Wow now thats really broken

[DyLonX5 3]

Went to the range today and had my friend with me. Went to load up the 10 rounder and it only took 8 and jammed bad.. Like dump the mag and the fallower stayed lodged in the bottom. Came home and took it apart and this is what I found.

 

 

 

I've read they break into like 3 pieces but wow hahahah. Hope I can get a new spring for this mag, it worked sooo well before.

 

Dylan

[GeorgiaPD 408]

Dylan,

 

I've had the same thing happen to me. Call AGP, let them know what happened and they will send you a new spring. Something about a batch being over tempered and such.

[DyLonX5 3]

Yeah I know. I read about that and figured I was safe. Don't get me wrong I'm not downing them at all, I love this mag and will buy many more. Just a shame that something like this has given them a dirty mark in the eyes of other people.

[TWGLADF 0]

how do you excuse this from happening in a life or death firefight? so when you buy any of their mags you dont know if the spring will be a good one or bad one? which mag do you grab when shit hits the fan? this is exactly why i have yet to buy any of the korean glock mags. sure they have all the bells and whistles of factory glock mags, with the exception of the spring of course, the mags weakest link. i'm not gambling. not with my time at the range, or with my life. mag reliabilty is of the utmost importance.

[DyLonX5 3]

In a life or death firefight I would grab my FNP45 over the Saiga. Honestly TO ME the saiga is just my toy if you will. I would also grab my Mossy 500 too.

[bullturkey 2]

Is that rust on the sprimg?

[3ac6ucb 24]

Is that rust on the sprimg?

 

Looks like it. Rust alone wouldn't have caused that failure, though. Probably heat treated wrong. There may be other bad AGP springs from this batch, but the rusty ones seem to be cracking first. So just 'cause you haven't allowed yours to rust doesn't mean you're safe.

 

It makes you wonder... how do you stamp a serial number or do a rockwell hardness test on a skinny round wire?

[DogMan 2,343]

In a life or death firefight I would grab my FNP45 over the Saiga. Honestly TO ME the saiga is just my toy if you will. I would also grab my Mossy 500 too.

Wow. That's the first time I've heard anyone say their Saiga is "just a toy". In my view it's too good a weapon to be a toy. Mags can be a problem but there are answers. Spend a little extra money on a couple good Russian 8 rounders or use your original 5 rounder and you'll have anything BUT a toy. I've got a Mossy 500 too, and there is just no comparison.

[Nitrowing 0]

No, mine's a toy. I'd pick up my old side-by-side before anything else I own. Same as my ol' gram-pappy had by his bed.

[billyjoebob 10]

I had the same problem with one of my 3 AGP mags.

 

According to AGP, they had a batch of heat tempered springs get mishandled in the manufacturing process, and they are now brittle and prone to rust. All you have to do is call them, and they'll ship out replacements springs to ALL your AGP mags that may be affected. I got 3 new springs and a UPS return label for the old ones inside of a week.

 

And to be safe, I hit the new springs with a light coat of CLP...just because I hated seeing that rust on mine.

[volkov 318]

happened to me after one use. Didn't know they did free replacements, so I bought a surefire spring and put it in instead.. Works great!

[DogMan 2,343]

No, mine's a toy. I'd pick up my old side-by-side before anything else I own. Same as my ol' gram-pappy had by his bed.

 

That's just stupid.

[DyLonX5 3]

The only time I'd have to use a weapon would be here at home and honestly the saiga is too big and bulky for me to be using in close quarters. The pistol I can keep great control over and move around freely. If I were going into a war I would take my saiga then because to me it's more of a full battle rig. Now if I had a Tromix 8" I'd grab that for my house gun.

[sunnybean 939]

I had the same problem with one of my 3 AGP mags.

 

According to AGP, they had a batch of heat tempered springs get mishandled in the manufacturing process, and they are now brittle and prone to rust. All you have to do is call them, and they'll ship out replacements springs to ALL your AGP mags that may be affected. I got 3 new springs and a UPS return label for the old ones inside of a week.

 

And to be safe, I hit the new springs with a light coat of CLP...just because I hated seeing that rust on mine.

 

AGP will not send you new springs unless they break. I have five mags with rusty springs. Some have a light rust. Some have with a heavy rust. I was told "chances are they should be fine." I guess I have to wait until they break for replacement springs.

