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SGM 308 bolt on muzzle brake now available $169.95


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Gee...thanks so much for your helpful nature as well as your tremendous insight on inflation as relates to how much less we all use to spend on guns & ammo.   Here are the details on this custom

$169.95.   Two years ago you could buy an S223 for just over $200.   Seeing as you're beating the shit out of your gun anyway, why not just remove the front sight post and thread the barrel.

So you fully admit to being a troll? Wow.   But your also a know-it-all as well? I'll just PM all my observations and notes to you for editing prior to posting.   Is there an ignore feature on

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Personally, I think its a wonderful idea... and I TRULY hope it works...

 

Catskip... in MY opinion... and it is an UNBIASED opinion... I think you got yourself all worked up a bit more negatively than was needed from buckandaquarterstaffs post... I thought he just made a simple observation on the price... and to be honest... when I saw the VERY first post saying $170 bucks... and my first thought, too, was "holy fuck thats EXPENSIVE!" After that he merely asked why not thread the barrel... he wasnt trolling, he wasnt being rude... just asking a question that has been asked here HUNDREDS of times in response to SIMILAR products that have, in the past, not lived up to expectations...

 

I dont understand why you had to get all pissy about it... just keep it friendly... and it would have been water under the bridge. :up:

 

That's just MY take on it, though... And I have been watching posts like this for MANY YEARS here... :lol: It never surprises me how people can get so bent out of shape, just because they have pride in their items, doesnt mean they are above others... you didnt seem quite so cocky about the idea HERE...

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=48228

 

Go figure...

 

 

 

 

:smoke:

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Sorry it's so late...a delayed Christmas get-together was decided at the last minute for this evening for some of my family.

 

~~~

 

Here's what I found out from SGM Tactical! Some of this info is specific to MY situation, and may NOT be applicable to YOUR situation. FOLLOW ALL INSTRUCTIONS that come with the item YOU receive, for YOUR situation. I'm not liable for anything you do with your equipment and how you use it.

 

~~~

 

YES the brake is relatively expensive and YES it's stout at ~14oz added weight. But there is some serious engineering that went into this brake, that SGM Tactical is confident will achieve great results.

 

The brake is designed specifically to increase accuracy as well as to achieve day-long comfort in shooting the more robust .308. Adding the SGM Tactical recoil pad is also part of the comfort equation. Obviously if you have a butt-stock that does not accept the SGM recoil reducing product, lots of other product is available that achieves similar results.

 

Flash reduction is NOT part of this products design.

 

Expect to achieve a noticeable increase in accuracy. (Muzzle rise is greatly reduced...duh!) A reduction in group size by ONE-HALF is to be expected. So if you've been shooting 3 to 4 inch groups at 100 yards, expect those groups to shrink to 1.5 to 2 inches. Do the math for your situation. Optics can make great results possible, and each shooter must do his/her part.

 

Now the mounting issues on my set-up:

 

When properly mounted, the front sight on my rifle will NOT be all the way forward into the slot/opening cut into the top of the brake. The important design safety concern is the minimum of 3/16ths inch of distance from the front of the front sight, to the end of the barrel. As is stated in the literature, if you don't have that minimum, do NOT mount. My rifle's distance is 1/4 inch, so I'm mounting the brake.

 

The other critical element is that the mounting/securing piece with the 4 large Allen screws, that fits into the large recess at the top of the brake, and behind the front sight, must seat flush into the recess for the Allen screws to tighten properly. On my rifle, there is a 'nub' of metal at the bottom-rear of the front-sight that will likely need to be 'dremeled down' to allow the mounting piece to seat flush.

 

I was advised to NOT use a rubber mallet to seat the brake into final position. The rubber allows too much energy wasted when the rubber rebounds. Instead, use a hammer with a non-marring NYLON head or use a block of wood against the brake face, and to NOT be afraid to whack it!...whack it hard!

 

Hope this helps those that may try this product!

 

:super:

Edited by CaptSkip
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Thanks for the info.

 

The weight would actually help the recoil. Mods are to be expected on anything to do with this rifle as Saiga is always changing one thing or another. The USSR may have fallen but they are still Russians so its to be expected.

 

For those wondering how accuracy is affected it was always explained to me that recoil itself affects both shooter and rifle so any reduction aids both accuracy and effective rate of fire. If you know of other reasons I would like to know also.

