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The truth about WASR 10/63's


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#61 Blazer76

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 02:23 PM

are we really compairing saiga's vs wasr's? wasr's aren't as reliabe as saiga's? THERE ALL AK'S yea ok my 10/63 is rough but I know when i throw a mag in it every time i pull the trigger it will GO BANG siga's are more accurate? IT's an AK
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#62 Floyd

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 07:55 PM

If your definition of a good gun is one that's pretty, has a lot of options and upgrades and prints 1 inch groups, no, it's not a good gun. If your definition of a good gun is something that runs any ammo, fires dirty, dry or clogged with mud, is durable and dependable and can hit a man sized target at the max effective range of your cartridge, then the Wasr is a good gun.
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#63 ShadowFire

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 12:38 PM

I'm gonna have to take the side of the WASR guys here. Push comes to shove, Romanian, Bulgarian, Russian, they're all Kalashnikov rifles. They are all designed to be reliable and be accurate enough to put a round into a man sized target.

The real issue is not who made the rifle but the rounds the user shoots. Surplus rounds are less accurate, we know this, if you don't, ask an AK owner who is a reloader. A whole lot of people out there ask too much of the current design which has not changed very much since the first few were issued in the Soviet military.

These rifles were made to answer the issue at hand after WWII. The issue being magazine capacity, ability to suppress hostile targets and still be accurate enough to address the discovered fact that (at that time), most engagements still managed to take place with in 700 yards. So that means the rifle had to be able to put lead on target at the range when it mattered most.

The AK answers that while still being simple enough to be able to be used by conscript troops and people in general looking to use it to protect their lives, prosperity and families. We know the 7.62x39 round will take down a deer at closer ranges (like around here where you normally may never need to take a 6 to 700 yard shot.) so we know it will do the deed to defend ourselves should we ever have to use it (God forbid it.).

You want accuracy from a 16 inch barreled rifle shooting an intermediate range cartridge? Get an AR. But if you need decent accuracy, legendary reliability and simplicity, get a Kalashnikov.

The AK will do the deed, just don't expect it to pick a flea off of a dog's back at 800 yards. For that, you need something else.

Truth is there are good apples and bad apples in every bunch.
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#64 G O B

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 10:47 AM

A quality Non-Century build, using a good 80's Romy G kit, is easily the equal or better than a Saiga.


+1 I built a 'rusty Romy' on a NoDak spud receiver. Total build was WAY under $300. Including FFL Xfer!

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#65 Floyd

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 04:26 PM

Good luck getting a G for less than a Saiga these days tho... The kits alone seem to go for about 350$ with even non matching parts. Saiga conversion is a way better deal these days. You may not have a cleaning rod or fancy grips, but you can easily do a basic conversion with quality parts for about 450 these days.

#66 unearthlyevil

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 10:48 PM

I bought my 10/63 about a month ago at Dunhams for $449 and have had no issues so far. It is tight with no wobble, and came with two double stack mags. I'm doing a furniture upgrade that should be done tomorrow. I'll post a few photos once I'm done. Yeah it's not as "pretty" as my AR, but it still rocks when I need it to.

#67 Illusion420

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 12:43 PM

You want accuracy from a 16 inch barreled rifle shooting an intermediate range cartridge? Get an AR. But if you need decent accuracy, legendary reliability and simplicity, get a Kalashnikov.



well then... what about a Saiga, 223 with a 20" bbl! ha! ( just saying, cus thats what i have lol)
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#68 Floyd

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 08:59 PM

You want accuracy from a 16 inch barreled rifle shooting an intermediate range cartridge? Get an AR. But if you need decent accuracy, legendary reliability and simplicity, get a Kalashnikov.


Don't get me started on this...

I think if you objectively compare the accuracy of a well made AK with that of an AR of the same price, you will have a gun of comparable accuracy.

#69 ShadowFire

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 10:10 PM


You want accuracy from a 16 inch barreled rifle shooting an intermediate range cartridge? Get an AR. But if you need decent accuracy, legendary reliability and simplicity, get a Kalashnikov.


Don't get me started on this...

I think if you objectively compare the accuracy of a well made AK with that of an AR of the same price, you will have a gun of comparable accuracy.


