Doug Hartley 526 Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 The US Patent Office approved the paperwork for the R&R Straight Insertion Magwell and it is now officially Patent Pending! Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PRISONSHANK 70 Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Gratz guys! Thats a huge step for your company for sure. By far the fastest mag changes I've seen on a S12 yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Will it or can it be Ambi? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rangerfan1423 2 Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Does the mag release interfer with trigger clearence?...Looks like the mag release is so long that it could interfer with placing your finger back onto the trigger. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Garys4598 1,065 Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 CONGRATULATIONS!!! . . . . . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doug Hartley 526 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Does the mag release interfer with trigger clearence?...Looks like the mag release is so long that it could interfer with placing your finger back onto the trigger. The release is manufactured long so that you can shorten it to the exact length you want. I cut quite a bit off mine. Robert has short fingers and likes his longer. I put a piece of tape on and checked it several times before I cut mine off with a Dremel (don't ya love em!) The little sanding drum cleans it up nice. Here is a picture looking straight down on the left side of my gun and you can see that the release is much farther forward. Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doug Hartley 526 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Will it or can it be Ambi? Both left and right hand versions are available. The guy in our video with the yellow, white and black shirt is left handed and has the south paw version on his gun. Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Donkismash 81 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 surefire or agp mags? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doug Hartley 526 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 surefire or agp mags? Surefire! R&R sells 12 and 20 round versions. Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldandslow 3 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Tell us about the safety. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doug Hartley 526 Posted January 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 The new safety works just like a normal AR safety and is ambidextros. Just flip down and fire. Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blazer76 3 Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) can the safty be used on any ak or is S12 specific? Edited January 9, 2010 by Blazer76 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doug Hartley 526 Posted January 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 can the safty be used on any ak or is S12 specific? Robert checked and says that it would fit any AK style gun that has a Tapco trigger. The plate on the left side of the receiver would have to be removed or releaved to make room for the safety lever. Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RRice 34 Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 (edited) Your magwell really interests me.I looked at the mags you have on your site and it looks like the magwell/mags work a lot like an AR15.Are both lugs removed and a notch installed in the side of the mag to retain it?If so,is this something that is easily done for people who already have Surefires and are looking at your magwell? Also,is there enough room left to use anything other than your trigger guard(like a Tromix trigger guard)? Edited January 10, 2010 by RRice Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doug Hartley 526 Posted January 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 No lugs, the mags go straigt in and are retained by a catch on the side of the magwell, like an AR. The notch in the mag is CNC cut so that it is precise. You can have the cut put in mags that you already have for $8 each plus shipping. I'm pretty sure there would be plenty of room for other trigger guards but if you are interested you could contact Robert, his number is on the website, and he could give you exact measurements. Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Congratulations indeed! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
firsttimer 1 Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Congrats and glad to see y'all on the forum, R&R! Hmm, Should I remove my old magwell in favor of this new one? Or should I just get a second S12? LOL I do, watching the video, like the operation of your new magwell! I'll have to save up for a second S12 I suppose. It never hurts to have more than one, right? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Looks awesome. I'm assuming it just mounts with a couple screws and nuts? Will it be sold as a stand-alone product, or will this be something that would require the receiver to be shipped to you guys? A little off topic, but what type of trigger is that? I don't think I've ever seen an AK trigger shaped like that. But then again, I only have personal experience with G2's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doug Hartley 526 Posted January 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Looks awesome. I'm assuming it just mounts with a couple screws and nuts? Will it be sold as a stand-alone product, or will this be something that would require the receiver to be shipped to you guys? A little off topic, but what type of trigger is that? I don't think I've ever seen an AK trigger shaped like that. But then again, I only have personal experience with G2's. The R&R magwell is fairly easy to install. You have to remove the hump on the bottom of the receiver then drill and tap 3 holes then trim up the opening. If you aren’t comfortable with that R&R will install the magwell for $50 plus shipping. In addition you will need to have the mags modified for the new magwell. R&R will do this on a CNC mill (including trimming off the ribs and attach lugs) for $8 each plus shipping. This is an “at cost” service to customers. The triggers are Tapcos that have been straightened. The one above in Post #6 I did myself and its not that hard. Hit with a torch till red hot, straighten in a vice then use a dremel to clean it up. Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spotkin 0 Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 (edited) I have a few questions. I checked with the US Patent Office (US PTO) and there is absolutely no record of a patent applied for from you guys. Seeing how you are new to the forum and the Saiga market, I am just wondering who you guys are and what is your background. The reason why I checked, is I was curious, just what is so special about your system that is different from any other magwell which utilizes a side mag release. Could you please provide the reference number for the Patent applied for so it can be verified. It is illegal to make that statement if it can not be verified. Plus you have to cut a hole in the side of the magazine. I checked with Surefire and I was informed this would void the warranty on the magazine since it penetrates the wall of the magazine. How many rounds can I expect before magazine failure? Also, do I understand you correctly I will have to cut off the "hump" (Magazine release bosses/ears)on the bottom of the receiver?? So, if I don't like the magwell, I am totally screwed, since I can not go back to rock N lock. I am interested in the magwell, but there may be more negatives than positives here. Edited January 16, 2010 by