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As for me, i hope works out well for the folks that made the purchase. If it does then maybe they'll come out with a flash hider/compensator some time in the future. Hopefully it will be a little cheaper and won't weigh almost a pound. My s308 is already heavy enough.

 

 

I wish I had a more accurate scale in the ~1LB range. I'd like to weigh and compare this brake to a brake I used for a while on my SAR-1. I know a lot of folks have used or are using that one and it's pretty heavy too...the AK-74 'style' brake that's machined out of a hunk of steel.

 

Not the true AK-74 brake with the open internal chamber thingy and the two off-set ports/holes, but the USA made copy/'style' with the two in-line ports/holes...the one that usually sells for ~$20.

 

Anyway, I didn't notice that the added weight at the end of my SAR-1 was so much a problem with that heavy AK-74 'style' brake.

 

I'll have my conversion completed pretty soon...I hope! Waiting on Dinzag's FCG and a DPH Tri-Rail I just ordered from Greg at CSS and he's got it shipped! Cool! And MORE added weight! But better to balance the unit being closer to the receiver...ya think?! :lolol:

Edited by CaptSkip
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Unable to get a caliper up into the tight space of the inside of the brake, I was 'eyeballing' and eyeballing incorrectly...as the SGM rep advised...the forward face/edge of the end of the barrel assembly is LARGER than the innermost opening of the brake, and that's where forward travel stops. On my rifle, the FITTING REQUIRED TO ENABLE THE CLAMPING PIECE TO FIT FLUSH WITH THE LOWER MAIN PORTION OF THE BRAKE, AND ALLOW NORMAL TORQUING OF THE ALLEN SCREWS, WILL REQUIRE 'DREMELING'/REMOVING METAL AT THE BACK OF THE FRONT SITE POST.

 

I'm working that today and will post results later.

 

Also: To easily be able to remove the brake during fittings...if you go thru and include the final step of inserting the spacer-shim...the SGM rep advises to 'peen' the little catch-nob in the horse-shoe cut-out of the spacer, back up flush with the spacer, at-least until your ready for the final mounting.

 

Woo Hoo...I'm a guinea piggyin' here...Russian variation style!

 

:eek:

Edited by CaptSkip
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Yep, a troll with over 680 posts and two dozen conversions under my belt. Best of luck.

 

Well thanks so much!

 

You certainly have an interesting way of "rolling out the welcome mat" with un-helpful snarky postings to a new member whose first instinct was to join this site with a monetary contribution and then begin posting here to try to contribute and help folks.

 

Have I made a mistake?

 

I have a sweeet SAR-1 with a threaded barrel and a Primary Weapons Systems FSC47. I'm aware of features and benefits to a number of designs and weapons platforms. I'm on this thread because I'm trying this muzzle brake system and wanting to help folks that have also chosen to try this system. That is all.

 

It's fairly obvious a few here have already made the investment into this brake system and are efforting to make it work.

 

So your advice in beginning in #19 is to realize the error in our purchase, give-up, toss the SGM brake in the trash, and 'do it right' by threading the barrel. What have you contributed to the OP'ers subject, content and intent in the thread except to let everyone know you think it's all a mistake?

 

So pardon me If I responded negatively right-back-at-you...my mistake was taking the bait. Sorry.

 

If you again need some interpretation:

 

Holy fuck that is expensive

Why not merely thread the barrel

 

Also your feeble attempt to take the high road is amusing. If you want to stride the welcome mat, don't flame up when the obvious is stated. As a final point, there is an obvious difference between control and accuracy. Porting does not increase accuracy. If the product is claiming to change barrel resonance then OK, but I highly doubt they'd claim that with a non-tunable design weight.

Edited by buckandaquarterquarterstaff
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I dont suppose asking the same thing a second time to get someone riled up is trolling, is it? Buck???

 

Why cant we all just get along?!?!? :lol:

 

 

Makes MY job easier to say the least...

 

If you dont want to deal with what the bolt on crew are doing... move along... nothing to see here... we dont need to get them stirred up...

 

Thank you! :)

 

 

:smoke:

 

( Yes, thats indy's sarcastic and polite way of saying cease and desist trolling. )

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If you again need some interpretation:

 

Holy fuck that is expensive

Why not merely thread the barrel

 

 

 

Seriously, I don't think anybody in this thread really cares to hear your opinion AGAIN. :rolleyes: Yes it is expensive, but not everybody can legally thread the barrel, or they might not want to permanently alter the barrel, or they don't want to attempt to thread the barrel themselves or spend a bunch of money having a gunsmith do it. Clearly this product isn't made for you, but for one reason or another, there are others that are interested in it, so why don't you stop cluttering up the thread since you clearly have no interest in the product.

