madmax4x4 68 Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 EDIT: Pro-mag is the absolute worst, but for drums, Mikes is better from all the research I have done. That being said, MadMax4X4 has had good luck with his (After the reliability service I think). I just screwed up the poll and vote both best choice Only one vote for AA. But to clear things up I have not had the reliability service. That is to clean up the gun a bit for someone that is afraid of tweaking with a dremel. I only did the things most of us do polish bolt, FCG. That was before I bought the drum. Before I bought MD's or AA's. I did try the AA in 3 different guns and worked fine. The 30 rounder has stopped on the last round about 5 times out of of 50 but 2 times in the first 10 using it. Bottom line the MD is a better deal and a lot lighter. The only reason I shoot the AA so much at the range is it is fast and easier to load. The 30 round pizza pan should be in the poll. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmax4x4 68 Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 I am planning to get a MD arms drum sometime in the near future, Everything I hear is great and they have always been good When i have talked to them in the past. I Saw this on Chaos's website and I am really wanting to know more about it but it looks like a more condensed version of the drum. Does anyone know what they are up with it? and if there are any plans for a larger capacity one? It looks like this one holds 10 rounds and is pretty condensed. just wondering... Come on Cameron I really want a ten round drum I know you got other stuff in the works but is the ten drum scrapped or still a go Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 LOL this war is over. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacsucks 3 Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 The war is long over, and its MD all the way! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kwesi 39 Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Been looking over the videos and topics on 20 round drums, i think its safe to say that the battle is between MD arms and Alliance Arms, My question to the forum is does anyone have a preference? If so what would be the reason? MD20 has worked flawlessly! Check out the MD20 ammo table thread for the right ammo! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gibbles 23 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 This thread made me laugh. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gibbles 23 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) BTW, MD Arms won! AA fucked up bad, they will not stand behind their product, and they treat people like crap. I'm a life time customer for MD Arms. not counting the Gunbroker bs for that bulgy parts kit, I'm still calling bs on the auction ending with buy it now @ $800 when my bid was @ $120 with 6 minutes left. That pissed me off lol Edited December 22, 2009 by Gibbles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvhanh20 1,052 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 I am planning to get a MD arms drum sometime in the near future, Everything I hear is great and they have always been good When i have talked to them in the past. I Saw this on Chaos's website and I am really wanting to know more about it but it looks like a more condensed version of the drum. Does anyone know what they are up with it? and if there are any plans for a larger capacity one? It looks like this one holds 10 rounds and is pretty condensed. just wondering... Come on Cameron I really want a ten round drum I know you got other stuff in the works but is the ten drum scrapped or still a go Still ago on the mini drum, after the box mag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Modern Warfare 13 Posted December 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Wow i am very impressed by all the comment and information, i did look over forum information prior to posting this"drum wars" thing. I didnt want to make a decision blindly. Having not owned either and having seen videos of both stating they are each the best i wanted to ask people who have purchased and used. Obviously MD has the quality i have been reading and watching.I made myself a promise to "fix" the trigger system before earning myself a 20 rd drum =).....and shortly after posting this i had to buy a new graphics card for my old one fried....there goes trigger system money.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Mike's drum works great! I helped test one of the beta drums an even the beta worked very well. We have run hundreds of rounds through them as fast as Scoutjoe can pull the trigger, which is about 300-400 rounds a minute. No jams. Just lead and plastic flying out both ends. ......of ScoutJoe? I knew there was somethin' not right about that boy! All these Saiga-12s agreed that the MD-20 works better (This was the beta drum test day where I pull the trigger too fast, uncontrollably, accused of having an illegal automatic, etc etc) Sadly I don't have any good video from that day, would of came in handy the next week in front of the board I've fired a Wraithmaker and I didn't particularly care for the extra weight, it was a pain to lock in and I was having feed problems with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) I do not own an AA drum, and have only shot one a couple times recently. This was out of Vankiller's "Beast" full auto Saiga 12. I don't know the exact specs on the load (Fiochi target loads), but was put through the same gun with both drums only minutes apart. I have to say, the AA drum WAS easier to load, which was nice. Neither drum fit in my personal S-12, so I didn't get a chance to try them in mine. I DO own 2 MD drums however