Robinsons Arms, Kalashnikov action U.S. rifle

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

Stumbled across this the other day and found it interesting and rather unique. Robinson Arms have designed a rifle around the Kalashnikov action, making it very simple and very reliable. It comes in 5.56 NATO, 7.62 x 39 and MOST interesting is the 6.8mm Remington SPC round. I know that this acton is not pattened, so I can't imagine why someone hasn't made this up before. Looks like they have several nice features. And, althought this rifle doesn't start with the name "AK" it is based on it's actions so I thought it might be appropriate here. It is defenitely different than the AR version designs that's for sure.

 

[nalioth 405]

Robinson Arms have designed a rifle around the Kalashnikov action,

 

 

The Sig 556 and Kel-Tec SU-16 line also have an AK-derived action.

 

As mentioned, none are AKs, but should have better reliability than rifles using "that other system".

Edited November 1, 2009 by nalioth

[Frank Rizzo 8]

your link is wrong.

 

should be robarm.com, not robarms.com

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

Thanks, Frank, corrected in original post.

 

The other side:

 

[volkov 318]

I like it! also you'd be suprised how many guns are actually built on the AK- I know some people hate wikipedia, but I think it has a list somewhere from the obvious ones like the galil up to some that you wouldn't of figured (if not it has a pretty good list of "assault" rifles and it seems half of them are AK based). Guess in it's long career it's been copied a good amount of times.

 

Edit: did some searching, one of these will run you between 1500-2000.. I know it's advanced and all but I don't like spending that much on a gun when I get can get 2-3 nice saigas, the ergonomics of the XCR just arn't worth that price to me. I do like it though! Would definately be a contender against a sig, p90, f2000, fal, and aug if I was looking for a gun in that price range.

Edited November 1, 2009 by volkov

[BpS12 512]

It's still not a Bullpup and can not be easily converted to one. Perhaps if they built a Bp lower reciever, I might take interest. Sorry, I just think the stock is a waste of material/weight and adds unnecessary length to a weapon. But it is good to know that a U.S. arms Co. is finally catching on.

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

Volkov, I too like it but not only because of the action but because of what CALIBER it can come in. I have a Saiga in .223 Remington/5.56 NATO and .308 Winchester, both converted that work quite well. (see avatar that is the .308). However this is a Kalashnikov action rifle, made in America that has the 6.8mm Remington SPC chambering. This cartridge is like the 7.62 x 39 Soviet in that it will "thump" you hard when hit by it, and out at pretty respectable distances. It is superior to the Soviet x39 round in ballistics and also Superior to the 5.56 NATO round REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.8mm_Remington_SPC Barrett makes a rifle with a new piston system that does NOT heat up the bolt or cause powders to be at the bolt to cause fouling, and have chambered the rifle in 6.8mm SPC II. Check out www.youtube.com video sometime and do a search on the 6.8mm round and what the folks at Future Weapons and Barrett have to say about it. Personally, I think it's a shame that our troops are issued such a weapon/round for use in the dusty and harsh environment there in Afghanistan. Many have talked about the 5.56 round for ineffectively stopping the assault as the bullets simply do not put them down with one hit.

 

I know it costs a lot more than any Saiga or WASR, etc but try and find any Saiga in 6.8mm SPC.

[PinkFloyd 63]

These have been out for a while now guys...

 

As for the superiority of the AK action... I know it's good and I'm sure this is blasphemy to say on this forum, but I don't think it's a huge deal if you have an AK versus an AR versus a roller delayed system like a G3... nowadays, pretty much any gun you buy that comes from a reputable manufacture is going to work if you maintain the gun properly. I've seen guys running Rock River AR's with thousands upon thousands of rounds thru them and they don't fail so long as you keep it lubed. My personal gun that I would use in a SHTF scenario, a Sig 556... it's an AK ish type action but I don't really consider it more reliable than a quality AR. I just like it because I can have a folding stock and that the chamber doesn't run so hot.

 

Robarms are alright, not going to knock on their quality, but I've seen some dudes at my local range with them getting a lot of FTF's and FTE's. Kinda disappointing from such a highly touted and expensive rifle.