Edited by hlb3
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If you again need some interpretation:

 

Holy fuck that is expensive

Why not merely thread the barrel

 

 

Well...The muzzle items I'd consider mounting on this rifle are high-end units from ~$75 to $125+ to begin with...just my taste in these items now...not interested in units like the AK-74 'style' brake I once had on my SAR-1, where a PWS FSC47 now lives...and it's a $100 item. The thirty cal FSC30 is a $100 item.

 

Add in my gunsmith's charge of pressing off the FSB, re-mounting it one-pin back, and him threading the barrel, or me renting Dinzag's tools and threading it myself...yada, yada, yada...whatever combination of additional costs will be pushing the money I've spent so far or possibly even more money spent.

 

I really want to try this brake that was made specifically for this rifle. Simple. If the brake lives up to comfortable shooting and cutting group sizes by one-half, my S308 rifle will live for a long time with this brake on the front-end.

 

Some time in the future I may still customize the front-end further...who the fuck knows??

 

:smoke:

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Ok. This is do-able!

 

The major fitting required is going to be at the back of the front-sight, removing enough metal to allow the top-clamping section of the brake to fit down flush onto the top of the barrel and butted-up against the rear of the sight, and both pair of fore and aft Allen screws are equidistant above their bolt-holes in the lower portion of the brake.

 

If you mark on the sight where the front wing of the clamping portion is impacting, and where it needs to finally rest to be in position, then gradually remove metal with a dremel and appropriately shaped grinding wheels, you'll get there.

 

I'll have more notes to post later (PICs in a few days I hope), but dinner and a movie is on-deck.

 

:super:

Edited by CaptSkip
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CaptSkip -

Thanks for taking this on. Up to this point I have been looking at the PWS FSC30 brake and agree that with the initial cost of the brake and then the rental of items from Dinzag it would come out to about the same price as the SGM brake. Actually more, because I would also need to have the PWS brake rethreaded to a different diameter by Dinzag to deal with the larger diameter of the Saiga 308 barrel, so with postage etc it would be pushing $200. But to dramatically reduce recoil and increase controllability it would absolutely be worth the price. I will be curious to hear from you not only if your accuracy increases with the SGM brake, but also how much of an increase in blast and noise that you and others around you experience. One of the things I have been told about the PWS brake by the good folks at nokick.com is that there is little increase in noise because of the size of the chamber that the gasses pass through.

 

So good luck with getting that brake on your Saiga and thanks again for sharing your experience with us folks who are MOST interested in hearing about it.

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Glad to help Redwood...I love a project!

 

On mounting and removing the brake during fitting: Smoothing and polishing the left and right sides of the front sight base where the top rear of the brake assembly first rides/slides as you 'mallet' it rear-ward was sufficient on my rifle to get it seated. As I said in previous edits and posts, my first assumptions on 'inside the brake' seating were incorrect, and on my rifle, forward travel of the barrel into the brake stops when the face of the barrel-end impacts the wall of the forward-most opening inside the brake. Taking a measurement from that point inside the brake, and to the back edge of the brake, and then marking that measurement on my barrel confirmed when the brake was fully seated.

 

When mounted, the brake is SNUG! Removal requires a firm hold of the rifle in my vise, and I then used a Lyman 'Brass Tapper' hammer as a chisel, against one of the large forward faces of the clamp-section's cut-out, and then with a Vaughan SF-12 hammer, I whack the opposite head of the Lyman hammer very sharply at first, to get the brake to begin sliding forward and off. I used the nylon head of the Lyman hammer at first against the brake face...until it sheared off- DOH!, then switched to brass head side, and that works fine with no marring of the brakes steel.

 

For all 'pin-on' detractors and 'barrel threading only snobs' :wub:...

 

This brake is NOT your typically dismissed, shoddy POS, pin-on muzzle device that becomes a non-aerodynamic projectile that ends-up downrange!

 

When mounted correctly, this brake assembly is LOCKED around the barrel of the rifle directly behind the front sight!!

