Dirge 4 Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I purchased Magnolia State Armory's adapter with the assurance by everyone here that after the proper modifications to my Saiga .223's front trunnion, the adapter would work perfectly. Not only does is not work, but in order to have it engage the Saiga's magazine latch and sit flush with the receiver, I had to grind my trunnion to oblivion. As you can see, the adapter isn't sitting perfectly level, but after 4 hours of Dremeling I got fed up and stopped. Now I know what you're thinking: "Well if it isn't sitting level with the adapter, of course it isn't going to work." So, why don't I just show you what I had to do to get the freakin' thing in the mag well at all? Yeah. The trunnion is pretty much ruined. But this was the only way I could get the adapter to properly engage the magazine latch and sit anywhere near as level with the receiver as it is now. I tried everything else and nothing worked. The adapter would just get stuck halfway through and the mag latch would get stuck against the back of the adapter. At this point I thought I finally had it, so I inserted a GI AR15 magazine into the adapter one last time. The adapter's mag catch doesn't even engage the magazine properly. I can yank it out with one quick jerk without even trying. The adapter itself jiggles like crazy in the mag well. WTF?! I did EVERYTHING I was supposed to and then some, and in the end, I blew $125 on an adapter that doesn't work and another $300 on the rifle itself, which at this point I'm afraid will kaboom spectacularly if I put it back together and fire off a round. How could it have gone so wrong? Where did I go wrong? If I didn't have an actual AR15 already, I would demand an explanation from MSA themselves. So unless anyone can tell me how I could possibly fix this, I'm throwing this POS into the darkest corner of my closet and burying it along with my shame. I'll probably use my conversion parts for a 7.62x39 Saiga in the future. At least with that one, all I'll have to do is pop the floorplate off and install a bullet guide. No more adapters for me. EVER. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigj480 203 Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) Having NO experience with the adapter, but after seeing several successful builds using it, I would bet money that you didn't install it properly. The time to ask questions is before you dremel your rifle to death, no offense. That sucks, man. Didi you attempt to mill as shown in THIS THREAD first? Edited November 11, 2009 by bigj480 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dirge 4 Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Having NO experience with the adapter, but after seeing several successful builds using it, I would bet money that you didn't install it properly. The time to ask questions is before you dremel your rifle to death, no offense. That sucks, man. Didi you attempt to mill as shown in THIS THREAD first? Yeah, I tried doing exactly what MSA recommended. The rivets didn't give me any problems, but the front part of the trunnion always got in the way no matter how I tried to insert the adapter. Eventually I had to grind and grind and grind until... well, you can see the results in my first post. Only then did the adapter even begin to go in the way it was supposed to. I don't know. Maybe if I took some Loctite Metal Filler and used it to fill in the parts that I ground away, I might be able to fix it. But even so, it won't get the adapter to work correctly with my GI mags. What a pain in the arse this whole thing has been. I really should have just gone with 7.62X39 to begin with... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alexc.s. 25 Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I am sorry to hear that it didn't work for you, but did you ask any one for help when it didn't fit right? You can call MSA and have them tell you step by step. I have also been told by MSA to cut up the adapter before you hack the rifle to death, they will give a refund or send you a new one if you really need. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
protected static 19 Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I'm curious about the production date of your rifle... I wonder if trunnion specs were different on a particular batch, or if this one was some kind of 'vodka special.' Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dirge 4 Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I am sorry to hear that it didn't work for you, but did you ask any one for help when it didn't fit right? You can call MSA and have them tell you step by step. I have also been told by MSA to cut up the adapter before you hack the rifle to death, they will give a refund or send you a new one if you really need. A refund, eh? Well that would certainly soften the blow of my failure, and it would definitely help with getting a 7.62x39. How do I go about doing this? Do I need to send the adapter back to them? It's pretty beat up from my attempts at getting it to fit, but functions perfectly (as far as I can tell, aside from it not fitting). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TacSat 90 Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Just curious. Do they suggest using a dermel? Or say that it can be done with one? Or is an end mill the right way to go.? the only reason i ask when i get my .223. i will be doing the same. may i can learn from one mistake so as not to make another myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alexc.s. 25 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 THEY say to use a mill. But if you go slow a dremil will do the same thing. I will be dremiling mine, and if problems happen my uncle has a mill. I think the best way to get the ball rolling on a refund is to get your info together and call MSA. People have done the job with a dremil and had it working just fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saigafreake 27 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 i dont know if i would feel safe firing that rifle. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 I assume that this is why MSA decided that they wanted to do all the installs in house. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 I agree on getting the adaptor money back. At least then you have some cash toward the x39. You already got the parts. I would also agree that I would have milled/grind-d' the adaptor and not the rifle. btw protected... it looks like an 04' rifle. I don't like adaptors either btw. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dirge 4 Posted November 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 After looking at MSA's return policies, it looks like the only refunds they offer are for returned undamaged products that have been bought within the last 30 days. I bought my adapter all the way back in January. So unless Nathan takes notice and makes an exception, it looks like I'm SOL. Should I still send an e-mail and explain my situation? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Dirge. I would try to at least see if they can refund for the part you bought. Send them the pics via email also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CPE1704TKS 24 Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Just curious, but what was the final outcome of the project? How did MSA respond? what happened to the modified rifle? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
havok 21 Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 I had a hell of a time getting my parts from MSA that was paid for. Good luck trying to get a refund. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
clifton 354 Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 We have installed them, but I would say there is no room for a Dremel... it needs to be milled and done properly.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
55645 1 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 i used a dremel http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=48518 Pmag http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=101708628 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 I installed a UA version using a mill and in no way would I suggest using a Dremel for this application. It's not to say that you can't, only that I wouldn't suggest it considering the time and effort it took with a mill. It's just a big risk to take, especially if you're new to something this critical. My post is more of a warning than anything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sksman71 0 Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 It looks like you grinned to much of the Trunnions.Causing them to crack.Ouch that really sucks.I just bought an AR mag Adater from a guy who makes them for 75 bucks.His name is renegadebuck.I have to grind the front trunnions down,I will try using a Dremel with the grinding stones.Wish me luck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SirROFL 13 Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 I used a Dremel, HOWEVER, I cut off a large portion of the adapter sidewalls before removing any of the trunnion. So I really only took enough of the trunnion off to be able to fit the square-fronted AR mags in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hexus535 14 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 Hey Dirge, Sorry for all that nastiness that happened to you. I agree with everyone else on here when they say you should have sought help. Here is a thread I made showing what the receiver should look like on the inside. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=62843 The crucial thing to remember is to go SLOWLY with the dremel, it could heat the metal up something fierce therefore ruining the heat treament and causing it to swell at its weakest points. I happened to use a cheap benchtop drill press I already had from harbor freight. Just pay attention to the numbers they provided on the instructions .96" wide (flush with the foot of the rivet) and .89" deep (so the notch you are cutting lines up with the underside of the bolt rails). Don't worry too much, with a shop press and about 60$ worth of parts, you can fix that rifle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 This thread is older than dirt.... For the record, the new ones being sold now come with detailed written directions, complete with exact measurements, and warnings about using a dremel for installation. It can be done, but it's recommended to use a mill, or have it done at a gunsmith or machine shop. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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