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Full Auto Siaga Conversion?


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i was cleaning my saiga was was touching up the trigger group when i noticed a little latch. now this picture shows the latch when the rifle is cocked and the trigger is not pulled.... (the red line is the space between the latch and hammer and the yellow line is the edge of the hammer. sorry about the picture quality)

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That "latch" you are looking at is the disconnector. It prevents the hammer from following the bolt carrier forward after the bolt carrier recocks the weapon. Just filing this down, or removing it all together will usually lead to the hammer following the bolt carrier forward. When this happens, there *usually* (I'm stressing usually) is not enough momentum in the hammer to cause the weapon to fire again.

 

On the rare occation that there is enough force in the hammer to fire the weapon, it is very possible that the weapon will fire "out of battery." This basically means that the round is not fully seated in the chamber, and in some instances, the chamber is not even closed. The obvious side effect of this is years of painful reconstructive surgery, assuming you survive.

 

An individual manufacturing a fully automatic weapon is illegal. Plain and simple. If your weapon goes bang more than once per trigger pull, it is either broken, in which case you need to be on your way to a gun smith right after you notice it, or it is an illegal automatic weapon, in which case your ass is BATF/FBI/Local Law Enforcement hamburger. (I'm sure I'm missing some of the alphabet soup of acencies that would love to meet you once they found out what you did)

 

Don't modify your trigger group to do something it isn't designed to do. For reference, a true fully automatic AK trigger group has a third axis pin that holds what is know as an autosear. The autosear, in combination with a special autodisconnector "times" the weapon, so that the hammer does not release until the round is fully seated in the chamber, and the chamber is fully closed. Without these special parts (which are illegal to add to a semi-automatic weapon), your modified "sorta-automatic" weapon would be nothing more than a cool timebomb waiting to blow up in your face.

Edited by Rusty
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I know alot of guys have thought about trying to fire thier rifle with a modified disconnector. It looks like it would work, but in reality the hammer never stops moving. It would rarely get far enough away from the bolt to hit the pin with any real force. And ofcourse, if it does fire, it is highly likely that a round will backfire into the action because the bolt is not forward enough to drop in front of the rails and seat the round. This would most likely blow the FCG pieces at the shooter, and turn the dust cover into shrapnel, or worse!

 

"Slam fires" happen when the hammer slips off the disconnector. The motion of the hammer is delayed just long enough for it to build momentum and fire the next round. The hammer then bounces back, gets caught momentarily, slips again and fires the next, then the next and so on. This has happened by accident to a few guys after making the conversion. If the disconnector and hammer catch are misaligned or just barely touching, it could fire several shots in a row until you let go of the trigger. The danger in this is the same as not catching the disconnector at all. You are unable to control the catching of the hammer, so therefore, you also cannot control when the hammer hits the fireing pin. If it slips off the disconnector before the round is fully seated.... Kaboom!

 

The AK design is a wonderfully simple and beautifully timed piece of deadly machinery. Without installing ALL of the correct automatic fire parts, you could never hope to achieve full auto fire from a semi auto design. In essence, anything but an auto reciever with an auto bolt and carrier, sear... etc. would be a poorly thought out rig job on a rifle that fires a rather large round. Without allowing the cycle to be completed, it would most certainly explode.

 

Bump fireing will give the same effect as an auto and is much safer and more controlable than anything else Ive seen, including those goofy he!! f!re trigger nightmares. I can dump a 30 round mag from my Saiga with pretty good accuracy (safely anyway) from the shoulder or hip in about 5 seconds. Its alot of fun and draws alot of attention. But like saan said, its an expensive waste of ammo. Not to mention, it heats up your rifle ALOT. Bump fireing is easy to do (I showed a guy how to do it, he was bumping full clips after 5 mins.) And it gives you that rush of excitement you feel when you are barking out rounds too fast to count. :D

 

This topic comes up alot. I know autos are the forbidden fruit, and thats why it crosses so many minds. But I would really hate to see someone get hurt or killed just for a few seconds of thrill. I have never seen a safe/reliable semi to full conversion. Even the recoil spring Ruger 10/22 kit that was sold at gun shows looked kind of dangerous to me. I always check and double check the fcg parts inside the reciever whenever I clean, adjust or mod. my rifle. I take extra care to make sure all parts line up correctly and do the job they were designed to do. I know if for some reason a part does not function properly, I could be killed instantly, and that makes me a little nervous. I dont even really bump fire alot because I know there is an off chance of getting a hot round to blow back or something to go wrong while fireing at high speed and possibly fire out of battery.

