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The truth about WASR 10/63's


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#1 canoecanoe

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 11:48 AM

I know there are some really bad ones out there, but there are still a lot of good ones withiout canted gas blocks, canted sights and that function flawlessly. I'm not trying to compare these to a Saiga, but why are folks so down on these?

Are they AK snobs?

I want your honest opinion and personal experience, not just "what they say".

Edited by canoecanoe, 29 October 2009 - 11:49 AM.

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#2 nalioth

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 11:54 AM

There is no "what they say", there is only "what is".

The WASR is a by-product of the Romanian AK industry. They started out being made from AK parts rejected by the military QC inspectors, and are currently being produced from cut-up Romanian military AKs. Do you really want a "new gun" with the chrome flaking out of the barrel? Do you really want a "new gun" that in it's former life was the "test-to-destruction" rifle for the Romanian military gun testing unit?


Saigas are all brand new construction, with many of the parts coming right off the military production line.

Edited by nalioth, 29 October 2009 - 11:54 AM.

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#3 Azrial

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 12:03 PM

One of the problems is that people confuse the WASR with all Romainian AKs. The 80's kits were great, the only problems then are the builder!
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#4 thehopping1

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 12:46 PM

My buddy has a WASR 10 and loves it. He has had it for years and it shoots strait and flawlessly. However, I still give him a hard time when he says my Saiga is not a "real AK". At least I can trust my life with mine and I put all the rounds down range. Some are good riffles none the less.
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#5 yes

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 01:15 PM

My buddy has a WASR 10 and loves it. He has had it for years and it shoots strait and flawlessly. However, I still give him a hard time when he says my Saiga is not a "real AK". At least I can trust my life with mine and I put all the rounds down range. Some are good riffles none the less.


That's funny, my WASR 10 buddy does the same thing.

#6 yakdung

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 01:46 PM

W = what
A =
a
S =
sorry ass
R
= rifle

Avoid this thing if possible.

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#7 volkov

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 03:14 PM

if you want to know.. go to any gun show.. most of the AKs there will be WASR's.. You'll find the majority of them to be pretty shoddy.. But the funny thing is at the last gunshow I went to the nice condition WASRs were around the same price as the other ones.. Found it interesting..

#8 canoecanoe

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 03:52 PM

Thanks for all of the comments. I realize that they are definitely not top of the line, but it seems to me that there is a place for these. Maybe not for the purists, but for those that want something on the AK platform and don't want to convert or pay the extra for a top notch AK. Or maybe as a back up. It's still an AK, isn't it?
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#9 Azrial

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 04:13 PM

A quality Non-Century build, using a good 80's Romy G kit, is easily the equal or better than a Saiga.
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#10 volkov

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 04:16 PM

yeah, the WASR is still an ak.. it still shoots bullets pretty reliably... but you get what you pay for. They arn't as accurate or as reliable, but they do their job..

Edited by volkov, 29 October 2009 - 04:16 PM.


#11 Arik

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 05:17 PM

yeah, the WASR is still an ak.. it still shoots bullets pretty reliably... but you get what you pay for. They arn't as accurate or as reliable, but they do their job..


I agree with the accuracy but as far as reliability IMO they are just as good.

I have the POS Century Romanian RPK (AES-10B). About a month ago I was shooting it at the range when I realized something wasnt quite right. I checked it from the outside...looked ok. Shot some more still a funny feeling that something wasnt right and the trigger now felt a little weird. I opened the dust cover to find that the 2 pins holding the FCG had completely come out from the right side of the receiver and were now just laying inside held down by the FCG, the hammer severely canted to the right and the spring was barely holding on. WTF? right!?!?! I figured I've been shooting like this for a little bit now so just to test I put the cover back on it, loaded 5rnds into the mag, pulled the trigger 5 times and the rifle went BANG 5 times. Still worked!! Looks like the holes for the pins are to big so now it just sits until I figure out what to do with it.

Call it what you like but its nothing if not reliable!!!!

Edited by Arik, 29 October 2009 - 05:23 PM.


#12 Saigafreake

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 06:08 PM

there is nothing wrong with getting a wasr there are rough and ugly just like every other ak around the world. but the us market wants a rifle just as neat and clean as there ar15.
stamped or milled its all kalashnikov in the middle.