and they work just fine. Corbin Edited December 23, 2009 by Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Mike's drum works great! I helped test one of the beta drums an even the beta worked very well. We have run hundreds of rounds through them as fast as Scoutjoe can pull the trigger, which is about 300-400 rounds a minute. No jams. Just lead and plastic flying out both ends. ......of ScoutJoe? I knew there was somethin' not right about that boy! All these Saiga-12s agreed that the MD-20 works better (This was the beta drum test day where I pull the trigger too fast, uncontrollably, accused of having an illegal automatic, etc etc) Sadly I don't have any good video from that day, would of came in handy the next week in front of the board I've fired a Wraithmaker and I didn't particularly care for the extra weight, it was a pain to lock in and I was having feed problems with it. ...and now the asshat that accused you is out of a job! We can shoot whatever we want now, within the law. Kinda sad...in a way....that he got fired from the club. I enjoyed pissing him off! He would have LOVED my 10GA double! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ufo 20 Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 WAR? Why... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trichrome 1 Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 the md 20 functions flawlessly and is a true work of art created by an extremely talented and dedicated individual. aa sucks goat balls. you do the math :lolol: 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ufo 20 Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 It's not AA. My hi-math su*ks but i can count 1+1. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 BTW, MD Arms won! AA fucked up bad, they will not stand behind their product, and they treat people like crap. I'm a life time customer for MD Arms. not counting the Gunbroker bs for that bulgy parts kit, I'm still calling bs on the auction ending with buy it now @ $800 when my bid was @ $120 with 6 minutes left. That pissed me off lol First, this thread is funny! Thanks for the support guys. Gibbles, I'm not sure what your implying? Are you thinking I shill bid? I assure you I did not. For one I listed the stuff to sell, not babysit. And on top of that, I sold 5 kits with buy it nows. The price was $500 on the buy it nows. Only 2 sold for the buy it now, days before the auctions ended, both to the same guy, a member here and past customer. The 3 others went for I think $432 each or something like that. If your talking about the 20 kits I listed at a penny with no reserve... They had no buy it now price. And all were well over $120 days before the auctions ended... And 6 minutes left doesn't mean anything on gunbroker because if someone bids at the end it adds 15 minutes back. An item has to have no bids for 15 minutes to end on gunbroker. Just wanted to clear my name up on this. What your saying doesn't add up in many ways. I do have about 40 more kits and plan to list more for a penny with no reserve soon... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobRez 1,895 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I want a MD double stack or 12, Mike! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Modern Warfare 13 Posted January 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 MD 20 it is! now time to do my monthly saving to purchase! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KROSS FA 14 Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 No contest, MD20 hands down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gibbles 23 Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 (edited) BTW, MD Arms won! AA fucked up bad, they will not stand behind their product, and they treat people like crap. I'm a life time customer for MD Arms. not counting the Gunbroker bs for that bulgy parts kit, I'm still calling bs on the auction ending with buy it now @ $800 when my bid was @ $120 with 6 minutes left. That pissed me off lol First, this thread is funny! Thanks for the support guys. Gibbles, I'm not sure what your implying? Are you thinking I shill bid? I assure you I did not. For one I listed the stuff to sell, not babysit. And on top of that, I sold 5 kits with buy it nows. The price was $500 on the buy it nows. Only 2 sold for the buy it now, days before the auctions ended, both to the same guy, a member here and past customer. The 3 others went for I think $432 each or something like that. If your talking about the 20 kits I listed at a penny with no reserve... They had no buy it now price. And all were well over $120 days before the auctions ended... And 6 minutes left doesn't mean anything on gunbroker because if someone bids at the end it adds 15 minutes back. An item has to have no bids for 15 minutes to end on gunbroker. Just wanted to clear my name up on this. What your saying doesn't add up in many ways. I do have about 40 more kits and plan to list more for a penny with no reserve soon... It was just weird, it did have a buy it now price, it was a bulgy side folder back in oct. I could of been mistaken, but I did see lots of little buys and sells between that person and AA, I'm pretty sure it was MDarms... It actually worked out, I was gone on a hunting trip about a week longer than planned, so I was happy it sold to someone else. I'm not saying it looked crooked, but it did look really freakin weird, it was my bid for a week, then at the end someone ended with a buy it now right before it was going to end, keep in mind this was back in october... Edited January 27, 2010 by Gibbles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFox 69 Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 At Cobras Custom we have an AA drum. It is nearly