Permanently attached suppressor?

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Twinsen's picture in this thread.... http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=44327&view=findpost&p=433175 ....got me thinking.................

 

Let's say you have a setup like Twinsen's. Could you have the barrel cut down to less than 16", and have that can permanently attached, and not need a stamp for it being an SBR (as long as it was over 16" in the end, obviously)? Would the can being permanently attached, be the same as having a flash hider/brake permanently attached, in that it creates "barrel length" in the eyes of the law?

 

 

Let's say that you can do that..............do cans need to be removed for maintenance/cleaning? If so, then I guess it would make all of this a moot point. I don't know anything about suppressors.

 

Just curious.

 

I think the end product would be bad-ass, and if you could save the $200 for the SBR stamp, then even better.

[aresv 49]

Some suppressors can be taken apart and cleaned by the user, usually rimfire and pistol suppressors that see lots and lots of rounds of dirty ammo. Rifle suppressors are more often sealed units that have to be dunked or sent back to the manufacturer for service.

 

As long as your muzzle device is PERMANENTLY attached by welding, blind pinning or hi-temp silver soldering, you can count the device towards the barrel length. So yeah, if you wanted to do that with a can it would work.

 

On the other hand, if you're going to submit the NFA paperwork once for a can, why not also get an SBR stamp while you're at it? It'll cost more but at least you'll be able to take the suppressor off and use it on multiple guns.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Some suppressors can be taken apart and cleaned by the user, usually rimfire and pistol suppressors that see lots and lots of rounds of dirty ammo. Rifle suppressors are more often sealed units that have to be dunked or sent back to the manufacturer for service.

 

As long as your muzzle device is PERMANENTLY attached by welding, blind pinning or hi-temp silver soldering, you can count the device towards the barrel length. So yeah, if you wanted to do that with a can it would work.

 

On the other hand, if you're going to submit the NFA paperwork once for a can, why not also get an SBR stamp while you're at it? It'll cost more but at least you'll be able to take the suppressor off and use it on multiple guns.

 

OK. Thanks for the info.

 

As far as the "Why?".......like I said, just curiosity in if it's doable or not.

 

SBR'ing one my lowers is already a definite go, when I get out of NY. I guess I'll see how that process goes, and decide if I want to do it again for a suppressor.

[aresv 49]

SBR'ing one my lowers is already a definite go, when I get out of NY.

 

Ahhh. Believe it or not I share your pain even down in gun friendly Alabama. No SBR's or SBS's allowed here either, but otherwise the gun laws are decent.

[Red Jacket 329]

We do them like that all the time . Guy's figure , "F**k it , I'm not buy a suppresor to take it off , why pay 2 fee's? " . What you have to do is , the tube has to be perm. on the barrel . The front cap is removeable and the baffel's can be removed from that end for cleaning .

[sunnybean 939]

My $.02 is spend the extra $200 and get both (SBR & suppressor). The ability to switch that suppressor to other platforms is well worth the money especially if you have other weapons in that caliber or a smaller caliber (shoot .40 out of a .45).

[22_Shooter 1,560]

SBR'ing one my lowers is already a definite go, when I get out of NY.

 

Ahhh. Believe it or not I share your pain even down in gun friendly Alabama. No SBR's or SBS's allowed here either, but otherwise the gun laws are decent.

 

It's kinda crazy to hear that about a southern state. When I hear "Alabama".......for some reason I would have assumed it was as gun friendly as you can get.

 

We do them like that all the time . Guy's figure , "F**k it , I'm not buy a suppresor to take it off , why pay 2 fee's? " . What you have to do is , the tube has to be perm. on the barrel . The front cap is removeable and the baffel's can be removed from that end for cleaning .

 

Glad to see you chime in, Will.

 

Are these custom cans you're making, that the baffles can removed without removing the can itself? Or is that how most commercial cans are, like AAC's cans, for instance?

 

My $.02 is spend the extra $200 and get both (SBR & suppressor). The ability to switch that suppressor to other platforms is well worth the money especially if you have other weapons in that caliber or a smaller caliber (shoot .40 out of a .45).

 

I agree. Just thinking outloud here.

[Twinsen 86]

Everything has been said. If you permanently attach the can to a short barrel but it brings the overall to over 16" you aren't an SBR, and you just need the stamp for the silencer.