 

And I agree, bullpups are nice, but I like the trigger on my Sig better than any bullpup trigger I've ever shot. Get me an FN2000 with a decent trigger and we'll talk... but until then I'll keep the traditional rifle with a folder stock.

[bigsal 757]

I buy my rifles for reliability. Can't see myself moving over from the AK platform to the XCR. I read a year or two ago about all kinds of FTF/Jam problems people were having who ran these things in various classes.

I need something that goes bang every time, and does so for less than $1500...

 

That being said, I still want a Robinson Arms Vepr K...

[Flashbang 34]

I buy my rifles for reliability. Can't see myself moving over from the AK platform to the XCR. I read a year or two ago about all kinds of FTF/Jam problems people were having who ran these things in various classes.

I need something that goes bang every time, and does so for less than $1500...

 

That being said, I still want a Robinson Arms Vepr K...

+1 on the Vepr K

[superA 289]

I thought these were being offered in 6.5 as well, anybody know for sure if that's available yet?

[Azrial 1,091]

They are very interesting rifles, but I need for a firearm to be proven by heavy professional usage before I will consider risking my life with.

 

That is not to say that I do not appreciate the sacrifices of you early adopters...

[Flashbang 34]

They are very interesting rifles, but I need for a firearm to be proven by heavy professional usage before I will consider risking my life with.

 

That is not to say that I do not appreciate the sacrifices of you early adopters...

 

**Sigh** after researching the RobArm website I am now searching for a Vepr

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

The M4 used by our troops WOULD be considered havey professional use. Some troops in Afghanistan recently had a fire fight in which their M4s jammed or quit working on them. There have been many instances of either the 5.56 not being able to effectively stop the assailant, Jihadist in this regards, or the absolute utter failure of the rifle to keep working. A battle rifle needs to be both reliable AND effective in it's knock down punch. Personally, I don't think the 5.56 has what it takes. So, there comes a time where one must decide exactly what rifle is worth betting his life on. Some are die hard AR fans, and some are die hard AK fans. I'm leaning toward a newer system other than the AR system with it's faults, and I want a bigger diameter bullet. Hence I have a .308 Winchester. In practial terms I'd swap it any day for a good reliable 6.8mm Remington SPC. It's the same size bullet as a .270 Winchester, of which I used to have in Ruger M77.

[bigsal 757]

They are very interesting rifles, but I need for a firearm to be proven by heavy professional usage before I will consider risking my life with.

 

That is not to say that I do not appreciate the sacrifices of you early adopters...

 

**Sigh** after researching the RobArm website I am now searching for a Vepr

 

 

Only on gunbroker bro! RobArms hasn't imported them since Izhmash acquired the rights from Molot and discontinued sending them. If you can find a 'K' for less than $900 its a fair price.

[Flashbang 34]

They are very interesting rifles, but I need for a firearm to be proven by heavy professional usage before I will consider risking my life with.

 

That is not to say that I do not appreciate the sacrifices of you early adopters...

 

**Sigh** after researching the RobArm website I am now searching for a Vepr

 

 

Only on gunbroker bro! RobArms hasn't imported them since Izhmash acquired the rights from Molot and discontinued sending them. If you can find a 'K' for less than $900 its a fair price.

Damn

[Azrial 1,091]

The M4 used by our troops WOULD be considered havey professional use. Some troops in Afghanistan recently had a fire fight in which their M4s jammed or quit working on them. There have been many instances of either the 5.56 not being able to effectively stop the assailant, Jihadist in this regards, or the absolute utter failure of the rifle to keep working. A battle rifle needs to be both reliable AND effective in it's knock down punch. Personally, I don't think the 5.56 has what it takes. So, there comes a time where one must decide exactly what rifle is worth betting his life on. Some are die hard AR fans, and some are die hard AK fans. I'm leaning toward a newer system other than the AR system with it's faults, and I want a bigger diameter bullet. Hence I have a .308 Winchester. In practial terms I'd swap it any day for a good reliable 6.8mm Remington SPC. It's the same size bullet as a .270 Winchester, of which I used to have in Ruger M77.

Oh, I agree with most everything that you say here. I am particularly a fan of the 6.8 SPC or even the 6.5 Grendel. I will even agree that it is time start seriously trying to replace or upgrade the AR platform. I like the Heckler & Koch HK416 in a new caliber, like 6.8 SPC.