as heavy empty as Mikes drum is loaded. It only works in S-12s that have had a combination of the bolt/carrier polishing, bolt/carrier re-profiling, gas ports opened and, 1911 recoil springs replacing the stock recoil springs. That is after the drum was modified to fit in the magwell. We now use it to prop the shop door open in the summer when it is hotter than hell. It works really good for that. After following Mikes fitting instructions the MD drum runs great even in stock S-12s minus the vodka specials that won't run anyway. The AA drum is $425.00 Plus Mikes drum is now only $120. That's 3 of mikes drums plus ammo and shipping for the price of one AA drum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFox 69 Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 (edited) BTW, MD Arms won! AA fucked up bad, they will not stand behind their product, and they treat people like crap. I'm a life time customer for MD Arms. not counting the Gunbroker bs for that bulgy parts kit, I'm still calling bs on the auction ending with buy it now @ $800 when my bid was @ $120 with 6 minutes left. That pissed me off lol First, this thread is funny! Thanks for the support guys. Gibbles, I'm not sure what your implying? Are you thinking I shill bid? I assure you I did not. For one I listed the stuff to sell, not babysit. And on top of that, I sold 5 kits with buy it nows. The price was $500 on the buy it nows. Only 2 sold for the buy it now, days before the auctions ended, both to the same guy, a member here and past customer. The 3 others went for I think $432 each or something like that. If your talking about the 20 kits I listed at a penny with no reserve... They had no buy it now price. And all were well over $120 days before the auctions ended... And 6 minutes left doesn't mean anything on gunbroker because if someone bids at the end it adds 15 minutes back. An item has to have no bids for 15 minutes to end on gunbroker. Just wanted to clear my name up on this. What your saying doesn't add up in many ways. I do have about 40 more kits and plan to list more for a penny with no reserve soon... It was just weird, it did have a buy it now price, it was a bulgy side folder back in oct. I could of been mistaken, but I did see lots of little buys and sells between that person and AA, I'm pretty sure it was MDarms... It actually worked out, I was gone on a hunting trip about a week longer than planned, so I was happy it sold to someone else. I'm not saying it looked crooked, but it did look really freakin weird, it was my bid for a week, then at the end someone ended with a buy it now right before it was going to end, keep in mind this was back in october... Lots of people wait tell the last 15 min to bid on high demand items and especially parts kits on GB. ETA: Apparently madmax4x4 and Alaskapopo are the new shills for AA... Or they are trying to be funny. Edited January 27, 2010 by KrisFox Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jasecloud4 2 Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Meh...MD is by far the best, but how many times is this question going to be asked? I mean really, sometimes I wonder if members just want to start a flame war for the hell of it...lol... Jasecloud4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 I'm afraid I am going to have to disagree with all the negative input about the fine product manufactured by AA. Of course like any new and inovative piece of equipment, there are going to be a few bugs to work out. They have offered to let you send them your Saiga 12 and alter your weapon to fit the Wraithmaker for a small fee. I have a Wraithmaker and I'm sure if I could get it to feed that first round, the other 19 would blow through like a greasy string through a hogs butt. I plan on sending my Saiga in to have it fitted. I just have to wait for my Camaro to come from the shop. I had to have the spark plug holes enlarged to accept the fancy spark plugs they sold me. I realize that in the future I will have to continue to buy spark plugs from them because since being altered, no other plugs will fit, but they look so cool! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I'm afraid I am going to have to disagree with all the negative input about the fine product manufactured by AA. Of course like any new and inovative piece of equipment, there are going to be a few bugs to work out. They have offered to let you send them your Saiga 12 and alter your weapon to fit the Wraithmaker for a small fee. I have a Wraithmaker and I'm sure if I could get it to feed that first round, the other 19 would blow through like a greasy string through a hogs butt. I plan on sending my Saiga in to have it fitted. I just have to wait for my Camaro to come from the shop. I had to have the spark plug holes enlarged to accept the fancy spark plugs they sold me. I realize that in the future I will have to continue to buy spark plugs from them because since being altered, no other plugs will fit, but they look so cool! Make sure to have them reset your lifters, top off your headlight fluid and elbow grease. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 This war was over a while ago, but with the new lower price the MD20 is now raping and pilaging AA's cities and salting the earth of their fields. Honestly who would even consider buy the AA drum when they could get three MD20s, which are vastly superior anyways, for the same price. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barefootH2O 1 Posted February 7, 2010 Report Share Posted February 7, 2010 to make the wraithmaker work right, you have to adjust your magazine release/paddle. Grind off a small portion of the bottom rear rounded angle, reinstall so it has more of an angle towards the barrel (/). This also eliminates the "custom" fitting you have to do to the MD20. In fact after doing this all my mags fit better. Just took Mike Sr. from AA 2 years to tell me how to fix the problem for a customer of mine. He wanted me to send it in for $160, Took me 10 mins to fix.