Jpanzer 1,265 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Ran across this site on another board. Have some interesting items here and there. Anyone know anything about these guys? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saigafreake 27 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 watch out they are formely known as hesse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Agreed. Stay far away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
reb1861 14 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 whats the deal with them,bad deals or cons? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 whats the deal with them,bad deals or cons? You can't go to a gun forum and not find stories about Hesse and Co. What does it tell you when a company changes it's name every couple of years? Use the search (here and on any other gun forum [or google]). . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motopilot1 37 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 if your just buying parts there is absolutely nothing wrong with them. example furniture gas blocks stuff like that. i wouldnt buy any rifles or ar uppers or anything like that from them though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Run AWAY! Complete and utter CRAP! I wouldn't buy parts from them either. Who knows WHAT they're made from? Hesse/Vulcan/Blackthorne/whatever the fuck they call themselves now have had catastrophic failures on multiple products sold by them with absolutely no responsibility taken. What's your life worth? Spend a couple bucks more and get decent products from a company with a known good reputation. Ever hear of a 50BMG rifle blowing its bolt back into a shooters face? It was made by Vulcan. It happened at Reade Range in PA during a sanctioned FCSA match. The FCSA BANNED use of ALL Hesse/Vulcan/etc. guns at their matches. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Run AWAY! Complete and utter CRAP! I wouldn't buy parts from them either. Who knows WHAT they're made from? Hesse/Vulcan/Blackthorne/whatever the fuck they call themselves now have had catastrophic failures on multiple products sold by them with absolutely no responsibility taken. Awww. now you started it. . The infamous "pot metal" AR15 receiver, produced by Vulcan/Hesse (this isn't the only reported instance out there, as there have been multiple reports of this happening) They have all kinds of gun parts made, not just receivers. . . I'll say it again: Stay away from them. You can't say you've not been warned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 They buy surplus ak gear from the same distributors every other vendor gets theirs from. Staying clear of critical US-made parts might be a good idea due to their reputation, but I don't see a reason not to order some of the stuff on their site. If you do end up buying anything please let this forum know how your experience went. I would be curious. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jpanzer 1,265 Posted January 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Thanks for the heads up guys! I was intruiged by the Valmet style flash hider/front sight but I'll steer clear of these crooks... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motopilot1 37 Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 not to defend them in any way, because i know they put out crap but i bought all the parts for my micro galil conversion from them and the none critical parts are as was said above not a problem. gas tubes and items like that are the same part that you would get from another distributor. all the parts i picked up from them were good quality and are still holding strong. as stated i didnt buy anything critical. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Its a shame... I would love to build a Ar-15 LAR, especialy at that uppers price... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 What I want to see is the documented sites/images/firsthand experience with the junk these guys sell that has happened in the past 3-5 years! Everything I see is "someone knew a guy" or " I read about this" or " I heard that..." I want to see the posts of FIRSTHAND ACCOUNTS of the failures... If one guy tells 20 guys they are junk and they tell 20 guys and they tell 20 guys... the whole internet knows they are junk cause someone way back told a story of what they heard... I am SURE one did blow out, or break, or fuck up... Thats fine... I want to know the dates, the model, and who was shooting it, and what they said after the fact... I want the FACTS... not he said-she said... Even you Nalioth... I know thats *NOT* YOUR broken AR15 frame... you usually have a pretty big shovel... What can you dig up for FACTS?? I have a Vulcan 50BMG rifle, and so far its been pretty decent... I am NOT afraid to fire it... never have been! SO can people find links to posts by REAL people that have had real firsthand troubles with Vulcan within the past 3-5 years?? or anytime in the past 10 what the heck... lets go all out!! What do ya got??