#13 KrisFox

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 06:17 PM


yeah, the WASR is still an ak.. it still shoots bullets pretty reliably... but you get what you pay for. They arn't as accurate or as reliable, but they do their job..


I agree with the accuracy but as far as reliability IMO they are just as good.

I have the POS Century Romanian RPK (AES-10B). About a month ago I was shooting it at the range when I realized something wasnt quite right. I checked it from the outside...looked ok. Shot some more still a funny feeling that something wasnt right and the trigger now felt a little weird. I opened the dust cover to find that the 2 pins holding the FCG had completely come out from the right side of the receiver and were now just laying inside held down by the FCG, the hammer severely canted to the right and the spring was barely holding on. WTF? right!?!?! I figured I've been shooting like this for a little bit now so just to test I put the cover back on it, loaded 5rnds into the mag, pulled the trigger 5 times and the rifle went BANG 5 times. Still worked!! Looks like the holes for the pins are to big so now it just sits until I figure out what to do with it.

Call it what you like but its nothing if not reliable!!!!


Sounds like the retaining wire for your FCG popped out of place. Push the pins back in place and replace the retaining wire and you'll be GTG.
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#14 Flashbang

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 09:15 PM



yeah, the WASR is still an ak.. it still shoots bullets pretty reliably... but you get what you pay for. They arn't as accurate or as reliable, but they do their job..


I agree with the accuracy but as far as reliability IMO they are just as good.

I have the POS Century Romanian RPK (AES-10B). About a month ago I was shooting it at the range when I realized something wasnt quite right. I checked it from the outside...looked ok. Shot some more still a funny feeling that something wasnt right and the trigger now felt a little weird. I opened the dust cover to find that the 2 pins holding the FCG had completely come out from the right side of the receiver and were now just laying inside held down by the FCG, the hammer severely canted to the right and the spring was barely holding on. WTF? right!?!?! I figured I've been shooting like this for a little bit now so just to test I put the cover back on it, loaded 5rnds into the mag, pulled the trigger 5 times and the rifle went BANG 5 times. Still worked!! Looks like the holes for the pins are to big so now it just sits until I figure out what to do with it.

Call it what you like but its nothing if not reliable!!!!


Sounds like the retaining wire for your FCG popped out of place. Push the pins back in place and replace the retaining wire and you'll be GTG.

I dont know...he said they came out of the right side of the gun. The holes on the left are supposed to be smaller to hold one end of the pin in place....or am I mistaken?
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#15 post-apocalyptic

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 11:16 PM

Well, I've only owned one GP WASR 10/63 rifle; one that I bought near the height of the panic, (for ~$650). It had a rough finish, but the part #'s all matched, the barrel rifling was just fine, the magwell was very tight, and there was no cant to the fsb. It was dead on at 50 yds right out of the box. It was a great shooter and I probably would have kept it if I hadn't been able to sell it locally ftf for a profit! I made ~$150 off that deal. :D

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#16 Ben Vampatella

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 11:19 PM

In light of what is happening, and my loyalties, I am going to be selling a hand pick SAR1, and getting a saiga 7.62s39 in its place.


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#17 post-apocalyptic

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 11:22 PM

So will you be posting that sale in the private sales section of the forum, Bvamp?

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#18 bigsal

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 12:43 AM

A quality Non-Century build, using a good 80's Romy G kit, is easily the equal or better than a Saiga.


Based on what criteria? Kit builds tend to be worse than factory builds as a rule. Im not sure you thought that through.

Russian AK > Romanian AK.... not the other way around.
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#19 nalioth

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 07:22 AM

Based on what criteria? Kit builds tend to be worse than factory builds as a rule. Im not sure you thought that through.


I disagree.

A kit builds' quality depends on a few things:

1) condition of donor kit (obviously a kit from an unissued rifle is gonna make a better rifle than one where the kit came from the "test-to-destruction" rifle belonging to the weapon testing unit)

2) skill of builder (should be obvious - Hesse can f**k up a wet dream)

3) methods of build (again, do you really want Posted Image to glue your gun together? Do you want it professionally blasted, parked and painted, or just sandpapered and spray painted with $1.99 walmart spray paint?)

4) condition of receiver (did Joe Public bend his own receiver, and it is actually done right or did he get a Nodak Spud, AKReceivers.com or Elk River receiver for his build?)