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted February 7, 2010 Report Share Posted February 7, 2010 to make the wraithmaker work right, you have to adjust your magazine release/paddle. Grind off a small portion of the bottom rear rounded angle, reinstall so it has more of an angle towards the barrel (/). This also eliminates the "custom" fitting you have to do to the MD20. In fact after doing this all my mags fit better. Just took Mike Sr. from AA 2 years to tell me how to fix the problem for a customer of mine. He wanted me to send it in for $160, Took me 10 mins to fix.... barefootH20, Actually to make the wraithmaker work right you would need to redesign and replace the tower. It currently causes a condition that is kind of like the lottery. You have about a 50% chance of the shell being off each time one rises. AA does things to your gun to make the condition less likely to cause a hang, but it is still very much there. If you watch some of there first videos you will see them having FTEs with high brass... That should say a lot... Very few saiga-12s need the release lever ground due to being to long. The wraithmaker is not locking up due to interference that turns into a bind. If you had depressed the gear by about of an 1/8th inch it would probably have locked right in without any trimming on the lever, and still had a lot of slop in it. By grinding the lever, it only increases the play which translates into increased beating and wear on the rear mag catch on the wraithmaker. After your customer shoots around a 1000 rounds or 2 the rear mag catch will likely be destroyed to a point where the drum won't stay locked anymore, and probably would have happened even without trimming the lever, just not as fast. This has happened to a few already. The increased play will probably not effect his polymer mags in the same way. Aluminum is soft and the "hard anodizing" that AA uses is either not really hard anodizing or it is a bad process applying it because the finish on the wraithmaker drum acts nothing like true hard anodizing. It is easily scratched. True hard anodizing takes A LOT more effort to scratch up than the wraithmaker's finish. The "custom" fitting for my drum is so they can lock in with a very tight fit no matter what the tolerances of the customer's gun is. I could have and still could easily adjust the mold so they would lock into EVER gun without fitting. But I won't be doing this and will be keeping them the same. I like a nice tight fit without all that rattle and play. It isn't really a wear preventative measure for my drum, just personal preference. We have fired thousands of rounds through drums that where intentionally fit very loose to test wear. And even with 3 times the play that anybody should have in one, the rear mag catch doesn't show any beating wear on the rear mag catch. Even if you have a fitted MD-20 drum you can still use it in a gun that didn't need fitting preformed with no ill effects to the fitted drum. I know some people automatically think metal = better than polymer... The drum's polymer is not your typical and superior to aluminum in many ways. But really, I think for most the question of which to go with is 99% over between me and AA. Especially now that we have lowered our price. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barefootH2O 1 Posted February 7, 2010 Report Share Posted February 7, 2010 (edited) Damn it!!! Before I adjusted my customers paddle, I did the paddle work to both my saigas. I won't do anything for a customer unless I've done it to one of my own guns first. And the mags seem to fit better after I did this, My fault, I took Mike Sr's word F^&K!! without question, MD20 works out of the box. Wraithmaker, be prepared to go a few rounds with Mike Sr. at Alliance, I've screamed at him a few times over the phone. are you kidding me? it works in eight or nine out of ten Saigas eh??? I've put this thirty rounder in more than 15 saiga 12's, without paddle modification it falls right out after 2-3 shots. I did this paddle mod for my customer and he's happy with it after 2 years of it not working. Personally I would rather round an edge on a drum than grind his gun. Then again , I would do just about anything to get a $425 drum working, especially if the prick that made it wants an extra $160 to make $425 work right. Just my $.02 Edited February 7, 2010 by barefootH2O Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voonman 133 Posted February 7, 2010 Report Share Posted February 7, 2010 (edited) Well i feel like a horses ass..Maybe i should have waited 2 more weeks before i bought my MD20 drum.I would have saved $140 bucks.. At Cobras Custom we have an AA drum. It is nearly as heavy empty as Mikes drum is loaded. It only works in S-12s that have had a combination of the bolt/carrier polishing, bolt/carrier re-profiling, gas ports opened and, 1911 recoil springs replacing the stock recoil springs. That is after the drum was modified to fit in the magwell. We now use it to prop the shop door open in the summer when it is hotter than hell. It works really good for that. After following Mikes fitting instructions the MD drum runs great even in stock S-12s minus the vodka specials that won't run anyway. The AA drum is $425.00 Plus Mikes drum is now only $120. That's 3 of mikes drums plus ammo and shipping for the price of one AA drum. Edited February 7, 2010 by voonman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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