I'm just going by the majority of what is out there on the market. That's all. And the majority of what is out there on the market is AKs sold on a total cost that is a few hundred less than an AR.

As for the same quality build from dead scratch thrown up against the AR, now were talkin. :) Cuz I see what you see, potential.

Make no mistake, I STILL think the AK can be better than an AR. Which is why I prefer an AK over an AR. No haterade here. :)


You want accuracy from a 16 inch barreled rifle shooting an intermediate range cartridge? Get an AR. But if you need decent accuracy, legendary reliability and simplicity, get a Kalashnikov.



well then... what about a Saiga, 223 with a 20" bbl! ha! ( just saying, cus thats what i have lol)
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That's why I specified 16 inch. I saw a longer barrel comment coming. ;)

Have you put it up against a 20 inch barreled AR yet? I'd be curious as to what you will find as results. Never seen the range report on a 20" Saiga vs 20" AR before.

I've also noticed sights are a BIG issue to the AK. When guys put peep sights similar in function to the AR on the rear of a tightly fitted top cover it makes quite a bit of a difference. But then you start to step outside of what you find out there that is "straight from the factory".
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#70 unearthlyevil

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 06:47 PM

I bought my 10/63 about a month ago at Dunhams for $449 and have had no issues so far. It is tight with no wobble, and came with two double stack mags. I'm doing a furniture upgrade that should be done tomorrow. I'll post a few photos once I'm done. Yeah it's not as "pretty" as my AR, but it still rocks when I need it to.


As promised, here are the photos I said I would post. Apologies for the delay, I've been pretty busy. I am also posting a photo of 20 rounds at about 50 yards, I'm sure it won't impress everyone, but it was done standing, open sights. I'll be doing some shots further out soon and we'll see how it fares.


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#71 cbr

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 06:24 PM


You want accuracy from a 16 inch barreled rifle shooting an intermediate range cartridge? Get an AR. But if you need decent accuracy, legendary reliability and simplicity, get a Kalashnikov.


Don't get me started on this...

I think if you objectively compare the accuracy of a well made AK with that of an AR of the same price, you will have a gun of comparable accuracy.


Lets be honest the AR is far more accurate than the AK it is just the difference in operational mechanics of each firearm, with the AK you have a giant chunk of metal slamming against the back of the receiver then hurled forward. Its a fact you just cant work around, that being said I still prefer AKs my time in the military should me clear as day the flaws with the M4.

The AK is a great platform however it was never designed to be a accurate firearm at range.

Edited by cbr, 06 November 2011 - 06:27 PM.


#72 MT Predator

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 11:41 PM

The AK is a great platform however it was never designed to be a accurate firearm at range.

Don't get me wrong as I love my AKs. So, what range is the AK accurate at then according to your statement? (Never designed to be accurate at range). Have you ever read Soviet Doctrine regarding the implementation of the AK on the battlefield? They were not supposed to be used for sustained fire, just spray and pray, something you and I do not have with our compliant civilian AKs. Hell, Russian paratroops were trained to provide automatic fire with them under canopy while descending to the ground. Accurate? When you are talking about thousands of Russian Infantry firing in this fashion at the same time, maybe yes. Somebody is going to get hit. Why do you think the SVD was in service at the same time? I know tactics in Russia have changed since the Cold War and they have changed how they implement the AK, but have you ever seen how the same weapon is utilized in Africa, Iraq, Afghanistan? Same shit as the original Doctrine, spray and pray. It is a better platform to combat the elements on the battlefield by the design which in fact is almost an accident due to the less than accurate tolerances designed into the weapon because of the mass manufacturing capabilities of that time. Accuracy suffers because of that. Not meaning to turn this into an AK vs AR argument but you should know from your time in the military that your M4 if maintained properly, would still out-shoot a "Russian short" rifle any day and is a reliable weapon when cared for. Any flaws you experienced were probably user negligence. As long as you keep her wet, it'll run until you can break her down and clean it properly.

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Your finish looks cool. Original Romy wood refinishedr? I like the color scheme!
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#73 cbr

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 05:53 PM

Don't get me wrong as I love my AKs. So, what range is the AK accurate at then according to your statement? have you ever seen how the same weapon is utilized in Africa, Iraq, Afghanistan? .



