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volkov

Bolt on LHG retainers

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Guys.. I've been searching for a while and I was just wondering if there is any available bolt on lower handguard retainer apart from dinzags. 85$ is really busting the budget, although I realize that that is a very fair price for one of the fine custom parts dinzag makes, and if my budget wasn't as stretched at the moment I wouldn't think twice about buying his part (my budget is partially crapped because I REALLY want to buy the dinzag S12 gas tube conversion which is absolutely awesome and I'm saving for).. I'm not saying his lower HG retainer is too expensive.. please keep that in mind.. I'm more curious as to if there is a cheaper, lower quality alternative. I can't seem to find any. If not I'll probably go with dinzag since if I'm going to spend 85$ on a retainer I want to be sure it's worth it and from my experience dinzag's pieces definately fit the bill. I'm just curious as to what my alternatives are, mainly in order to save money for my gas tube conversion.

 

Thanks!

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Its not to hard to make your own, out of a regular AK lower retainer, several of us have done so. If you would like, pm me and I will give you step by step on how I did mine.

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Dinzag is a great vendor. I am not a basher. I have spent well over $400-500 from Brian and he is top notch.

 

With that said, I would not buy the bolt on retainer for $85. It is very expensive, and honestly, I have not had any luck with either of mine. One on a 5.56 the other an 7.62x39. Both would wiggle and come completely loose during normal range use. One had to be JB-Welded onto the barrel for it to stay put.

 

The reason for that is a normal AK retainer has two "teeth" that stick into grooves in the barrel, and it locks into place with a latch at the top. The Dinzag ones are simply circular and screw on with two screws.

 

Either stick with Saiga handguards, make your own with one of various methods, do the work of pushing off the FSB and GB, or even buy one of the TAPCO galil handguards and use the retainer that comes with it (much more sturdy and less expensive too)

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Thanks both of you gonna try the galil handguard route for now since I was thinking about doing that anyway, but also sending a PM your way mav because I've do a decent amount of conversions and would like to mke that option available for my friends

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Dinzag is a great vendor. I am not a basher. I have spent well over $400-500 from Brian and he is top notch.

 

With that said, I would not buy the bolt on retainer for $85. It is very expensive, and honestly, I have not had any luck with either of mine. One on a 5.56 the other an 7.62x39. Both would wiggle and come completely loose during normal range use. One had to be JB-Welded onto the barrel for it to stay put.

 

The reason for that is a normal AK retainer has two "teeth" that stick into grooves in the barrel, and it locks into place with a latch at the top. The Dinzag ones are simply circular and screw on with two screws.

 

Either stick with Saiga handguards, make your own with one of various methods, do the work of pushing off the FSB and GB, or even buy one of the TAPCO galil handguards and use the retainer that comes with it (much more sturdy and less expensive too)

 

 

I'm anxious to here more about this. I just got started doing some conversions and on this last one I used a Dremel wheel to cut the "teeth" into the barrel. I'm not happy with that approach.

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Either stick with Saiga handguards, make your own with one of various methods, do the work of pushing off the FSB and GB, or even buy one of the TAPCO galil handguards and use the retainer that comes with it (much more sturdy and less expensive too)

 

Is the Tapco handguard heat-shielded?

 

Can someone please send me directions on how to make one with an existing LHG retainer?

 

Thanks.

 

Jim

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If your willing to press the FSB and GB off and notch the top of the barrel for the locking cam on the retainer to work. Otherwise a clamp/bolt will still work with or without the side notches on the barrel.

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If your willing to press the FSB and GB off and notch the top of the barrel for the locking cam on the retainer to work. Otherwise a clamp/bolt will still work with or without the side notches on the barrel.

 

Bummer. So in order to get a proper, solid HG retainer, I've got to go through an ordeal. This is a major drawback of the Saiga platform. Maybe I should get an SGL for my next weapon...

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Anyone else have issues with the Dinzag bolt on LHG retainers? I was about to order one... Would it stay put if you lock tight the screw?

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Anyone else have issues with the Dinzag bolt on LHG retainers? I was about to order one... Would it stay put if you lock tight the screw?

 

I have never had much luck at all with the Dinzag retainers. Two of them slipped right off my guns and led me to try out other solutions. The dinzag one is simply a round clamp that does not utilize either the side locking grooves or a top locking cam. Not to mention it's $85. CSS has one for $29 that is made from a standard AK handguard retainer. Easy to install and if you file a small groove in the top of your barrel it locks down just as a standard AK HGR would.

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Anyone else have issues with the Dinzag bolt on LHG retainers? I was about to order one... Would it stay put if you lock tight the screw?

 

Go with the CSS LHG retainer. They actually lock onto the barrel and won't slip, PLUS, they're $29 and look much better.

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http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-460/Saiga-Lower-Handguard-Bracket/Detail

 

there appears to be a threaded machine screw and nut that passes through the retainer and acts as tensioner, making the hg bracket into a clamp (as well as two cuts in the retainer to allow the bracket to be pulled inward). It looks like it would work... is there a slightly more elegant solution? I just would't want exposed threaded rod/screws/nuts on my Hg retainer.

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Hey thanks guys. The stock handgaurd works but it doesn't look very authentic AK. I would like to go get some plum or wood furniture but the handgaurd + gas tube + LHG retainer... Damn it adds up quick.