 

But I will take a rifle with known problems in regular service, with well documented corrections, over a complete unknown any day.

Plus 1 to you!

Edited November 2, 2009 by Azrial

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

I like the HK 416 as well. Very nice rifle. I like what Barrett is doing with their piston system. Barrett is a bit pricy though.

[DogMan 2,343]

My XCR has performed flawlessly after the required 300 round break-in period, in both 5.56 and 7.62. I don't have the 6.8 kit yet. Its no more of a "perfect" rifle than any other, including a Saiga or AK, but its very, very good. Were it not for the .50 Beowulf I would have no use whatsoever for an AR.

[Twinsen 86]

Love that FAL bolt release and FAL charging handle. I wonder why they went long stroke piston instead of short stroke?

Edited November 2, 2009 by Twinsen

[SSBiggun 25]

I have known about Robarm for quite some time. Alex is a friend of mine for going on 20 years. The XCR is an awesome bullet launcher and deserves a look by potential buyers. I also have one of their original offerings. The M-96 based on the Stoner 63. I like both rifles.

[bigsal 757]

I have known about Robarm for quite some time. Alex is a friend of mine for going on 20 years. The XCR is an awesome bullet launcher and deserves a look by potential buyers. I also have one of their original offerings. The M-96 based on the Stoner 63. I like both rifles.

 

Im not sure it should be on potential buyers lists. Over at XCR-forums there are a few guys who have run these beasts in classes with piss poor results. Read their reviews yourself, then tell me I should buy you're buddy's rifle:

 

http://xcrforum.com/index.php/topic,4993.0.html

 

http://xcrforum.com/index.php/topic,1455.msg22062.html#msg22062

 

There are many other posts over at AR15.com that talk about this things failure to perform under stress conditions (so many that I don't really want to post links to them all, use the search feature kids).

 

All in all, I would stay clear of this thing... but thats just me, what do I know.

[SSBiggun 25]

Don't get me wrong. If I suggested you buy a ford because its less problematic than a dodge someone somewhere out there is gonna disagree. I did not suggest you buy 1 only that you look at it i.e. research. I am pleased with mine.

I also like my Saiga 12's and they have been the most problematic firearms I have ever owned. Does that mean they are crap? I don't like having to defend my choices to others who have already made up their minds.

I can respect your opinion and hope that you can respect mine. after all they are just opinions right?

[DogMan 2,343]

There are always people who just don't WANT to like something because its different, or new, or because they heard that somebody said it was no good, or because they read somewhere that somebody said something bad about it. Thats not how I make my decisions. Did you bother to ask that guy three lanes down from you who was having the FTEs if he was just starting the break-in period? If he was lubing the hell out of it initially like he was supposed to? Was he using hand loads for break-in against recommendation? Show me someone who is having "a lot of" issues with his XCR and I can probably show you someone who can't follow simple instructions. If there is an actual problem with the weapon then it will be gladly and promptly fixed by Robinson, but I wouldn't know about that personally. I haven't had any problems to speak of. Frankly, I don't care who else likes the weapon and for what reason, but I'm talking from experience and not just repeating what I heard somebody said.

[bigsal 757]

I'll wait till they work out the bugs. I really want my weapons to perform rather than look real pretty. Thats just me. Not saying Robinson Arms will not fix their issues down the road, I hope they do, but Im just not an early adopter. Also there is the price factor, can I really fool myself into thinking these things are worth 3 1/2 SGL-21's? Can You?

 

I mean I am just a simple fry cook trying to finish school, buying an XCR before they are perfected would just be a waste of my limited funds...

[Darth AkSarBen 20]

10-4 on the limited funds!! That's one of the reasons I have 2 Saigas, that, and their reliability. Even if I sold them both for something else, it would be a 2 fer 1 deal, and then I'd probably have to toss in some cash to boot. The AK action is undoubtedly one of the most reliable systems out there. Now if Robinson Arms and others make their rifles with some general idea of doing the same with design features, that would be nice. My interest in Robins Arms was their firing system and that they came in 6.8mm Remington SPC. I know....the ammo ain't cheap, but when I handload, that negates a lot of other things. I don't shoot brown bear, golden bear, Chicom or other steel cased ammo in my rifles. Just a quirk that I have about shooting any steel case ammunition in any rifle. Nothing like brass and nothing like being able to reload it. When there is no ammo on the shelves, my reloading puts rounds in the magazine, which can put meat on the table.

