50yrds with slugs and busting clays with Federal Value Pack.. and I really do prefer the sight picture without that bead interfering partway down the sight radius. As for Cobra's opinion on the dinzag irons being better.. I gotta disagree. Sure, they are without a doubt more authentic to a Kalashnikov, but I doubt many here will disagree that aperture sights are more natural and quick to aim, and provide a more open sight picture, (all of which make them more generally effective), than traditional slot-n-post AK sights, (basically pistol sights). Ymmv. Editing post....never mind...PA ain't worth it.... Dang Gary you love stirrin dat turd don't ya man? lol Ripper I've not had much experience with the overpriced (IMO) red dots. The Kobra is about as high as I'm willing to go in price. It comes with a hood to help with glare. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) Cobra, I'll cut you some slack and not say what I normally would here.. since I have some idea what you're going through. That said.. I was not "ragging" on Chile. He and I have discussed on a previous thread the benefits/drawbacks of leaving the original bead in place on a Krebs setup. I was merely mentioning that, since that discussion, I'd decided to take the bead down to interfere less with my sight picture. That's it.. Also, the fuck you mean when you say "He wasn't posting those pics so that someone like you could rag on them"? Someone like me? Elaborate. Let's also keep in mind that the Krebs sights include a polymer insert for that rear sight that turns them into more of a peep-sight than a ghost-ring. With that insert in place, accuracy with slugs at range is a whole different ballgame. When it comes to the adjustability of the standard AK sights, you won't get any argument from me.. yeah, they're more adjustable. That's truly useful on a rifle. Not so much on a damn shotgun that has a realistic effective range of ~100 yards using slugs. You really think you need that rear leaf elevation adjustment on a 12 gauge?! *deep breath* Fuck this argument, it's meaningless really, and I guess I understand why you're in a mood to pick a fight, Cobra. I just pray you beat this damn disease and as quickly as possible. Edited November 1, 2009 by post-apocalyptic 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Oh, now I'm "not worth it", eh Cobra? Jesus dude, you just can't stop insulting people for no damn reason, can ya? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Well, he's edited it out, but be assured, fellow S-12.com members, that the post of Cobra's that I react to above was a whole heaping pile of shit directed my way, for the terrible crime of daring to politely disagree with the almighty Cobra's immaculate opinion on S-12 iron sights. Damn my insolence. I need to go do penance for my sins 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOWARD COSELL 155 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 ^ I got sick of the "crowded" sight picture in your middle pic above, and finally dremelled off the original bead. Well, I should say I mostly dremelled/filed it down. I left just enough to be helpful in realigning the front sight block should it ever become canted. I've since shot my S-12 a few times, both target at ~50yrds with slugs and busting clays with Federal Value Pack.. and I really do prefer the sight picture without that bead interfering partway down the sight radius. As for Cobra's opinion on the dinzag irons being better.. I gotta disagree. Sure, they are without a doubt more authentic to a Kalashnikov, but I doubt many here will disagree that aperture sights are more natural and quick to aim, and provide a more open sight picture, (all of which make them more generally effective), than traditional slot-n-post AK sights, (basically pistol sights). Ymmv. Editing post....never mind...PA ain't worth it.... Dang Gary you love stirrin dat turd don't ya man? lol Ripper I've not had much experience with the overpriced (IMO) red dots. The Kobra is about as high as I'm willing to go in price. It comes with a hood to help with glare. How much did you pay for the Kobra? I got an Eotech 512 at the Sportman's Guide for a pretty good price. I am a club member and I buy from them a lot. They usually send a $10 off coupon with my shipment that you can use when you spend $99 or more. So with shipping, I think I paid about $365 for it. http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/eotech-512a65-1-reflex-sight.aspx?a=552691 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 ^ I got sick of the "crowded" sight picture in your middle pic above, and finally dremelled off the original bead. Well, I should say I mostly dremelled/filed it down. I left just enough to be helpful in realigning the front sight block should it ever become canted. I've since shot my S-12 a few times, both target at ~50yrds with slugs and busting clays with Federal Value Pack.. and I really do prefer the sight picture without that bead interfering partway down the sight radius. As for Cobra's opinion on the dinzag irons being better.. I gotta disagree. Sure, they are without a doubt more authentic to a Kalashnikov, but I doubt many here will disagree that aperture sights are more natural and quick to aim, and provide a more open sight picture, (all of which make them more generally effective), than traditional slot-n-post AK sights, (basically pistol sights). Ymmv. Editing post....never mind...PA ain't worth it.... Dang Gary you love stirrin dat turd don't ya man? lol Ripper I've not had much experience with the overpriced (IMO) red dots. The Kobra is about as high as I'm willing to go in price. It comes with a hood to help with glare. How much did you pay for the Kobra? I got an Eotech 512 at the Sportman's Guide for a pretty good price. I am a club member and I buy from them a lot. They usually send a $10 off coupon with my shipment that you can use when you spend $99 or more. So with shipping, I think I paid about $365 for it. http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/eotech-512a65-1-reflex-sight.aspx?a=552691 Kobras can be a bit less, but I think you did well on the EOTech. I'd rather buy a proven US-made red dot than take my chances and possibly receive one of the many fake Kobras floating around on "teh interweb". To put it another way; I'd love an authentic Kobra.. but there's nothing at all wrong with an EOTech and they're made in the US. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BronCobraJet 80 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Yikes! I never priced the red dots, just fantasised. $365 or more? I'll stick with my $15 dollar HK that I will need to cut down and weld and the $50 tritium night sights and Glock rear sights. Until I actually feel and shoot any other. Not likely here in the breadbasket (armmpit?) of the nation. Wolverines! lol. I'm not just a cheapskate, I'm the president of cheapskate sights. As long as they are durable and work. I'm the only one I know with 2 s-12's and 2 drums. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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