spotkin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doug Hartley 526 Posted January 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Thank you for your interest in R&R Target's products. You have some very good and pointed questions that I will attempt to answer here. R&R's Patent Attorney has filed the paperwork, under the name Robert Wright (owner of R&R), and has advised him that he is Patent Pending. This attorney specializes in Patent work and advised Robert that he could put "Patent Pending" on his magwells. I have a call into him to get the reference number from the Patent Office. I will post it here when I receive it. As for cutting on any product, if you take a Dremel to something, you will have trouble getting getting warranty work done. As for MTBF, I think that is what you are wanting, there has not been a single failure of any magazine modifed for this magwell and we have fired over 1000 rounds with some of them. The reason is that this magwell provides support all the way around the top of the magazine unlike any other Saiga Magwell (notice how long it is in the photos above). This was one of the primary reasons that Robert designed this magwell, to provide additional support so that he could make extended magazines that hold 20 rounds. On the R&R magwell, since the magazine has so much support, the mag catch only keeps the mag from falling out. There is little other stress on it. This should translate to longer usefull magazine life. As with most plastic magazines, the feed lips will probably wear out long before the mag catch breaks. Cutting your Saiga is something else, think long and hard before you make a change that you can't reverse. I have taken a Dremel to some of my own custom pistols that cost far more than any Saiga. But if you make the decision to cut, you have to take the consequences. If you have doubts or reservations, get a professional to help, have them do it for you or just don't do it. As for who we are, R&R Targets (R&R Racing) has been in the target manufacturing business for over 14 years and most 3 gun shooters will be familier with R&R products. R&R has sold products to numerous government agencies and is the exclusive target supplier for FNH USA. We will be shooting at many of the large 3 gun matches in the US this year, let us know where you live and you could probably meet us at one of these matches and try out one of our guns. In addition, we will be at the SHOT SHOW next week in Las Vegas, if you are there stop by Booth #13876 and see us. We will have 7 modified Saigas there in various configurations. If you have any other questions about R&R products, feel free to give Robert a call, his phone number is on the website. Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spotkin 0 Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Thank you for your interest in R&R Target's products. You have some very good and pointed questions that I will attempt to answer here. R&R's Patent Attorney has filed the paperwork, under the name Robert Wright (owner of R&R), and has advised him that he is Patent Pending. This attorney specializes in Patent work and advised Robert that he could put "Patent Pending" on his magwells. I have a call into him to get the reference number from the Patent Office. I will post it here when I receive it. As for cutting on any product, if you take a Dremel to something, you will have trouble getting getting warranty work done. As for MTBF, I think that is what you are wanting, there has not been a single failure of any magazine modifed for this magwell and we have fired over 1000 rounds with some of them. The reason is that this magwell provides support all the way around the top of the magazine unlike any other Saiga Magwell (notice how long it is in the photos above). This was one of the primary reasons that Robert designed this magwell, to provide additional support so that he could make extended magazines that hold 20 rounds. On the R&R magwell, since the magazine has so much support, the mag catch only keeps the mag from falling out. There is little other stress on it. This should translate to longer usefull magazine life. As with most plastic magazines, the feed lips will probably wear out long before the mag catch breaks. Cutting your Saiga is something else, think long and hard before you make a change that you can't reverse. I have taken a Dremel to some of my own custom pistols that cost far more than any Saiga. But if you make the decision to cut, you have to take the consequences. If you have doubts or reservations, get a professional to help, have them do it for you or just don't do it. As for who we are, R&R Targets (R&R Racing) has been in the target manufacturing business for over 14 years and most 3 gun shooters will be familier with R&R products. R&R has sold products to numerous government agencies and is the exclusive target supplier for FNH USA. We will be shooting at many of the large 3 gun matches in the US this year, let us know where you live and you could probably meet us at one of these matches and try out one of our guns. In addition, we will be at the SHOT SHOW next week in Las Vegas, if you are there stop by Booth #13876 and see us. We will have 7 modified Saigas there in various configurations. If you have any other questions about R&R products, feel free to give Robert a call, his phone number is on the website. Doug Doug, Thanks much for the quick reply. I apologize for being cynical, but having been in a manufacturing/patent related business for most my professional career, I just don't see the cost effectiveness of paying todays cost to patent a product in relation to potential sales. This is such a small market, especially with regards to magazine wells. I just don't see you recouping your initial investment. I will wait and see how they develope. I wish you guys the best and may the political winds blow in our favor. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfighteruk 6 Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 I had a JD original magwell fitted ( Agp mag type ) , will your magwell fit in the holes allready drilled ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doug Hartley 526 Posted January 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 I had a JD original magwell fitted ( Agp mag type ) , will your magwell fit in the holes allready drilled ? The new magwell uses 4 holes instead of three like the old designs. I had the same question at the Shot Show. The rear two holes are the same, but two new holes will need to be drilled and tapped for the front. Doug This is the bottom of the receiver prepped for Magwell installation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
buckmeister 11 Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Now make an AR mg adapter to fill the void left by MSA. It could be a permanent adapter, replacing the AK mag release. It could even use a stock AR mag release and button; any of the ambi-mag releases could be used, thus eliminating the need to reinvent the wheel. A Remington 7615 mag release would lower the button, but prevent the use of an after market ambi-release. buckmeister Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doug Hartley 526 Posted January 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Now make an AR mg adapter to fill the void left by MSA. It could be a permanent adapter, replacing the AK mag release. It could even use a stock AR mag release and button; any of the ambi-mag releases could be used, thus eliminating the need to reinvent the wheel. A Remington 7615 mag release would lower the button, but prevent the use of an after market ambi-release. buckmeister Good ideas, I'll forward this to Robert. Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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