 

I hope this was helpful to anyone wondering the same thing about thier disconnector.

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How can one be sure the hammer and disconnector are properly aligned/installed? Are you pretty safe as long as you replace the fire control as a group, in other words, you dont use an aftermarket trigger and disconnector with a stock Saiga hammer? That scares the hell out of me! :eek::eek::eek:

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the little part yehp, its that simple. simply wiring it down or putting a shim between it and the trigger will also achive the same effect.

 

HOWEVER! (yeh, there is a but to this in case anyone is thinking about trying it)

 

there are a few things Id like to point out....aside from being a mandatory 2 years in fed prison and never owning a legal firearm again, that is....

 

first thing is this: an NFA ak has a sear in it. some parts places call the disconnector on our AKM types a sear, but its actually the disconnector. a sear on an AKM is what unhooks that disconnector AFTER the bolt is fully forward, (its a part that the bolt coming fully forward pushes down on and rotates, and in turn if the trigger is still depressed, disengages the disconnector. there are some variants of the AKM that have another part in there called a rate reducer, which does what its name suggests)giving the firing pin a proper strike, and also not riding the internal parts together while the gun is operating, like what would happen if you fired the gun without a working disconnector. see aforementioned slam fire. this WILL put stresses on any gun's internals that it was never designed for, and although the AKM type is very forgiving, it is made out of old beer cans by a blind man with hand tools.

 

this brings me to my next point. alloys for civilian ok weapons are NOT the same as a military only firearm. they are by law softer materials and are specifically like that to cause a firearm to malfunction. yeh, you might be able to slam fire your gun 100,000 times, but then again, it could very well fly apart and impale you after the first magazine you fire through it. the alloys are just not up to the stresses involved with FA fire. this is why an NFA part is banned even though it is an exact duplicate sometimes of a civilian part. for instance, a civilian AR15 has different alloys in it by law than its military counterpart. if one were to take thier ar15 and clobber something repeatedly with it like a bat, the reciver WILL fail. if you did the same with a military version, it wont even blink most likely.

 

and third, bump firing seems to operate the parts in the same manner as messing with your disconnector. if you cycle your action slowly and rapidly pull your trigger while letting the bolt fully forward, you will see the gun will let go of the hammer before the bolt is fully forward in most cases with an AKM. just something i wanted to point out. its a LITTLE safer to do, especially with an AKM type, but its still bad for the gun because the hammer is riding the bottom of the bolt as it travels forward to battery.

 

anyone cleaning thier AKM has noticed, this, so I think i might as well leave this topic up there for others to read over and see what COULD and probably WILL happen to you if you do this.

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Charger se, Alway make sure your disconnector makes good solid contact with the hammer catch surface when you hand cycle it. Also make sure your trigger hook or hooks are making a nice complete and firm hold on the trigger. I try to hand cycle my rifle occasionally to make sure its doing its thing in there and everything is lined up. Ofcourse I dont do it every time I go shooting, because its an AK. Sometimes its too easy to take for granted that it is as faithful as the sunrise.

 

Take off the dust cover and watch whats going on in the reciever as you slowly pull back the bolt handle to replicate the blowback action. Dont ever hand cycle your rifle with a live round in it. The AK is very simple and you will figure out how it works in a few minutes. Once the hammer is locked back into possition by the disconnector, let the bolt forward into the closed possition, then pull the trigger (you may ease the hammer forward if you dont want to dry fire your rifle) and keep the trigger pulled while you pull the bolt back again. This is the slow motion version of whats going on in there when you fire a round.

 

Good luck, have fun, and safe shooting!

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I have seen the effects of a non-proper working disconnector on an AK-47.

 

in this case, it was due to a broken disconnector-spring. The firearm went into FA without warning, and the operator was not able to get it to stop firing even letting go of the trigger.

 

he was *very* lucky it didn't fire out of battery.

 

usually thou, you'll get a "double tap" with a worn disconnector.

 

learn how to "bump fire" if you want 'Fun', yet in a safe and legal manner.

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