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 I recommend yall stay away from FN products!! Fabrique Nationale Herstal out of BELGIUM products are JUNK!!! They are DEATHTRAPS waiting to explode in your hands!!! TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW!!!! STAY AWAY FROM the FN FIREARMS!!!! A gun exploded in a customer's hands and the manufacturer doesn't seem to care, according to a graphic post by f3rr37 in the FivesevenForums. He wrote, "On the 2nd round I realigned my sights, slowly pulled the trigger, and all hell broke loose. I saw bits and pieces of the top of the slide cover blow. My first reaction was, "Oh crap what just happened." My second reaction was, how are my hands?" F3rr37 sough medical attention and two days later contacted Five-seveN customer support. After a series of followup calls, Five-seveN said they were sending out a pre-paid packing slip for the gun and would inspect it, destroy it, and give f3rr37 a "deep discount" on a new gun. A month later, none of these promises have materialized. F3rr37 thinks the problem with the gun is that it fired "out of battery," and that the problem with Five-seveN is that they just wish he would go away. Which is odd, considering that they are supposed to have a great reputation for being customer friendly. F3rr37 pledges, "Until they make this right, I will never buy another FN product again and will continue to share my experience with what happens when a FiveseveN fires out-of-battery." http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=134212 actually, FN is pretty good stuff... so when they get a fuckup... why doesnt the whole internet run scared of their fiveseven pistols??? They will fire with an eighth inch out of battery if you get one of the fucked up ones... FLAME ON!!! LOL I am sure its coming!!! I still want to see the firsthand accounts... not just the he said she saids... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 (edited) What I want to see is the documented sites/images/firsthand experience with the junk these guys sell that has happened in the past 3-5 years! Everything I see is "someone knew a guy" or " I read about this" or " I heard that..." I want to see the posts of FIRSTHAND ACCOUNTS of the failures... If one guy tells 20 guys they are junk and they tell 20 guys and they tell 20 guys... the whole internet knows they are junk cause someone way back told a story of what they heard... I am SURE one did blow out, or break, or fuck up... Thats fine... I want to know the dates, the model, and who was shooting it, and what they said after the fact... I want the FACTS... not he said-she said... Even you Nalioth... I know thats *NOT* YOUR broken AR15 frame... you usually have a pretty big shovel... What can you dig up for FACTS?? I have a Vulcan 50BMG rifle, and so far its been pretty decent... I am NOT afraid to fire it... never have been! SO can people find links to posts by REAL people that have had real firsthand troubles with Vulcan within the past 3-5 years?? or anytime in the past 10 what the heck... lets go all out!! What do ya got??? Don't believe? Contact the Fifty Caliber Shooter's Association at: FCSA™ P.O. Box 111 Monroe, UT 84754-0111 Ph: (435) 527-9245 Fax: (435) 527-0948 Web Page: Official FCSA Site Email: Email FCSA I made it easy for you to get the info directly from FCSA. Enjoy. Edited January 6, 2010 by patriot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I prefer "he said/she said" to gun exploding in my face personally. Even if it's not firsthand, reputations tend to be well deserved, and they have a terrible one which has forced them to change their names multiple times.. I reckon that says something. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saigafreake 27 Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 You dont change your name 5 times and have the worst rep in the industry by makin quality products. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I DID NOT say they made quality products... I did not say they had a good reputation... all I am asking for is FIRSTHAND REPORTS... nothing more. I have NEVER seen one... I would like to, its that simple. I think you all misunderstand my position... I am not trying to change anyone's opinion... I am just asking for FACTS. I dont think I am asking for much, if the reputation is SO BAD, the facts should be EASILY LOCATED!!! SHOW ME THE FACTS! And, I HAVE sent an email for FCSA... asking about them being banned... I await their response. again... that would be the first bit of proof I will have received. which is good! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 all I am asking for is FIRSTHAND REPORTS... nothing more. I have NEVER seen one... I would like to, its that simple. ... the facts should be EASILY LOCATED!!! Search engines are your friend.... It's good to become familiar with their use. I know Hesse/Vulcan/POS mfg/etc make crap. I don't need to search....you do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wakal 10 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Lets see...my first (and last with my own money) story was years ago when I sent one of the Vulcan pistol uppers back for work three times. Finally got sick of dealing the asshats and learned how to properly build 7" AR's. Got me into the whole AR game, so that actually was a plus (laughs). Had two customers with two rifle kits each (total of four, for those counting at home) came by the shop for my usual "building AR's for bozos" class (also known as "...you bring some parts and then build your gun and avoid paying excise tax" class) three or four months ago. All four hammers were not finish machined before being Parkerized and assembled. All four uppers did not have the plunge cut for the charging handle detents. Yeah, they are cheap. Sometimes they even work. I'm no expert with AR's, and I'm no big (or big name) shop, but I did (looking at my records) build just over 700 last year. I recognize AR parts two out of three times Alex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jager 1 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 I have purchsed AK parts, a Galil parts kit and magazines from Blackthorne. I had the parts kit arrive with one wrong part and another part missing. If your in need of Galil parts; at some point you need to deal with Blackthorne. The parts I have gotten are all new and not had any issues other than the two described. They are a bit excessive with their shipping costs sometimes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Thank you Alex... That's the type of thing I am looking for... ACTUAL "FIRSTHAND" experience... I am actually trying to compile some data on all this... and he said she said just wont cut it... As far as SEARCH ENGINES being my friend... all the shit I get when I search is " I heard this and that" or "so and so said" or "I was told such and such"... never " My name is... and this happened TO ME!" I wish I COULD find shit like that, and I am STILL Waiting to hear back from the 50 cal shooters assn. nothing from THEM yet... couldnt find ANYTHING in their literature on their site... so I had to email them direct and ASK... ah well... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 I found this reply VERY interesting... Hi Mike,I sent out an email to our Board and there is not a ban and they are not aware of any problems with the Vulcan. Hope this answers your question. Sincerely, Karen Ritarita Secretary/Treasurer > Greetings, > > Is it true that Vulcan 50 BMG firearms have been banned from FCSA > competitions due to their reputation and potential for failure during > firing? > > Thank you. > > > Sincerely, > > Mike indelicato If anyone would like I can actually FORWARD this email to anyone... That was the email and reply verbatim... Very odd indeed... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) So, according to the note, there IS NOT a ban. Not WAS not a ban. hmmmmmmmmmm......... Reade would not allow them on the range due to the mishap I mentioned a few years ago. At that time there as a lot of buzz on the FCSA forum, and quite a list of clubs that didn't let owners sign up for matches. The Vulcan blowup happened. I have personally examined a Vulcan that appeared to have been bedded with hot glue, and another was reported to me by a fellow member that was short-chambered and wouldn't allow the bolt to close on a chambered factory round. Maybe some serious coin greased the correct palm. Money can cure even the foulest reputation.... Either way, believe me or not...there's WAY too much smoke for there to not be a fire. Edited January 9, 2010 by patriot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 I recall in my reading of some of the links I was pursuing relevant to the FCSA ban, that "the current range officer has final say in whether to allow a certain firearm to be allowed in competition"... It is very likely that said individual, whomever they might have been, did indeed DISALLOW any Vulcan firearms from competition at that time frame, in essence "banning them" and thats the "word of mouth about the "ban", that got around... I wonder... I noticed you mentioned something about this... Dominican 50BMG: OVERPRESSURE. Has blown up guns. I wonder if any vulcan users had a bunch of that handy and learned the hard way... Back to the bolts not closing on the rounds, though... I had similar happen with mine only recently... I had loaded up some rounds, with some brass I received from someone else, that was already fired... It was run through a full length resizing die and loaded with my usual loads. (I would like to point out that the ammo I have purchased in the past from "Talon" has always worked perfectly in my rifle. and that was the brass that I had been reloading and firing right along. Brass was always inspected, trimmed, loaded according to the specs they should have been... ) so with this "other brass" I noticed that it was EXTREMELY difficult to close the bolt on some of the rounds... If I had to guess the shoulders were out of spec... now WHY this didnt change when I full length resized I cannot say... I was able to close the bolt on some, they fired nice as you please, and in fact then were "fireformed" to my barrel, as they would then