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http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-460/Saiga-Lower-Handguard-Bracket/Detail

 

there appears to be a threaded machine screw and nut that passes through the retainer and acts as tensioner, making the hg bracket into a clamp (as well as two cuts in the retainer to allow the bracket to be pulled inward). It looks like it would work... is there a slightly more elegant solution? I just would't want exposed threaded rod/screws/nuts on my Hg retainer.

 

 

It actually fits very flush and is pretty low profile. The threaded machine screw slips on and tightens the side grooves as well, and if you file a notch in the top of the barrel like a regular AK barrel has (it comes with instructions/photo on how to do that) it uses the same 3-point clamping system as a standard AKM hand guard retainer.

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http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-460/Saiga-Lower-Handguard-Bracket/Detail

 

there appears to be a threaded machine screw and nut that passes through the retainer and acts as tensioner, making the hg bracket into a clamp (as well as two cuts in the retainer to allow the bracket to be pulled inward). It looks like it would work... is there a slightly more elegant solution? I just would't want exposed threaded rod/screws/nuts on my Hg retainer.

 

 

It actually fits very flush and is pretty low profile. The threaded machine screw slips on and tightens the side grooves as well, and if you file a notch in the top of the barrel like a regular AK barrel has (it comes with instructions/photo on how to do that) it uses the same 3-point clamping system as a standard AKM hand guard retainer.

 

I bought one of the CSS units and installed it last night. Had to bevel the ears a bit to press it over the barrel (kept popping out of my vise). The screw is relieved so I did not have to cut a barrel notch.

 

I am having a problem with the lower handguard though; the retainer locks up tight and the handguard feels snug until you squeeze the rifle around the handguards. Then the front of the lower handguard pops loose and flops up and down several millimeters. Any ideas how to get it stay put?

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When you put on the lower hand guard retainer, do you push it tightly towards the handguard while tightening the screw?

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When you put on the lower hand guard retainer, do you push it tightly towards the handguard while tightening the screw?

 

Yes, but it still came loose when you squeezed the front of the lower handguard. Also had trouble with the nut not sitting flat against the ear and not having enough pressure to squeeze the ears together. I used my vise to squeeze the ears back to vertical and SNAP! one side snapped along the locking tooth :evil:

 

Guess I'm going to buy the Dinzag retainer... unless there's a superior bolt-on option.

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^^^ i did the same on mine, put it in the vise to squeeze it together, and i dident break it or anything, seems like you tightened down to hard

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^^^ i did the same on mine, put it in the vise to squeeze it together, and i dident break it or anything, seems like you tightened down to hard

 

I didn't squeeze it that hard; just enough to straighten the ears. It looks like metal fatigue from all the bending required to get the ears over the barrel.

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I'd rather not start a new thread so I'll try to get this answered here. Do you guys run slings on these bolt on LHG retainers? Do they ever want to pop off if you drop your rifle to transition to pistol? I want to make sure I get the most secure option available. If that's the stock set up then so be it.

 

Thanks.

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I'd rather not start a new thread so I'll try to get this answered here. Do you guys run slings on these bolt on LHG retainers? Do they ever want to pop off if you drop your rifle to transition to pistol? I want to make sure I get the most secure option available. If that's the stock set up then so be it.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

I made my own several months ago, but its basically the same thing that you would get from CSS. Yes I run a sling on it, no, it hasn't had any problems, its very solid, and has not missed a beat.

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coming back to this thread after starting it with results

 

Mav gave me advice.. I made my own based on his design (I think it winds up being the same as KKs and CSS.. I hated putting a slot in the top of the barrel, but it's REALLY secure and not going anywhere.. My budy in contrast went with dinzags and has been having trouble.. Not to knock dinzag, its a great idea (hell if it worked a bit better it doesn't even require a slit in your gun).. it just doesn't seem to hold.

 

Also the tapco galil handguard retainer was complete fail for me.. slipped if tight, and going a turn tighter destroyed both the original bolt and the one they supplied me with( a free replacement, but with a warning to be more careful).. I bought a replacement bolt made out of stainless steel from ace, but no sling hole so I havn't even bothered tryng it... just fitted it once and was able to make it much tighter.

 

 

All three were tried on 5.45 only.

Edited by volkov

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I've been tinkering with my broken CSS handguard retainer tonight. Even with the cracked ear, I can still bolt it on tight to the barrel. However, the original problem of the front of the lower handguard rocking up and down still exists. It looks like a design flaw since nothing limits upward travel of the lower HG. I found a different design lower HG retainer at Copes Distributing:

 

copes.jpg

 

Note the tabs to retain the lower HG vertically.

 

Now the CSS:

 

CSS.jpg

 

Nothing.

 

I would buy Dinzag's bolt-on, but it appears to have the same problem:

 

Dinzag.jpg

 

I'd really hate to blow $90 on Dinzag's retainer and not have it work any better than the broken part I'm using right now. I think my best bet now would be to buy the Copes part, dremel-fu it like my broken CSS, then anneal it so it doesn't crack during install.

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Damn it adds up quick.

One of the reasons I eventually decided to get an SGL. Comes out about the same anyhow, but you already have everything (or nearly everything) you want from the start.

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It isn't the handguard retainer's outer rim that makes it not rock up and down. The locking bolt/cam and notch in the barrel is what holds it in place paralell to the barrel, and the side grooves are what keep it from rotating. It seems that your handguard itself is what is rocking up and down. The regular AKM wood handguards and most polymer ones, hug the barrel and that is what keeps them from rocking. The wood ones also have a set of tension springs embedded in the front on Soviet style ones. What lower handguard are you using that is rocking up and down? It could possibly be the retainer but also instead the handguard itself.

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