 

When guys make a setup like this, they have the front cap screw off for cleaning. Cleaning of a 9mm isn't as important as cleaning a .22 which is much much dirtier. For any .22 silencer, you have to be able to take it apart, for 9mm it isn't necessary. That can there of mine isn't take apart. I'm shooting pistol ammo out of a 16" barrel that is copper coated, so there is no unburnt powder piling up nor leading. There is some, sure, but not enough for me to care about. .223 cans are almost all sealed as well. I actually cannot think of one that isn't. But SMG dudes shoot a lot of ammo, so big 9mm and .45 cans for rifle use are often user serviceable. If the can is permanently attached to the barrel, the can being take apart is a great idea, as when my silencer fills up with junk I'll be able to just take it off and mail it somewhere to get it taken apart and cleaned by the manufacturer.

 

Also, if you go ahead and build up a silencer for this use, go big, and make sure to use anti-seize on the threads of everything. Junk is literally blasted by the pressure of firing into every little crack and will take threads and turn them solid with lead and copper, soldered in place.

 

 

Also that FotoChop is what I want that build to be, I just don't want to spend the dough to cut it down and SBR it. I'm building a better host for that silencer right now in .338 spectre. It uses the .338 Lapua bullets, but subsonic. So I can use those amazingly well designed bullets at 300 grains, but at 1100fps. It should be good times. Oh, it's a bullet made around the AR-15 design as well, so it'll be semi auto. Figure it's what .300 whisper should be.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Twinsen

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Everything has been said. If you permanently attach the can to a short barrel but it brings the overall to over 16" you aren't an SBR, and you just need the stamp for the silencer.

 

When guys make a setup like this, they have the front cap screw off for cleaning. Cleaning of a 9mm isn't as important as cleaning a .22 which is much much dirtier. For any .22 silencer, you have to be able to take it apart, for 9mm it isn't necessary. That can there of mine isn't take apart. I'm shooting pistol ammo out of a 16" barrel that is copper coated, so there is no unburnt powder piling up nor leading. There is some, sure, but not enough for me to care about. .223 cans are almost all sealed as well. I actually cannot think of one that isn't. But SMG dudes shoot a lot of ammo, so big 9mm and .45 cans for rifle use are often user serviceable. If the can is permanently attached to the barrel, the can being take apart is a great idea, as when my silencer fills up with junk I'll be able to just take it off and mail it somewhere to get it taken apart and cleaned by the manufacturer.

 

Also, if you go ahead and build up a silencer for this use, go big, and make sure to use anti-seize on the threads of everything. Junk is literally blasted by the pressure of firing into every little crack and will take threads and turn them solid with lead and copper, soldered in place.

 

 

Also that FotoChop is what I want that build to be, I just don't want to spend the dough to cut it down and SBR it. I'm building a better host for that silencer right now in .338 spectre. It uses the .338 Lapua bullets, but subsonic. So I can use those amazingly well designed bullets at 300 grains, but at 1100fps. It should be good times. Oh, it's a bullet made around the AR-15 design as well, so it'll be semi auto. Figure it's what .300 whisper should be.

 

What brand is your can? AAC?

 

Either way, got any vids of it being fired?

 

 

I'm mainly interested in suppressed 9mm's, so your rig caught my eye.

[sunnybean 939]

The photo shown looks like a SWR Trident....a great suppressor.

 

Oh, I know you're not looking to perm attach a can anymore but I guess I should have mentioned that if that IF I were to go that way in a 9mm I'd definitely go with a integral suppressor instead of perm attaching a thread on. Integral suppressors can be spooky quite.

[Red Jacket 329]

We do them like that all the time . Guy's figure , "F**k it , I'm not buy a suppresor to take it off , why pay 2 fee's? " . What you have to do is , the tube has to be perm. on the barrel . The front cap is removeable and the baffel's can be removed from that end for cleaning .

 

Glad to see you chime in, Will.

 

Are these custom cans you're making, that the baffles can removed without removing the can itself? Or is that how most commercial cans are, like AAC's cans, for instance?

 

We make all our can's to be disasembled by the owner . Most other commercial can's I've seen are sealed or semi-sealed . I hate that shit , having taken them apart after a 1000 or so rounds ... well , believe that stuff about "don't need cleaning" if you want . I've looked inside , they need regular cleaning . I've got carbon inside a Gemtech that I let go to about 500 rnds that would take a chisel to get off . inside a lot of the can's I've seen these day's , lot of stamping , pulled , double layered tubing and welding . convoluted air flow . .