[3ac6ucb 24]

That sucks. I've got a couple older AGP gen 2's with no rust on the springs, but I'm still paranoid after this screwup.

 

Will AGP sell replacement springs? Otherwise I may have to pre-emptively break mine just to be able to replace them.

[sunnybean 939]

Yeah, they sell replacement springs for $8ea. But I would think that when you buy them brand new and they have heavy pitting on the springs they'd do a swap for free. I guess I'm wrong.

[Raoul_Duke 113]

But I would think that when you buy them brand new and they have heavy pitting on the springs they'd do a swap for free. I guess I'm wrong.

It was like pulling hen's teeth to get Kevin to exchange my rusty springs. Several days of emailing back and forth. I can not for the life of me understand why someone would think it's okay to sell things as new when they're covered in rust. It may be "new" because it has never been used, but if it's covered in rust it's obviously in poor condition. I have surplus AK mags that only God knows how old they are, and none of them have rust . . .

[sunnybean 939]

I guess I'll chalk it up to another company that has now lost all future business from me.

[Gibbles 23]

But I would think that when you buy them brand new and they have heavy pitting on the springs they'd do a swap for free. I guess I'm wrong.

It was like pulling hen's teeth to get Kevin to exchange my rusty springs. Several days of emailing back and forth. I can not for the life of me understand why someone would think it's okay to sell things as new when they're covered in rust. It may be "new" because it has never been used, but if it's covered in rust it's obviously in poor condition. I have surplus AK mags that only God knows how old they are, and none of them have rust . . .

 

I have an old AK mag that I tripped over in the middle of the southern utah desert right after a huge rain storm/flood that the water washed away the dirt... I picked that sucker out of the ground and threw it in the back of my truck, took it home to remove all of the dirt clods and scraped away the rust from the body of the mag, took it out and it ran perfect!

Springs were a lil rusty but not bad.

[Gibbles 23]

Rusty mag springs from new mags is kinda common, it has to due with the metal they used.

 

I got a batch of AR mags that were rusty from the factory, but the manf offered to replace the springs for free, no questions asked.

[Raoul_Duke 113]

Rusty mag springs from new mags is kinda common, it has to due with the metal they used.

 

I got a batch of AR mags that were rusty from the factory, but the manf offered to replace the springs for free, no questions asked.

Well then, they should use a better metal or properly coat/treat the springs if the metal they used is prone to rust. And when they realized they make a bad decision and a mistake, by choosing a rust prone metal for a spring, the company should own up to it, not try to explain to customers how rusty metal is okay. BULLSHIT! I know what happens when metal rusts, it falls apart. Now why would I want to buy springs that are just waiting to fall apart?

 

And AR mags are a shit-ton cheaper than S-12 mags, in general. If Kevin would have replaced my rusty springs without all the pussy-footing and bullshitting, I would only be able to post about what great customer service AGP has.

 

But he didn't. And they don't.

[Azkamidaka 26]

I guess I'll chalk it up to another company that has now lost all future business from me.

 

That is certainly a very interesting opinion from where I stand. I remember when I couldnt wait for the 10 rounders to first come out. I remember when I first came into the saiga world the Warfield armory BHO put out by Jeric was the cutting edge, HALO MFG. Quadrails (HAH!) were just coming out. AGP was one of the first to step into a brave new world that started more people's interest in these weapons, and thus in the end result expanded their customization. I first started out with two Gen. 1's and man I thought they were sweet, even sweeter that they replaced the Gen. 1's feed lips free of charge and shipping. Then when Kevin at AGP offered freely to replace my two Gen 1's with as many Gen 2's as I wanted to buy at a discounted rate I picked up four AGP Gen 2's thereby retiring the Gen 1's. After becoming aware of this spring issue I tore down and thoroughly inspected my Gen 2's and none of them have this condition as of yet. I'd have to say that AGP will always have my business as long as they are providing a product I would love to have.

 

Here is the reality. AGP was one of the first, pioneers...before magwells. The here is now, last I checked. Compact ten shell drums and steel magazines from one company and double stack stick mags from another are coming out in the near future. Besides the length of the AGPs are a bit ostentatious if you were seriously going to take your weapon to a combat environment.

 

Anyway, best regards.

