Nailbomb 10,221 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) I carefully removed material around the base of the sleeve with a hacksaw blade, made a relief cut with a dremil and chisled it off without touching the barrel. I did not find threads on mine, though i do have HG notches. Really it dosn't change anything for me, I was simply curious after reading this thread. I will be converting to wood sometime in the coming year to take advantage of the HG notches. I'll drill out the inside of a break to match the barrel diamiter(0.57 on mine) and i'll tack weld it to the front sight. Edited December 31, 2009 by Nailbomb Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 whats your build date? dimples and case neck stepping too? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Heh, mine must have been sitting on a shelf somewhere collecting dust for a while! Date of manufacture 9-22-08 No dimples, and i've never checked for sase stamping. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sailor 6 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 I trimmed the front 3/16" of the sleeve off to check, and pristine threads are staring me in the eye! An AK-74 muzzle brake is on delivery (with 6 USA mag followers). I'll trim off the rest of the barrel sleeve on receipt of the brake, and verify all is OK. I do have all of the "good stuff" list: PG hole, no cartridge neck "ring", HG retainer grooves, dimples - for a Feb 2009 Saiga - the barrel threads just had to be there. Now to learn what the HG retainer grooves allow for in the way of change of HG. sailor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Sailor.. what was the threading on the Brake you ordered??? Type and Pics??? Pleaseeeeee..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Sailor, what caliber is your rifle? Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sailor 6 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 The muzzle brake ordered is the standard AK-74 (copy) by TAPCO, 14x1 LH threads. My Saiga is 7.62x39 Sporter, returned to the (almost) AK-47 configuration - heavily vented Saiga HG stays. I would post a pic, except 4 years of college wasn't enough to figure the process out. Apparently, some military barrels were used on recent build Saiga's. Just "luck of the draw" stuff. Also, the "post window" seems to be a bit messed up, with an overlay across the center. sailor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Forgot to check the 150+ rounds today I shot for the step-case neck. Last time I shot I didn't have them. Thank you Sailor for clarifying the thread size/pitch thing. I may do as you did and use a tube cutter and just cut 3/16" off the 'sleeve' to check also. Its got a 12/16/08 production date. I'm 90% sure I have threads under there. I got all the features.... hmmm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sailor 6 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 YWHIC - I used a strong tactical flashlight on the muzzle, and could see that the beginning thread cut was visible - LH, and a bit of a tiny gap between the sleeve and barrel. The tubing cutter crapped out before I got half way through the sleeve, so went for a vise and a special (99 cent) 6 inch fine blade hacksaw. Good blades, will cut a lock hasp. I am supposing the threads are 14x1, they are fine threads, and they are LH. I'm not kidding about posting pics, can't find how-to. sailor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 I will take muzzle pics of the end of mine in the AM and put up here for you all to post your opinions on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 (edited) Heh, the lack of consistency in Izhmash weapons production is amazing, (worse on the shotguns than the rifles). Good thing the basic design doesn't exactly have tight tolerances. I find the presence of 14x1mm LH barrel threads on some Saiga 7.62x39 barrels especially interesting considering the fact that, afaik, Russian military rifle barrels are threaded 24x1.5mm RH, and have been for some time. Edited January 3, 2010 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 (edited) The muzzle brake ordered is the standard AK-74 (copy) by TAPCO, 14x1 LH threads.. sailor Just fyi, the Tapco "74 brake" is not a correct copy, and will not work as well as one that accurately follows the original design. They're much more expensive, but if you want a correct US-made 74-type brake, check out ak-103.com Their brakes are even chrome-lined... extremely rare in a US-made copy. edit: their site has changed a bit since I last visited it, and from what I can tell, you might have to get a 14x1mm LH to 24x1.5mm RH adapter to use their 74-type brakes. Or... they might make em for both types of threads. You'd have to call em to check, (which would be necessary anyway, as they seem to take all orders by phone). Edited January 3, 2010 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sailor 6 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Thanks for the ak-103 info - added to the list. The TAPCO is already on its way, so will see if it fits, and if I can stand the increased report. I just put a thread chaser to the threads, shows SAE 24 - don't know how to convert that info to mm threads. Definitely LH. TAPCO brake a cheap item, if not any good, into the junk pile. Way too many different sizes, lengths, mountings, threads, etc - mass confusion. Definitely a learning experience. Saiga is not a rifle, it is a hobby! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 2 People now say 24 TPI. Here is the pics of the muzzle of mine. Looks beveled where the sleeve is and I can kinda see on the right hand side of the edge of what appears to be a thread. Definately not dead center like a 'slide on' sleeve would be. Maybe there are trying to save between civilian and military contracts and just go with all threaded FSB's. Anyone get a 'brake' mounted yet to end the 14 vs. 24 conspiracy....?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sailor 6 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 TAPCO brake on its way, arrive in a few days. Will then know one way or the other. Saigafreake states that if the threads are already cut, and under the sleeve, they are 14x1. I have exposed 5 mm of threads = 6 threads, LH. We shall soon see what the story is. Also, the Saiga sight post has no indexing pin, and is not drilled for one. Just wondering about how a brake stays indexed without some means of retaining it, other than thread "drag". The questions never end - guess that's what makes this "hobby" so interesting. I would post a pic, can't figure how! sailor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Since i go into NJ alot here and there for the 'other' range, if i get one I just have to tack weld it on anyway. Brother-in-law has a welder so thats no problem here. Keep us posted with fit of the 14 LH you get in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 (edited) if i am not mistaken here.....