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

If you wanted a suppressed 9mm upper for your AR lower I wouldn't go with the standard of permanently attaching a suppressor to a short barrel to attain the needed 16 inches. I would simply get a integral suppressed upper...these have proven to be WAY MORE quiet then either threaded or 3-lug attached suppressors.

 

Things to consider with an integral upper:

#1 Dedicated to AR15 type host,

#2 Is the tube AOL a minimum of 16", if not do you have a a SBR lower?

#3 Will you run full power rounds or subsonic? (Round availability & Cost?)

 

Non-Integral Considerations:

#1 Is the suppressor fixed to barrel or not?

...if not do you have a SBR?

#2 What is the attachment method? Threaded or 3-lug?

#3 Do you plan on using the suppressor on another host?

 

The best integrals w/subsonic rounds dB somewhere in the low 120's and other makers in the mid 120's to low 130's. If you have a premium account on the Silencer Reasearch web sight you can read up on all this info with exact numbers. I HIGHLY suggest this if you plan on getting a suppressor.

 

I fired both in pistol & rifle weapons with barrels of 4.7 to 5". The pistols "SEEM" quieter for some reason...also another reason I plan on getting a integral.

 

John Titsworth, owner of Silencer Reasearch, made a comment on the SRT; "It was SPOOKY QUIET." Coming from a man who does this for a living....has me SOLD!

[aresv 49]

We make all our can's to be disasembled by the owner . Most other commercial can's I've seen are sealed or semi-sealed . I hate that shit , having taken them apart after a 1000 or so rounds ... well , believe that stuff about "don't need cleaning" if you want . I've looked inside , they need regular cleaning . I've got carbon inside a Gemtech that I let go to about 500 rnds that would take a chisel to get off . inside a lot of the can's I've seen these day's , lot of stamping , pulled , double layered tubing and welding . convoluted air flow . .

 

+1 Red Jacket!

 

Suppressors do get gunked up over time, no matter what the manufacturers may tell you. It may take 10,000 rounds depending on what you're shooting, but it's going to happen sooner or later. Personally, I like user serviceable cans made from nickel alloy, steel or titanium. Factory sealed cans and aluminum are for frosty beverages!

[Twinsen 86]

That silencer of mine is an SWR Trident. No, it is not the quietest can out there. It was at the time the quietest silencer that I could use on both a rifle and a pistol. I don't plan on having two 9mm silencers, unless I decide to make an integral for my .338 at some point, but then again that wouldn't be 9mm.

 

The thing to stay away from in silencers is old school integral ones. I'm talking about the ones that have a full length barrel though the silencer that is ported to slow the bullet. This makes the gun extremely quiet, but incredibly weak. 115 grain subsonics make baby jesus cry, to death. I don't know which brands or models do this, but boy is it depressing to find out that's what some guy is shooting next to you. I don't see the point in it. AWC makes the Amphibian, which is this style of ported barrel, but in .22. It's sad. MP5SDs are like this too, and so are pretty much the weakest centerfire you could hope to find.

[Red Jacket 329]

That silencer of mine is an SWR Trident. No, it is not the quietest can out there. It was at the time the quietest silencer that I could use on both a rifle and a pistol. I don't plan on having two 9mm silencers, unless I decide to make an integral for my .338 at some point, but then again that wouldn't be 9mm.

 

The thing to stay away from in silencers is old school integral ones. I'm talking about the ones that have a full length barrel though the silencer that is ported to slow the bullet. This makes the gun extremely quiet, but incredibly weak. 115 grain subsonics make baby jesus cry, to death. I don't know which brands or models do this, but boy is it depressing to find out that's what some guy is shooting next to you. I don't see the point in it. AWC makes the Amphibian, which is this style of ported barrel, but in .22. It's sad. MP5SDs are like this too, and so are pretty much the weakest centerfire you could hope to find.

Most integral 9mm's are made so that when milspec ammo is shot through it , it'll bring it down to subsonic level's . If you use subsonic or even weak civie target load's , you'll be lucky if you puncture the cardboard your target's taped to . Most "integral's " made for the US market are just short barrel's with a perm attached tube holding whatever version of a baffel stack the make favor's

[Twinsen 86]

Exactly. So 9mm NATO becomes 115 grain subsonic and heavy 9mm subsonic loads become paintballs. (exaggeration)

 

I'd make sure whoever you go with is just perm attaching a muzzle can type. I think ported barrel suppressors should only exist for shotguns, because that's the only time it is required. Boy do I want one of those someday!

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Wow, lots of good info here. Thanks fellas.