 

And that prcise engineering of the upper clamping part of the brake, seated directly on the top of the barrel, and the lower primary assembly of the brake and the spacing shim, directly around the lower half of the barrel, when it's all locked-up, insures absolute concentricity with the rifling of the barrel! Coool!

 

:smoke:

Edited by CaptSkip
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Has anyone received theirs yet??? I would love to see some pics (or video) of one installed. This thing looks bulky as hell and I imagine it looking like an orange on the end of a tooth-pick. I cant wait for some actual user feedback and pics!!! I need a muzzle device to complete my rifle...

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Has anyone received theirs yet??? I would love to see some pics (or video) of one installed. This thing looks bulky as hell and I imagine it looking like an orange on the end of a tooth-pick. I cant wait for some actual user feedback and pics!!! I need a muzzle device to complete my rifle...

 

 

If you'll read up-thread a bit you'll see the discussions as I've been fitting mine onto my rifle.

 

It's on there now...not permenantly...the shim/spacer is not in place, and I've not torqued the Allen bolts down...but it's on the rifle and I can snap a few pics before I remove it and shoot the front-end with Duplicolor before final fitting.

 

Be advised...I've yet to set-up a web-host for pics and will likely need my kids help to make the pics appear in a post. :lolol:

 

But I'll try to get that done this weekend.

 

Until then, I'll try to paint a word pic...I think it looks pretty sexy! Not like an orange on a toothpick, since most of the brake encompasses the front FSB, and the 'business-portion', with the ports and side openings, is about all that's out in-front of the barrel end.

 

I'll shoot some pics with the standard forearm and with the dph Tri-Rail that Greg got to me today...wow he's good!

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ughhhh.......so if you must have 3/16" of barrel in front of the fsb then this is not an option for us 16" barrel guys? Since the barrel is turned down and stops inside the fsb then this thing is no good for me. Dammit. When oh when is someone going to just make a direct replacement fsb with a built on brake? WTF?

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ughhhh.......so if you must have 3/16" of barrel in front of the fsb then this is not an option for us 16" barrel guys? Since the barrel is turned down and stops inside the fsb then this thing is no good for me. Dammit. When oh when is someone going to just make a direct replacement fsb with a built on brake? WTF?

I feel ya man I ended up sending my 16" saiga out to get the FSB moved and welded on a brake. Currently this is the only option besides getting a threading kit from dinzag and DYI.

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ughhhh.......so if you must have 3/16" of barrel in front of the fsb then this is not an option for us 16" barrel guys? Since the barrel is turned down and stops inside the fsb then this thing is no good for me. Dammit. When oh when is someone going to just make a direct replacement fsb with a built on brake? WTF?

 

tredding,

 

If your unmodified/stock barrel/FSB on your Saiga .308 16 inch...16.34 inch is listed on my rifle's box...has the minimum of 3/16th inch from the face/end of the 'barrel assembly' back to the front sight, you should be good-to-go with this system if you want to try. Measure your own rifle. My Feb2009 made rifle has 4/16th (1/4) inch distance back to the sight.

 

From the instructions: "Confirm a minimum of 3/16" (4.7mm) exists between the sight and end of firearm barrel. DO NOT install if less than 3/16"!!! Contact your dealer for refund."

 

I believe this brake is specifically for the 16.34 inch carbine (the shorter barrel carbine is the model that really needs a brake) as it comes from RAA/Izhmash.

 

The FSB unit has a forward section that cups/caps around and over the end of the actual barrel. If you look closely at the muzzle end, you can see the crowned barrel muzzle enclosed inside the FSB's end 'cap'. Brian at Dinzag has an excellent diagram of the factory configuration on his page 308 FSB Work.

 

[i'm liking this SAIGA .308 rifle so much that I may buy a 2nd with the 22 inch barrel, and trick-it-out using Dinzag's method of modifying/threading the barrel...which yes is the "purist" method of doing all this...and installing a Primary Weapons Systems FSC30 on that rifle.]

Edited by CaptSkip
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I believe this brake is specifically for the 16.34 inch carbine (the shorter barrel carbine is the model that really needs a brake) as it comes from RAA/Izhmash.

 

The FSB unit has a forward section that cups/caps around and over the end of the actual barrel. If you look closely at the muzzle end, you can see the crowned barrel muzzle enclosed inside the FSB's end 'cap'. Brian at Dinzag has an excellent diagram of the factory configuration on his page 308 FSB Work.