 

 

Edit to add: A mere five posts down and you can see what some other responses were from some of the technologies competition.....out of my experiences with AGP ive never had such a response. http://forum.saiga-1...showtopic=48602

 

Freakin' sweet that there's good stuff on the horizon isn't it?

Edited January 7, 2010 by Azkamidaka

[sunnybean 939]

I guess I'll chalk it up to another company that has now lost all future business from me.

 

That is certainly a very interesting opinion from where I stand. I remember when I couldnt wait for the 10 rounders to first come out. I remember when I first came into the saiga world the Warfield armory BHO put out by Jeric was the cutting edge, HALO MFG. Quadrails (HAH!) were just coming out. AGP was one of the first to step into a brave new world that started more people's interest in these weapons, and thus in the end result expanded their customization. I first started out with two Gen. 1's and man I thought they were sweet, even sweeter that they replaced the Gen. 1's feed lips free of charge and shipping. Then when Kevin at AGP offered freely to replace my two Gen 1's with as many Gen 2's as I wanted to buy at a discounted rate I picked up four AGP Gen 2's thereby retiring the Gen 1's. After becoming aware of this spring issue I tore down and thoroughly inspected my Gen 2's and none of them have this condition as of yet. I'd have to say that AGP will always have my business as long as they are providing a product I would love to have.

 

Here is the reality. AGP was one of the first, pioneers...before magwells. The here is now, last I checked. Compact ten shell drums and steel magazines from one company and double stack stick mags from another are coming out in the near future. Besides the length of the AGPs are a bit ostentatious if you were seriously going to take your weapon to a combat environment.

 

Anyway, best regards.

 

 

Edit to add: A mere five posts down and you can see what some other responses were from some of the technologies competition.....out of my experiences with AGP ive never had such a response. http://forum.saiga-1...showtopic=48602

 

Freakin' sweet that there's good stuff on the horizon isn't it?

 

I understand what the AGPs did for the S-12 platform. I know that there are many, like yourself, that were treated right when the first gen mags came out with issues. That is all good. I'm not discounting any of that.

 

What I am saying is exactly what Raoul Duke said in post #21 of this thread. Kevin knew these springs were bad when he sent the mags out. He told me that they arrived to him with rust. He then proceeded to BS me and tell me that the rust is okay and that there "shouldn't" be a problem...until they break. I cannot think of a single thing made from metal (unless it's a patina decoration) that isn't negatively effected by rust. Hell, the AGP website is full of it when they say, "To our knowledge none of the springs in our 10rd mags have required replacement yet." The OP (and others like it) is proof that this is not true and they know it.

 

You may think my previous comment was strange. Consider my point of view. I purchased over $400 worth of AGP mags. After seeing the rust issues popping up around here I opened all of the mags up to see if any of them might have rust. Low-and-behold half of them have rust. After a few weeks of not getting any response via e-mail from AGP, I phoned them. Then, I was told that everything is fine...the rust doesn't effect anything, and they need to break before they can be replaced....or pay another $8ea for new springs. Screw that! I feel like I got cheated. A person/company's reputation is built on how they handle their own fuck-ups. And it is my humble opinion that they have failed here. It's no wonder that one of the leading retailers/vendors on this wonderful site no longer sells these mags.

 

I completely agree with you that the future is bright. I am eagerly awaiting more mag options for both the S-12 and the S-20 platforms. CHAOS, MDA, and CSSPECS have some really great looking mags coming. I wish them all the best. Like Raoul said earlier, I'd like to be here singing high praise about how AGP righted their wrong. Instead all I have is this bitter taste in my mouth.

[StealthyBlagga 4]

In a life or death firefight I would grab my FNP45 over the Saiga. Honestly TO ME the saiga is just my toy if you will. I would also grab my Mossy 500 too.

Wow. That's the first time I've heard anyone say their Saiga is "just a toy". In my view it's too good a weapon to be a toy. Mags can be a problem but there are answers. Spend a little extra money on a couple good Russian 8 rounders or use your original 5 rounder and you'll have anything BUT a toy. I've got a Mossy 500 too, and there is just no comparison.

 

I feel the same way - my Saiga 12 is a fun range toy and runs reliably, but is probably one of the last guns I would grab out of my gunsafe for self-defense.