[DogMan 2,343]

I'll wait till they work out the bugs. I really want my weapons to perform rather than look real pretty. Thats just me. Not saying Robinson Arms will not fix their issues down the road, I hope they do, but Im just not an early adopter. Also there is the price factor, can I really fool myself into thinking these things are worth 3 1/2 SGL-21's? Can You?

 

I mean I am just a simple fry cook trying to finish school, buying an XCR before they are perfected would just be a waste of my limited funds...

Hey look Bro, nobody is going to fault you for admitting that new weapon concepts are not within your budget. I have been there myself. But thats a whole different thing than saying that there is a fundamental flaw with a weapon design. I'm happy to be a so-called "early adopter". I can afford it, and thats where the excitement is. If it doesn't work out, I'll melt the son of a bitch down and start all over again. Somebody has to lead the way and if thats me I'm happy to do that. I'm just having fun.

[bigsal 757]

I'll wait till they work out the bugs. I really want my weapons to perform rather than look real pretty. Thats just me. Not saying Robinson Arms will not fix their issues down the road, I hope they do, but Im just not an early adopter. Also there is the price factor, can I really fool myself into thinking these things are worth 3 1/2 SGL-21's? Can You?

 

I mean I am just a simple fry cook trying to finish school, buying an XCR before they are perfected would just be a waste of my limited funds...

Hey look Bro, nobody is going to fault you for admitting that new weapon concepts are not within your budget. I have been there myself. But thats a whole different thing than saying that there is a fundamental flaw with a weapon design. I'm happy to be a so-called "early adopter". I can afford it, and thats where the excitement is. If it doesn't work out, I'll melt the son of a bitch down and start all over again. Somebody has to lead the way and if thats me I'm happy to do that. I'm just having fun.

 

The two are not mutually exclusive. The rifle is out of my budget AND there are flaws. Look, I heard Robinson is very good about fixing failing rifles, so I am not shitting on your decision, only advising potential buyers to consider all the facts before getting one of these.

[bigsal 757]

10-4 on the limited funds!! That's one of the reasons I have 2 Saigas, that, and their reliability. Even if I sold them both for something else, it would be a 2 fer 1 deal, and then I'd probably have to toss in some cash to boot. The AK action is undoubtedly one of the most reliable systems out there. Now if Robinson Arms and others make their rifles with some general idea of doing the same with design features, that would be nice. My interest in Robins Arms was their firing system and that they came in 6.8mm Remington SPC. I know....the ammo ain't cheap, but when I handload, that negates a lot of other things. I don't shoot brown bear, golden bear, Chicom or other steel cased ammo in my rifles. Just a quirk that I have about shooting any steel case ammunition in any rifle. Nothing like brass and nothing like being able to reload it. When there is no ammo on the shelves, my reloading puts rounds in the magazine, which can put meat on the table.

 

If there is ever no ammo on the shelves, we are all in trouble!

[DogMan 2,343]

I'll wait till they work out the bugs. I really want my weapons to perform rather than look real pretty. Thats just me. Not saying Robinson Arms will not fix their issues down the road, I hope they do, but Im just not an early adopter. Also there is the price factor, can I really fool myself into thinking these things are worth 3 1/2 SGL-21's? Can You?

 

I mean I am just a simple fry cook trying to finish school, buying an XCR before they are perfected would just be a waste of my limited funds...

Hey look Bro, nobody is going to fault you for admitting that new weapon concepts are not within your budget. I have been there myself. But thats a whole different thing than saying that there is a fundamental flaw with a weapon design. I'm happy to be a so-called "early adopter". I can afford it, and thats where the excitement is. If it doesn't work out, I'll melt the son of a bitch down and start all over again. Somebody has to lead the way and if thats me I'm happy to do that. I'm just having fun.

 

The two are not mutually exclusive. The rifle is out of my budget AND there are flaws. Look, I heard Robinson is very good about fixing failing rifles, so I am not shitting on your decision, only advising potential buyers to consider all the facts before getting one of these.

OK, we're cool. I agree with all of that.