(someone please correct me if i am wrong) you will without a doubt know if you have 24mm threads, since the 24mm refers to the diameter, meaning almost one inch across. 14mm threads will be about 9/16" across. there is a substantially noticeable difference in visual appearance between the two. i would bet that 100% of OE threaded barrel Saigas will be of 14mm variety. 24mm on the left, 14mm on the right.... http://media.photobucket.com/image/24mm%20threaded%20barrel%20AK/Gamonman/Brakes002.jpg top barrel is 24mm, bottom barrel is 14mm.... http://media.photobucket.com/image/24mm%20threaded%20barrel%20AK/Tim_Orrock/Half%20sized%20Tammy%20and%20Arsenal/Circle10010.jpg sailor, if you have pics available to post , you can either PM me and we can get them posted for you. or you can go to a free site like www.tinypic.com and upload them, then copy and past the link in this thread. Edited January 3, 2010 by Mullet Man Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sailor 6 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Mullet Man - Thanks for the pics - definitely 14x1 threads (direct threading of the barrel). Also the TinyPic site. First attempt to get a photo posted - seems to have gotten a bit fuzzy in the process. sailor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jigen 8 Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 I remember seeing the parts for the index pin for sale somewhere. Isn't it possible to drill the Saiga FSB in order to install one? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james peek 14 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 I remember seeing the parts for the index pin for sale somewhere. Isn't it possible to drill the Saiga FSB in order to install one? this is it. i wish someone would do this brake job so we would know the correct way of doing it. plus how to lay the holes out for drilling on the fsb. i think we know it's the 14x1 threads. it's just finding the proper 74 replica with the 14mm threads. please someone we need a tutorial bad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 ...it's just finding the proper 74 replica with the 14mm threads... That's not a problem. You can buy an adapter that screws onto your 14x1mm LH threads to give you 24x1.5mm RH threads, then use the proper 74-type brake of your choice, (whether it's foreign mil-surp or an accurate US copy). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james peek 14 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 ...it's just finding the proper 74 replica with the 14mm threads... That's not a problem. You can buy an adapter that screws onto your 14x1mm LH threads to give you 24x1.5mm RH threads, then use the proper 74-type brake of your choice, (whether it's foreign mil-surp or an accurate US copy). cool, so why do the factory saigas come with the 14x1 when it seems the better quality breaks are 24 versions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 ...it's just finding the proper 74 replica with the 14mm threads... That's not a problem. You can buy an adapter that screws onto your 14x1mm LH threads to give you 24x1.5mm RH threads, then use the proper 74-type brake of your choice, (whether it's foreign mil-surp or an accurate US copy). cool, so why do the factory saigas come with the 14x1 when it seems the better quality breaks are 24 versions. *shrug* Military 7.62x39mm rifles produced at Izhmash have 24x1.5mm RH threads, but they're part of the fsb, extending out over the barrel. If you've got a fsb without the threaded extension but with 14x1mm LH threads on the barrel itself, a thread adapter accomplishes the same thing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sailor 6 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 I'd guess, so you have to buy another do-dad to make it work? The problem with the index pin in the FSB, is that it is not drilled for the pin/spring system, and I would bet you would have to pull the FSB to drill it - the base is thin, and the gas block is in the way. Personally, I'm not interested in that much fooling around - there is almost always an alternative - if you, like me, are not a purist - I just want it to work correctly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sailor 6 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 More on the index pin. The thumbnail of the pin, spring & retaining pin don't indicate how the pin is retained from falling forward out of the drilled hole. The small pin is the spring retainer (crosswise). I assumed that the index pin hole has to be drilled from the rear side of the FSB, so the exit hole is smaller. But what do I know? I've never had one apart. The TAPCO AK-74 brake in transit is listed as 14x1 LH threads, so should be no problem, other than the possible need to Lock-Tite or figure a way to hold index. Sure does keep one from getting bored! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 The russians could be using the threaded barrels with rifles that have a FSB/GB combo. That way an attachment can be added since it won't reach the block. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kolya 0 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 The russians could be using the threaded barrels with rifles that have a FSB/GB combo. That way an attachment can be added since it won't reach the block. http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/weapon.shtml http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/akm.shtml http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/akms.shtml Izhmash advertises AKM and AKMS rifles under products->weapons... so I guess Izhmash still makes these as well as the AK-103/104... probably where these barrels are coming from.... ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 ViviSectVi, i'm convinced, youre on the money with those. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 This may STIR things abit. Lets all check our part # on the front site. Mine is 19-3 on the side. MAYBE this also gives +/- an easier way to ID threades vs. non-threaded??. Anyone have the parts sheet number handy from the AK Izh site?? Also here is a picture of the underside of the front site where the SLEEVE is. Notice the square notch in the middle... hmmm. Kinda strange. Like a reverse detent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sailor 6 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 My FSB has a barely readable 26-3 cast into it. As to the "square notch", the whole length of the underside of the FSB - not the sleeve - is flat, with the double raised "rod guides", altho no capability of carrying a cleaning rod. These carbines are an endless source of "inspections" and head scratches. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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