The AK47 is not accurate as I stated before you cant deny the operational aspect of the firearm when compared to the M4/AR. I can ring plates at 100yds (iron sights) every time with my AK I can do the same with my AR at 200 and farther. There is a lot to consider like the VERY short sight radius of the AK also the hard to use notch rear sight. The AR peep sights have a much longer sight radius plus far easier to use.

I spent a little time in the sandbox im fully aware of what the AK can do. Even with the short barreled M4 we could still reach out and touch em while they dint have a chance in hell of hitting us. Half the time they would just death blossom.

Again im not bashing the AK as i said before I prefer the AK. The weapon has remained so popular for several reasons, first is its cost the AK cost almost nothing to produce and requires no precise machinery what so ever. Second it requires almost no training to operate evident by most who use it in the middle east with their famous stock tucked under the arm pray and spray as the run like mad. Third it will run no matter what, I have seen them run missing the cover and with a missing stock full of all kinds of crap.

Edited by cbr, 09 November 2011 - 06:05 PM.


#74 unearthlyevil

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 04:13 PM

That is the black laminate stock set from Timbersmith.

#75 Buford T Justice

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:07 PM

I have been looking at a WARS at a local gun ship for $479. I am no expert but it seems ok the sight is slightly turned but is located dead on top center of the barrel. Is that what you call canted? I did notice a date of 1972 on it. I have been thinking of seeing what kind of trade in I could get on my Yugo SKS.

#76 Colorado AK

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 08:12 AM

I have both a WASR and an Arsenal/Saiga SGL21. While the Arsenal is obviously a far better rifle in terms of for and finish, and hence shoots two-inch groups at 100yds all day long, the WASR has been a reliable rifle with acceptable accuracy, shooting 3-5 inch groups depending on the ammo. The Arsenal is tacticooled up with rails, foregrip, Vortex SPARC, trigger job and NATO stock, the WASR is totally original except for a NIKON VSR red-dot mounted on a standard side mount. Both have over 3000 rounds through them with zero hiccups, the Arsenal has been cleaned twice, the WASR HAS NEVER BEEN CLEANED aside from a quick boresnaking every 500 rounds or so. I recommend everybody start with a WASR, its a great value, and when you buy an Arsenal/Saiga or other higher end AK variant, it will help you appreciate the effort that resultant in the higher cost. By the way, I'm new here, name's John, and I am a Comblok addict.

#77 Iceberg

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:17 PM

I just picked up a new GP WASR 10/63, it has the Romanian Military (RomArm/Cugir) triangle w/arrow stamped on the trunion. The rifle is also stamped with the date of mfg 1970 and the S/N. These new WASRs are much higher quality than the ones that were sold 10 years ago. The bolt & carrier have very few machining marks and are well finished & there are also no front sight or gas block cant issues. It's build quality is pretty close to that of my new RomArm Draco. The WASR 10/63 has a threaded bbl w/ slant break, correct pinned gas piston, bayo lug, Tapco G2 FCG, matching numbered parts, & very little mag wobble (less than the Draco w/ receiver dimples). I did have to clean up the rough finished military grade laminated stock w/ some 300 Grit wet/dry sand paper & boiled Lindseed Oil, but it came our great. It also did not come w/ a cleaning rod, but I had a spare in my parts bin. Other than the far more expensive Arsenal models, this is a great buy & the only new AK on the market w/ correct spec former Comblock chrome plated chambers & bbls.
Before:
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After W/ Cleaning Rod & Romanian PG:
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Edited by Iceberg, 30 November 2011 - 09:31 PM.


#78 canoecanoe

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 12:52 PM

Got rid of my WASR awhile back, but I picked up a SAR1. I love it. I am trading for another one Saturday. Traded one of my AR's for it, some ammo and some cash boot. The Ar is more trouble to clean. I love the simplicity of the AK and the ease of cleaning it.

What is y'alls opinion of the SAR 1?
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#79 mancat

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 09:35 AM

SAR-1s are great rifles but are subject to the same possible canted components that have given the WASR a bad name, so make sure to pay close attention to the next SAR-1 you pick up. Also, many SAR-1s lacked barrel threads or a bayonet lug, and some barrels were even turned down at the muzzle to prevent the owner adding threads.