seat as nice as ever after that... I have also NEVER had any issues with OPENING my bolt after firing... nor did these rounds give any such issues. My rifle has had its issues... I will list them here so you can say " told ya so" LOL When the scope rail was tightened completely against the upper portion of the receiver the screw was too long and poked down through causing the bolt to hit it and not chamber properly... the same happened with a lower bolt holding the stock to the receiver... I think as it was removed and retightened a few times, I managed to crush the stock a little bit as it was not a problem at first, just over time... I just dremeled the tips off the bolts so they did not protrude through, but were flush or slightly less... The trigger was HORRID, was replaced with a Timney. I had a primer puncture, causing the firing pin spring to become fubar. There's a thread in the other section about that... I also think that because I switched to a different primer, it had something to do with it... I DO NOT LIKE the CCI35 "ARSENAL" primers... and I have almost a thousand of them... Other than that... its been a good shooter, and surprisingly accurate! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ZA_Survivalist 7 Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 I know this thread is old but.. A LONG while back when I wasn't familiar with arms dealers and companies.. I ordered from "Black Thorn Products".. $450.. About 5 minutes later I started coming up upon thread after thread slamming the former Hesse former Vulcan Arms and now Black Thorn company. Took everything in my power to get my money back.. In the end I came out alright.. but I learned my lesson. I NEVER purchase anything without doing my HW. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Better get the bullhorns out... another 50 blew up... http://www.50beowulf.com/bboard/showthread.php?t=4000 http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=258508 I dont think the words Hesse or Vulcan can be attributed to this one, though... whatever brand they were, they must be JUNK... and I would NEVER buy one!!! Shoddy materials and workmanship to say the least... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I wonder... I noticed you mentioned something about this... Dominican 50BMG: OVERPRESSURE. Has blown up guns. I wonder if any vulcan users had a bunch of that handy and learned the hard way... Back to the bolts not closing on the rounds, though... I had similar happen with mine only recently... I had loaded up some rounds, with some brass I received from someone else, that was already fired... It was run through a full length resizing die and loaded with my usual loads. (I would like to point out that the ammo I have purchased in the past from "Talon" has always worked perfectly in my rifle. and that was the brass that I had been reloading and firing right along. Brass was always inspected, trimmed, loaded according to the specs they should have been... ) so with this "other brass" I noticed that it was EXTREMELY difficult to close the bolt on some of the rounds... If I had to guess the shoulders were out of spec... now WHY this didnt change when I full length resized I cannot say... I was able to close the bolt on some, they fired nice as you please, and in fact then were "fireformed" to my barrel, as they would then seat as nice as ever after that... I have also NEVER had any issues with OPENING my bolt after firing... nor did these rounds give any such issues. My rifle has had its issues... I will list them here so you can say " told ya so" LOL When the scope rail was tightened completely against the upper portion of the receiver the screw was too long and poked down through causing the bolt to hit it and not chamber properly... the same happened with a lower bolt holding the stock to the receiver... I think as it was removed and retightened a few times, I managed to crush the stock a little bit as it was not a problem at first, just over time... I just dremeled the tips off the bolts so they did not protrude through, but were flush or slightly less... The trigger was HORRID, was replaced with a Timney. I had a primer puncture, causing the firing pin spring to become fubar. There's a thread in the other section about that... I also think that because I switched to a different primer, it had something to do with it... I DO NOT LIKE the CCI35 "ARSENAL" primers... and I have almost a thousand of them... Other than that... its been a good shooter, and surprisingly accurate! It sounds like a truly one of a kind fine weapon you've got there... I'm glad you're happy with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 It sounds like a truly one of a kind fine weapon you've got there... I'm glad you're happy with it. Me too... I just hope that such luck sticks with it, and that THAT never changes... I read junk and start to worry... Then I go shoot it a bit and that restores my confidence in it... Then I read more crap and I start all over. LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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