Again, I disagree with your "rule".
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#20 bigsal

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 02:36 PM


Based on what criteria? Kit builds tend to be worse than factory builds as a rule. Im not sure you thought that through.


I disagree.

A kit builds' quality depends on a few things:

1) condition of donor kit (obviously a kit from an unissued rifle is gonna make a better rifle than one where the kit came from the "test-to-destruction" rifle belonging to the weapon testing unit)

2) skill of builder (should be obvious - Hesse can f**k up a wet dream)

3) methods of build (again, do you really want Posted Image to glue your gun together? Do you want it professionally blasted, parked and painted, or just sandpapered and spray painted with $1.99 walmart spray paint?)

4) condition of receiver (did Joe Public bend his own receiver, and it is actually done right or did he get a Nodak Spud, AKReceivers.com or Elk River receiver for his build?)


Again, I disagree with your "rule".


My "rule" cannot be disagreed with. Therefore you are incorrect. Lets look at the factory Russian builds vs, ANY Romy G kit:
1.The Russian factory paint job is superior to the rommy one and anything short of moly over park (which excludes 90%+ of kit builders who use crappy duracoat and/or spray paint from wal mart.
2. The barrel on rifles coming out of izhmash are produced using precision robotics (I assume youve seen the promo video with the robot arm), the Rommy barrels are produced using the 'fat-drunk-guy-with-a-hammer' technique perfected by the Cugir factory (maybe a bit of a stretch, but not by much, as the saiga rifling is obviously better).
3: US receivers are all over the place in terms of quality (just like your posts Nalioth :haha: ). Izzy receivers are consistently awesome.
4:The saiga rifles are shipped new, only test fired. The Rommy G kits are all over the place in terms of their "condition"

Lots more reasons, but 4 should be enough to get you thinking. Don't get me wrong, I own a highly modified SAR rifle, and I will own a WASR 10/63 when they go down below $300, so I am not a Rommy hater, I just cannot believe you are comparing their gear to the Izzy factory gear....

Shame on you!
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#21 Saigafreake

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 02:52 PM

i believe nalioth was refering to not just romanian kits but all kits in general.
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#22 nalioth

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 04:22 PM

i believe nalioth was refering to not just romanian kits but all kits in general.

Yep, in general.



Based on what criteria? Kit builds tend to be worse than factory builds as a rule. Im not sure you thought that through.


I disagree.

A kit builds' quality depends on a few things:

1) condition of donor kit (obviously a kit from an unissued rifle is gonna make a better rifle than one where the kit came from the "test-to-destruction" rifle belonging to the weapon testing unit)

2) skill of builder (should be obvious - Hesse can f**k up a wet dream)

3) methods of build (again, do you really want Posted Image to glue your gun together? Do you want it professionally blasted, parked and painted, or just sandpapered and spray painted with $1.99 walmart spray paint?)

4) condition of receiver (did Joe Public bend his own receiver, and it is actually done right or did he get a Nodak Spud, AKReceivers.com or Elk River receiver for his build?)


Again, I disagree with your "rule".


My "rule" cannot be disagreed with. Therefore you are incorrect. Lets look at the factory Russian builds vs, ANY Romy G kit:
1.The Russian factory paint job is superior to the rommy one and anything short of moly over park (which excludes 90%+ of kit builders who use crappy duracoat and/or spray paint from wal mart.
2. The barrel on rifles coming out of izhmash are produced using precision robotics (I assume youve seen the promo video with the robot arm), the Rommy barrels are produced using the 'fat-drunk-guy-with-a-hammer' technique perfected by the Cugir factory (maybe a bit of a stretch, but not by much, as the saiga rifling is obviously better).
3: US receivers are all over the place in terms of quality (just like your posts Nalioth :haha: ). Izzy receivers are consistently awesome.
4:The saiga rifles are shipped new, only test fired. The Rommy G kits are all over the place in terms of their "condition"

Lots more reasons, but 4 should be enough to get you thinking. Don't get me wrong, I own a highly modified SAR rifle, and I will own a WASR 10/63 when they go down below $300, so I am not a Rommy hater, I just cannot believe you are comparing their gear to the Izzy factory gear....

Shame on you!