I love Romanian AKs (including the WASR) and would own many more if my wallet allowed me to. I have been itching to do a Draco SBR build, but Washington state won't allow it.

Edited by mancat, 02 December 2011 - 09:36 AM.


#80 S-12 Pauly

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 08:31 PM

I know ya'll are gonna crucify me, but I'm so damn busy I don't have time to work on my own guns. Posted Image

Eventually I'll do an S-.39 for myself, but I recently decided I needed something to put .39 down range that was ready to rock right out of the box. "Just in case".......
Being as I'm a wood guy, the WASR fit the bill & I picked up a bunch of Chinese steel core to go with it.

My gas block is great, it has a bayonet lug & shoots reliably.
Good rifling & seemingly good build.
I picked it up locally so was able to inspect. I'm not big on buying firearms sight-unseen.

Mine's a reliable shooter & will get me by until I have the time to build a Saiga 39, but with a long turnaround like I currently have, I can't justify taking a week to build a S-.39 like I like them, which is classic AK.

Needless to say, it'll work for the urban environment I live in & after I do what I do with the wood & internals I'll be able to sell it for a hefty profit & fund the S-.39.

One thing people leave out here, is the fact the the WASRs are interchangeable with most other AK's so parts are more abundant than the Saiga... Also, the bolt is much beefier than an S-.308 as well as the bolt being more refined.

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#81 DrThunder88

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 03:40 AM

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I'm just kidding! There's a proverb about cobblers' children going barefoot that seems to hold true in most fields.

I picked up a WASR a few weeks ago when they were on sale for $400. Hand-inspecting is really the only way to go unless you like a crapshoot. It's a pretty good one too. With a 4x POSP and regular Wolf or Herters steel case, it put up some impressive 2x3" groups at 100 yards.

#82 Buford T Justice

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 08:49 PM

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I'm just kidding! There's a proverb about cobblers' children going barefoot that seems to hold true in most fields.

I picked up a WASR a few weeks ago when they were on sale for $400. Hand-inspecting is really the only way to go unless you like a crapshoot. It's a pretty good one too. With a 4x POSP and regular Wolf or Herters steel case, it put up some impressive 2x3" groups at 100 yards.


I would sure like to find one for $400. Around me they are from $479-$549.

#83 DrThunder88

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 05:19 AM

Dunhams Sporting Goods will occasionally have "Sunday and Monday"-only sales around here. That's when I got mine.

#84 Warthog35F

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:13 AM

Hi all,,, I also bought a WASR 10-63(Dunham's 379.00) back in May....since then I have ran 160 rounds threw it with no issues,,,but someday would like to own a Arsenal SGL....for myself it's a nice starter gun (AK platform)....thanks,

I got mine at dunhams also were you located man maybe we can shoot it up some time

#85 Warthog35F

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:25 AM

I think most people who are saying wasr 10/63 are cheap, not as reliable as saiga, not as accurate, ect have never owned one or never shot one.

A gun is only as good as how well it shoots, and how long it will last reliably.

My WASR shoots just as good as my buddies AR15 16" with irons out around 200 yards. My WASR has never jammed, and I think I have cleaned it once or twice. My sights are not canted as far as I can tell, but I have seen some older wasr non 10/63 with sight cant...

So let's see, for $300 I have a accurate reliable AK that I would trust to go bang at anytime to save my life. I believe my WASR will out live me and continue going bang long after im dead.

People who say a SKS is a better gun are being snobby. They are two different platforms. Yes some SKS's can be more accurate than AK's, but a shit load of them can also be a hell of a lot less reliable and a lot of them not more accurate. SKS is not a AK, and nothing replaces 30 rounds of bang for the price / cost of a AK.

IF you own a Saiga 7.69 or some other more expensive AK great!!! Just don't act snobby and try to justify the cost by posting misleading information about a quality firearm.

My Saiga 12 was a vodka special from factory, and I hear a shit load of saiga 7.62x39 are also. This DOES NOT MAKE THEM BAD GUNS!!!, Just bad in the form they are in.... ANY AK type gun just like an AR can have problems from the factory, and lucky for US most AK's are extremely simple to work on and fix.