 

[I'm liking this SAIGA .308 rifle so much that I may buy a 2nd with the 22 inch barrel, and trick-it-out using Dinzag's method of modifying/threading the barrel...which yes is the "purist" method of doing all this...and installing a Primary Weapons Systems FSC30 on that rifle.]

 

This is the route that I took and I'm extremely happy with the results. I cut my 22"er back, trued and recrowned the muzzle, had dinzag ream out my FSB (along with some other awesome custom work where he welded a bar inside the base of the sight tower and then drilled it for a detent I added to index the 24mm 74 brake I got from him), moved the FSB back to where it needed to be and pinned it there, and threaded the muzzle for a threaded adapter. This is a solid and professional job adding a muzzle brake. Dinzag's work and the service he provides with the .308 is unmatched.

He even custom made me a lower HG retainer and didn't fuss when it had to go back for resizing after it turned out my barrel was overly large, even for one of the thicker barrels. I could not be happier with the way it turned out.

 

This "bolt on" brake is just what a lot of folks have been asking for though, who can't, or don't want to put the hard work into doing the necessary work to make it pro quality. I hope they sell a bunch of them.

post-1293-12623759739225_thumb.jpg

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ughhhh.......so if you must have 3/16" of barrel in front of the fsb then this is not an option for us 16" barrel guys? Since the barrel is turned down and stops inside the fsb then this thing is no good for me. Dammit. When oh when is someone going to just make a direct replacement fsb with a built on brake? WTF?

 

tredding,

 

If your unmodified/stock barrel/FSB on your Saiga .308 16 inch...16.34 inch is listed on my rifle's box...has the minimum of 3/16th inch from the face/end of the 'barrel assembly' back to the front sight, you should be good-to-go with this system if you want to try. Measure your own rifle. My Feb2009 made rifle has 4/16th (1/4) inch distance back to the sight.

 

From the instructions: "Confirm a minimum of 3/16" (4.7mm) exists between the sight and end of firearm barrel. DO NOT install if less than 3/16"!!! Contact your dealer for refund."

 

I believe this brake is specifically for the 16.34 inch carbine (the shorter barrel carbine is the model that really needs a brake) as it comes from RAA/Izhmash.

 

The FSB unit has a forward section that cups/caps around and over the end of the actual barrel. If you look closely at the muzzle end, you can see the crowned barrel muzzle enclosed inside the FSB's end 'cap'. Brian at Dinzag has an excellent diagram of the factory configuration on his page 308 FSB Work.

 

[i'm liking this SAIGA .308 rifle so much that I may buy a 2nd with the 22 inch barrel, and trick-it-out using Dinzag's method of modifying/threading the barrel...which yes is the "purist" method of doing all this...and installing a Primary Weapons Systems FSC30 on that rifle.]

 

I am aware of the dinzag diagram. That is what I mean. The barrel ends inside the sight. So are they saying only install if the barrel ends 3/16" before the end of the sight block? The way I read it, they want the barrel to stick out at least 3/16" past the sight block. I think they need a diagram for dummies like me. I am sure there are others like me who would read that, look at their rifle and say "damn, i don't have at least 3/16" of barrel past my sight" Not really willing to blow $170 to find out if it works.

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What some may be continuing to miss is that even in states where threaded barrels are not an issue, finding a GOOD smith to do the work can be very difficult. Ive talked to several that wont touch it and no longer do that kind of work. As for sending it off face it getting that barrel off for shipment is not going to happen in any numbers.

 

If the device works all well and good though Im not really looking to buy one as Im taking the barrel to 18" and may as well do the whole hog. Ive resigned myself to doing the work myself but I wouldn't dream of that being the normal way for most owners or put them down for finding an easier path.

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I am aware of the dinzag diagram. That is what I mean. The barrel ends inside the sight. So are they saying only install if the barrel ends 3/16" before the end of the sight block? The way I read it, they want the barrel to stick out at least 3/16" past the sight block. I think they need a diagram for dummies like me. I am sure there are others like me who would read that, look at their rifle and say "damn, i don't have at least 3/16" of barrel past my sight" Not really willing to blow $170 to find out if it works.

 

 

 

I believe it's the distance that is apparently design critical for mounting the brake to the rifle barrel...not whether that distance is achieved by a firearm front-end with a traditional crowned barrel muzzle itself, or one with a FSB's cap that terminates at the front around the barrel's muzzle.

Edited by CaptSkip
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