 

I'll have to look deeper into all the choices when the time comes. I guess I didn't realize how deep the world of suppressors is. Lots of stuff to consider.

[sunnybean 939]

Exactly. So 9mm NATO becomes 115 grain subsonic and heavy 9mm subsonic loads become paintballs. (exaggeration)

 

I'd make sure whoever you go with is just perm attaching a muzzle can type. I think ported barrel suppressors should only exist for shotguns, because that's the only time it is required. Boy do I want one of those someday!

 

 

I agree with you in that a shotgun integral would be cat's ass. (Will, after I get done paying for the guns that you should now have in your possession, your 12ga detachable suppressor is up there on the "must have" list). But I guess I have to disagree with you on the internal 9mm. They can be built to whatever specs you want. If you don't want to slow the 115gr ammo down that far then don't drill as many holes. Or, make it spooky quite and just shoot 115gr and realize weak sub loads aren't going to have much punch. You just need to figure out what you want to do with it and build it to those parameters.

[Red Jacket 329]

Exactly. So 9mm NATO becomes 115 grain subsonic and heavy 9mm subsonic loads become paintballs. (exaggeration)

 

I'd make sure whoever you go with is just perm attaching a muzzle can type. I think ported barrel suppressors should only exist for shotguns, because that's the only time it is required. Boy do I want one of those someday!

 

 

I agree with you in that a shotgun integral would be cat's ass. (Will, after I get done paying for the guns that you should now have in your possession, your 12ga detachable suppressor is up there on the "must have" list). But I guess I have to disagree with you on the internal 9mm. They can be built to whatever specs you want. If you don't want to slow the 115gr ammo down that far then don't drill as many holes. Or, make it spooky quite and just shoot 115gr and realize weak sub loads aren't going to have much punch. You just need to figure out what you want to do with it and build it to those parameters.

You're not disagreeing with me . When I build integral 9mm's , i take a middle road approach , my market is civilian's and will primarily be using subsonic's . The strictly military design's don't . Remember our motto "You dream it , we build it " , what that mean's is , I build it to suit my customer's need's instead of building it and then telling my customer that's what he needs .

[termite 463]

Tactical Innovations builds a .223 can that can be taken apart and cleaned. My .223 can is by Sound Tech, and my 9mm is a Yankee Hill. The .223 on my AR makes the bullets sound almost as loud as a standard .22lr round, with it on my CZ bolt action, it works even better. The 9mm, I run on my Lusa or Beretta storm, both have 16" barrels, and shooting subsonic rounds from the back deck, I've been told that the neighbors say it sounds like a weak pellet gun, but I load my own 9mm and even .223 subsonic rounds and run them thru the chrono before I load a bunch, to get them tuned to keep them just under the sonic crack. The .223 loaded for subsonic, about all you hear is a whoosh from the barrel, then a thump on the target. I've also run the .223 can on my Walther P22 and it's fun, but as said above, it craps it up QUICK, so I don't do it very much. I think there is also a company in Ga. that makes the bigger caliber cans that are cleanable, I'll look for the link if anyone's interested

[Red Jacket 329]

Just a shameless plug to say we build ALL our suppressor's , from .22 to 12 g to .50bmg to be taken apart for cleaning

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Just a shameless plug to say we build ALL our suppressor's , from .22 to 12 g to .50bmg to be taken apart for cleaning

 

Even though it's going to be quite awhile before I even get near this stuff for real.....I'll keep you guys in mind, for sure.

 

 

(Suppressed .50BMG???? Videos, man, we need videos!)

[Twinsen 86]

Supposedly the local SMG club only allows .50 BMG if you have a silencer on it.

[sunnybean 939]

Supposedly the local SMG club only allows .50 BMG if you have a silencer on it.

 

That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while. But hey, I guess they're better than the range I belong to...no .50BMG and no full auto

[Twinsen 86]

This state is the most ridiculous thing I've heard of since California. People "pull bullets" out of things and say people shot them up, shit like that, ALL THE DAMN TIME. They complain about the noise when there are no shoots happening, that kind of crap. Nothing comes of it other than ranges closing.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

Just a shameless plug to say we build ALL our suppressor's , from .22 to 12 g to .50bmg to be taken apart for cleaning

 

That's awesome! I'm still a little irritated with my dealer, who insisted that nobody makes a .30 cal can that can be disassembled, and further that it's entirely unnecessary. Since I intend to mount it on a Mosin, possibly later a PSL, and fire lots of dirty corrosive ammo, I want a can that can be disassembled for thorough cleaning. So, do you make a .30cal suppressor with stainless baffles, and what sort of price would I be looking at?