Century has had some problems sure, it's a $300 gun. IF you have a problem send it in, it will be fixed problem solved!!!
ALL GUN MAKES/MODELS can and DO BREAK/HAVE PROBLEMS. They are all machines made by man, and some have flaws. The challenge we have is picking out the guns that do not have these flaws.


The simple TRUTH and fact is there is a whole shit load more WASR 10/63's that are great reliable guns than there are bad ones. I would even bet that 98% of them are all reliable firearms that rarely ever jam. Yes %5 of them may have canted sights, but this is usually never a reliability problem, and easily fixed. If you are snooping around GUN shows and only buying based off price, then yes you run a greater chance of buying a gun with a problem. On the other hand I have seen straight as an arrow WASR 10/63 at recent gun shows for $300. Don't be to cheap, look for quality and function first. If it looks beatup / canted don't buy it. All the wood will be crap but that's a easy weekend project fix.

WASR 10/63's are GREAT AFFORDABLE AK Firearms, and I am more than impressed with their accuracy, flawless reliability, and over all solid feel. Quit being a SNOB if you own anything you feel is fancier, at the end of the day these will go down in history as cheap, reliable, and just as accurate than any $500-1000 AK. I can make soda cans dance all day long at 50-100 yards, and any bowling pin/bowling ball sized target at 200 yards is dead.

Any distance longer than that I wouldn't want either a AK or AR15 shooting at it, give me a 30-06 .308 7.62x54r 300 wsm or 50 cal any day of the week :)

AHMEN TO THAT

#86 socom688

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:51 AM

I own one, and it has never jammed or had any feed problems. Ever. I was able to inspect mine before I purchased it. The sights and gas tube were straight as can be. It is a 1982 build kit, and will match any Saiga 7.62X39 shot for shot. The accuracy is right on par with other AKs as well. (They really are just all about the same damn thing)


Trust me, there are a lot of haters of this weapon, but if you can inspect it first, or get a guarantee that nothing is canted and gap spacings are correct, you'd be dumb not to own one!!


Damn... just realized this thread is a few years old Posted Image

Edited by socom688, 20 July 2012 - 03:58 AM.

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#87 Warthog35F

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 06:27 PM

Dunhams Sporting Goods will occasionally have "Sunday and Monday"-only sales around here. That's when I got mine.

Got my WASR 10-63 same place same price were you located mine was in Morgantown WV I leave elsewhere though but there the best price within 100 miles from my location so that's we're I go to get my AK variants except for Saigas

#88 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 10:21 PM

I have owned a few and they were fine. I'd buy some more of them if they were $350'ish again.


Funny thing is that many of the same people that talk shit about WASRs are the same people that drool over Dracos and Draco Minis.

Edited by evlblkwpnz, 21 July 2012 - 10:22 PM.

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#89 BlenderWizard

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:11 PM

I have owned a few and they were fine. I'd buy some more of them if they were $350'ish again.


Funny thing is that many of the same people that talk shit about WASRs are the same people that drool over Dracos and Draco Minis.


ENTIRELY different animals. Like saying a SAR1 is the same as a WASR, Nothing wrong with a WASR, but they are different



Got rid of my WASR awhile back, but I picked up a SAR1. I love it. I am trading for another one Saturday. Traded one of my AR's for it, some ammo and some cash boot. The Ar is more trouble to clean. I love the simplicity of the AK and the ease of cleaning it.

What is y'alls opinion of the SAR 1?


I love mine, I recently had it unbanned

Edited by BlenderWizard, 29 July 2012 - 11:12 PM.

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#90 dayofruin

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:40 PM

It honestly comes down to getting to look at and inspect the rifle before you buy it. AND... Knowing what problems to look for. I've heard of people ordering an Arsenal and it being worse than the stereotypical WASR. I've personally picked up multiple WASR's in a shop and seen quality differences on all of them. Some are great. Others are not. When I bought my Romanian RPK, I ended up having to replace the bolt carrier. My fault for not inspecting it thoroughly. It was hanging up and was actually bent behind the piston rod. Just check out what you're buying.




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