I was making a remark as to the "generality" of kit builds, not comparing a Romy G kit build to a factory Izhmash product.

2. Romanian AK barrels are produced using Steyr process hammer forging machinery, not a 'fat-drunk-guy-with-a-hammer' (that guy is the one on the FSB install line :haha:)
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#23 AllJacks

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 11:47 PM

Correct me if I'am wrong but was'nt the WASR's a single stack magazine setup reamed out to take a double stack mag?
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#24 nalioth

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 11:49 PM

Correct me if I'am wrong but was'nt the WASR's a single stack magazine setup reamed out to take a double stack mag?

They are imported as single-stackers, indeed.
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#25 Tha Dave

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 10:18 AM

I used to have a WASR10/63 (sold it to buy diapers and food) that I on more than one occasion out shot higher end AKs MAK 90s and Yugo M70s were the most common. After a while I got a good deal on a Siaga 7.62x39 with the conversion already partly done. It is by far more accurate and just as realible and as much fun to shoot. Maybe I just got the rare good WASR but from my experance they are just as good as many of the more expensive models. If i get the chance to buy anonther WASR i dont think I would pass it up. For what you pay they are great rifles!

Edited by Tha Dave, 29 April 2010 - 10:19 AM.


#26 rob-cubed

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 11:38 AM

I'd say you got a rare good WASR. Mine can only do 5-6" MOA @100 yards, more than double the best groups on my Saiga.

Saigas are superior to WASRs IMO, but the older Romy kits can turn out pretty nice.

However WASRs are generally as reliable and rugged as any other AK, and I like the fact that it they have a y-stamp on the receiver... which is completely cosmetic of course, but still cool.

#27 BuffetDestroyer

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 12:33 PM

I'd say the WASR is an acceptable entry rifle, but it isn't going to win any awards for looks or craftsmanship. For the money, I would look into an SKS (about $250) if you are looking for something that is reasonably accurate, durable, and capable as a defensive rifle for even less money than the WASR.

But if you are a poor college student that wants a "cool" range blaster (i.e. hitting a milkjug at 15 yards with 5% accuracy from your hip) for $350, then it would be fine. A Saiga will run about the same $$$ but doesn't look as cool out of the box. However, with a little bit of investment in time and parts, you can have a weapon that is significantly better than the WASR.

The Arsenal Saiga's are fucking awesome if you want something more refined without having to work on it yourself!
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#28 Citizen Bob

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 03:22 PM

The WASR-10 was my first and only AK rifle until recently, so I can't compare it with the others. I've had no issues and nothing but fun with it. I researched before buying, knew what I was getting into, and kept my expectations realistic. I guess I bought it about 5 or 6 years ago and have been happy enough that I've felt no need to buy another AK. Well... except until the recent low-priced PSLs came along!

#29 YWHIC

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 06:15 PM

When I went to the last show a few folks had WASR's for $400 or so..

If I see one next time (down at the Philly show May 22nd) I will more than likely buy one if everything appears straight and tight fitting.. I just want the cosmetic 'Y' stamp.. Posted Image and the WOOD trim.

Don't see the point of buying sight unseen for $370, and then the Xfer fee $35 kicks in when it gets here.
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#30 L5K

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 08:37 PM

My 10/63 has been a flawless rifle. It was ugly, but everything works like it should, and operates just as smooth as my Saiga in 5.45

If anyone really believes a communist nation was saving "rejected" parts in huge piles in the 70's and 80's just so that they could eventually sell them to buyers in the US after the fall of the Soviet Union, then you might also be interested in some dihydrogen monoxide I have for sale as well. Lets think about this for a second... You really think that the Soviets didn't melt down any rejected parts to be used to make better parts? Why would they save these thousands of parts that they had no use for in huge piles? That's an atrocious waste of resources for a regime that was bent on squeezing every ounce of efficiency from it's workers. The main problem that WASR's suffer from is the fact that they are cheap. This means two things. One, is that people assume they are far worse than more expensive rifles, and two, more people buy them. The Romanian AK's make up more of the US market than any other country of origin. More rifles means that odds are better of one having a problem. If they put out twice as many AK's as another country, there will be twice as many that have problems. Not long ago everyone was also bashing those cheap Chinese bullet hoses... What happened to that?
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