 

And for when I when the lottery, how much would I need to shell out for an integrally suppressed Barrett M82A2 with a 16" barrel?

[Red Jacket 329]

Just a shameless plug to say we build ALL our suppressor's , from .22 to 12 g to .50bmg to be taken apart for cleaning

 

That's awesome! I'm still a little irritated with my dealer, who insisted that nobody makes a .30 cal can that can be disassembled, and further that it's entirely unnecessary. Since I intend to mount it on a Mosin, possibly later a PSL, and fire lots of dirty corrosive ammo, I want a can that can be disassembled for thorough cleaning. So, do you make a .30cal suppressor with stainless baffles, and what sort of price would I be looking at?

 

And for when I when the lottery, how much would I need to shell out for an integrally suppressed Barrett M82A2 with a 16" barrel?

If your dealer ever looked inside a can that's been used , he might have a different idea about cleaning them . If he needs an example , just look at the carbon that builds up in a muzzel break . A Stainless .30 cal can is $675.00 . The blast chamber is S/S , the following baffel's are aluminum to cut weight . We've done them this way from the beginning and have never had a problem , full auto , corrosive , whatever . I don't know which one the M82 is , but I can do a SHF bolt action , suppressed for $3500.00 , it's the one pictured on my website

[Twinsen 86]

M82 is the semi auto one, you cannot silence it.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

Just a shameless plug to say we build ALL our suppressor's , from .22 to 12 g to .50bmg to be taken apart for cleaning

 

That's awesome! I'm still a little irritated with my dealer, who insisted that nobody makes a .30 cal can that can be disassembled, and further that it's entirely unnecessary. Since I intend to mount it on a Mosin, possibly later a PSL, and fire lots of dirty corrosive ammo, I want a can that can be disassembled for thorough cleaning. So, do you make a .30cal suppressor with stainless baffles, and what sort of price would I be looking at?

 

And for when I when the lottery, how much would I need to shell out for an integrally suppressed Barrett M82A2 with a 16" barrel?

If your dealer ever looked inside a can that's been used , he might have a different idea about cleaning them . If he needs an example , just look at the carbon that builds up in a muzzel break . A Stainless .30 cal can is $675.00 . The blast chamber is S/S , the following baffel's are aluminum to cut weight . We've done them this way from the beginning and have never had a problem , full auto , corrosive , whatever . I don't know which one the M82 is , but I can do a SHF bolt action , suppressed for $3500.00 , it's the one pictured on my website

 

That's a great price for a suppressed .50, everybody else seems to want $2k for a .50 cal can alone... If I can find a dealer in my state who doesn't want $75-$100 to transfer a suppressor, I'll be getting one of your .30 cal cans not too far down the road. the .50 will still have to wait for a lottery win.

Edited November 20, 2009 by Shandlanos

[Red Jacket 329]

Just a shameless plug to say we build ALL our suppressor's , from .22 to 12 g to .50bmg to be taken apart for cleaning

 

That's awesome! I'm still a little irritated with my dealer, who insisted that nobody makes a .30 cal can that can be disassembled, and further that it's entirely unnecessary. Since I intend to mount it on a Mosin, possibly later a PSL, and fire lots of dirty corrosive ammo, I want a can that can be disassembled for thorough cleaning. So, do you make a .30cal suppressor with stainless baffles, and what sort of price would I be looking at?

 

And for when I when the lottery, how much would I need to shell out for an integrally suppressed Barrett M82A2 with a 16" barrel?

If your dealer ever looked inside a can that's been used , he might have a different idea about cleaning them . If he needs an example , just look at the carbon that builds up in a muzzel break . A Stainless .30 cal can is $675.00 . The blast chamber is S/S , the following baffel's are aluminum to cut weight . We've done them this way from the beginning and have never had a problem , full auto , corrosive , whatever . I don't know which one the M82 is , but I can do a SHF bolt action , suppressed for $3500.00 , it's the one pictured on my website

 

That's a great price for a suppressed .50, everybody else seems to want $2k for a .50 cal can alone... If I can find a dealer in my state who doesn't want $75-$100 to transfer a suppressor, I'll be getting one of your .30 cal cans not too far down the road. the .50 will still have to wait for a lottery win.

Call around . Most guy's around here charge , 1 - 2 hundred for a NFA transfer